So HD, How do YOU carbon filter?

[Intoxicated]

Hey Guys

This is something that has confused me greatly. A lot of people here carbon filter their shine, or so I have read. I put off from buying a carbon filter because I cannot find any that are not plastic, and according to everyone here, plastic is the devil . This has put me off of the vodka's that come in plastic bottles.

I know that very high proofs of alcohol are dangerous for plastics, but is there a dilution point where there is zero or next to zero problems with the plastic? On the parent site I see a guide about someone placing their spirