TEMP./OUTPUT/CARBON FILTER EFFECTS PROOF?????

[confederatecondenser]

Hello,
First post here. I have a few questions I hope you can help with. I have made several some-what successful runs with my still. I am using a 13 gal ss boiler under a reflux tower set up as a pot still. I have the tower lightly packed with copper mesh, I heat with a gas burner. I am after "whiskey with a touch of grain flavor". So far, my first run in my opinion has been my best tasting. It came off of a no cook corn and sugar wash at about 60%, one run. My out-put volume seemed low, I think it was about 1.5 lt of hearts on a 37 liter run. I had two more runs from the grain/backset that were also good flavor but low output. I decided to try something different on the next round to improve my return volume. I would like you to trouble shoot my process if you would. It was my first attempt at a thin mash/cooked recipe. I increased the ingredients in proportion from the original recipe so I could make three runs when it was fermented. The flavor was good on the first run but I did not see any improvement on output. With 2/3 of the wash remaining I added bakers yeast (I WAS OUT OF THE GOOD STUFF) and nutrient to what was left in the fermenter in hopes of increasing alcohol.It started working again but nothing vigorous. That was last night and this is where I am at.
Here is what was done:

25# Sugar
27# CORN MEAL
5# BARLEY MALT
36 GAL WATER ph 5.5

Bring ten gallons of water to a boil.
Put corn meal and 1/2 # of malted barley into fermentation barrel.
Dump hot boiling water in with the corn and barley.
Stir until lumps are gone.
Let stand for 30 min.
Add room temp. water to the mash until temp. is 155 deg F ( about 4 gal.).
Add remainder of malt (4.5 #) and stir.
Let stand for 90 min.
During the 90 min. wait,I warmed 3-4 gal. of water in a separate pot to dissolve the sugar in.
After 90 min. I added remainder of room temp. water (36 gallons all total, including the sugar water).
When adding the cool water I let it drop several feet into the mash to create turbulence allowing aeration.
Next time I may add ice water because I still had to let it stand 12 hrs to cool to pitching temp.
After 12 hrs it was right below 90 F so I added 1 oz of dry big daddy yeast from mid-west right out of the packet.
It was a slow start so 10 hrs into the ferment I added some commercial nutrient and it fermented vigorously for 60 hrs. then slowed.
It was then that I made the first ten gallon run.

Question #1 What should I change about what I an doing?

Question #2 I am not getting distillate out-put until my temp. at the top of my colum is about 197 F (91.5 C). At about 205 F ( 96 C ) my alcohol levels are low and I make my end cut. These temps. are well above every thing I have been reading.I am 300 feet above sea level. Am I doing something wrong here?

Question #3 I set up a carbon filter to experiment with. It is a pyrex tube 48" long with I.D. of 2". One end is capped with filter paper and its filled with activated carbon. I ran some 60 % hooch thru it and it came out too smooth and testing at 30%. What the hell????? I have not read anything about carbon robbing alcohol.

Please throw this dog a bone and help me out a bit here. Thank you. CC

[Dnderhead]

First do not add any malt until it has cooled to 155f,your deactivating enzymes,you should have at least 10%, better 20% malt to git conversion.
(And has to be cracked)

next,, you did not say what your still was, if it is a pot still, that temperature "78.3c" wont hold up that is for a reflux still.

if it is a pot still ,you wont git high ABV unless you run real slow,then not much, it will start off fairly high then tapper off as you progress.
if it is a pot still,, do a stripping run, then rerun a spirits run. some do 3 runs.

if doing for flavor DO NOT use carbon. carbon will strip out flavors.

[rubber duck]

#1 as Dunder said adding the malt at a proper temp is critical. The 1/2lb you added during you cooking is fine that will make it more manageable. 20% malt will work if you do everything right, I use 30% 2row and I add malt when the temp on the corn drops to 150f. That brings my mash temp down to 145-148. We could debate mash temps all day long but using more malt will help your yield.

If all that you doing is adding boiling water to corn meal for 30 minutes your not getting the corn meal cooked properly. What would work better is adding the corn meal to you pot of boiling water, bringing the corn mash to a boil and then dumping the whole mess into your fermenter. With proper insulation this should give you at least 2 or 3 hours of 180f+ cooking.

The biggest mistake I see new folks make is not cooking the corn properly.

Bakers yeast is perfectly acceptable I use it as a baseline in recipe development. Also one packet of yest pitched directly into the fermenter is going to give you a slow start, try making a starter.

#2 Do a double run. I have no experience running a reflux still as a pot but you low abv output is not surprising.


#3 I don't know much about carbon filtering but you don't want to do it on whiskey.

RD

[Usge]

Could be a couple things here. One is...low abv wash/mash gonna start coming off at higher temp (the temp of vapor rises as the alc is depleted...see main site for theory). That also means your over all yield is going to be relative/ low(er). So, part of this is learning what to expect.

In a thin-mash...you mash the grains for some conversion/flavor, but then you thin it with water/sugar to boost the alc. You can do that in any combination you want...ie., more grain mash, less sugar, etc...but if you do...you have to make sure you get the proper conversion out of your grains or your yield is gonna fall.
I've found with fine ground corn meal (which tends to burn in the pot), that it can be cooked inside the fermenter if you use enough boiling water and time.
After yo've made your "paste' and smoothed out lumps...let it sit over night and swell up good. Then thin it with boiling water, and stir, leaving it to sit for 45 mins to an hour...then repeat..until you've got basically a thinned out, yellowish, cloudy soup broth. When that cools to 150, toss in your malt and cover it. Leave it for several hours (or next day). Then top up with your sugar/water. That should get you more in the ball park.

On top of that, single runs typically never had the yield of double run for obvious reasons (ie., there is just less alc to start with to be extracted).

[confederatecondenser]

[quote]next,, you did not say what your still was, if it is a pot still, that temperature "78.3c" wont hold up that is for a reflux still./quote]

IT'S A REFLUX COLUM W/ ONLY THE CONDENSER HOOKED TO WATER FLOW, OPERATING AS A POT STILL. This explains much of my confusion. I did not realize the two operated on different temps.

[quote]What would work better is adding the corn meal to you pot of boiling water, bringing the corn mash to a boil and then dumping the whole mess into your fermenter. With proper insulation this should give you at least 2 or 3 hours of 180f+ cooking.
/quote]
I will try doing it this way. I prefer to use yellow grits but could find none so I went with the meal.I assume your advice will work for the grits also?

[quote]On top of that, single runs typically never had the yield of double run for obvious reasons/quote]

If I collect the entire first run and lets say, get an average of 50% alcohol, shouldn't I dilute this down before re-running it?

CAN ANYONE EXPLAIN WHY MY PROOF (ACCORDING TO MY HYDROMETER) WENT DOWN BY 50% WHEN I CARBON FILTERED MY HOOCH???

I know you say I shouldn't filter whiskey and I believe you. I liked the flavor before I filtered it and afterwards the flavor was stripped, but what disturbed me more is I could taste very little alcohol. This is the reason I re-tested it and found out that was not the brightest idea I had that day! My hooch had little flavor and less active ingredient. I found it odd that out of all the reading I have been doing on this I could not recall ever reading that carbon can lower the proof. Or does the filtered product trick the hydrometer some how?

Thanks for all the help. I know you all have better things to do and I appreciate your time. CC

[Dnderhead]

try to answer some,I do not use activated charcoal but my guess whould be that the carbon absorb/held the alcohol and not the water thus lower proof.
why I say you git less with one run is that you have to take bigger cuts,therefore there's less you "keep"

cracked corn/meal/grits all the same but the grind. to coarse and it is hard to cook,to fine and it clumps. so most take the middle.

yes if you want to run 50% agin, diluted to 40% this is for safety reasons. If your out in the "bush or bad lands" and it is not going to hurt anything
but an old shack and no F.D.P. will be called go for whatever you want. also if you have a internal element that has to be kept covered.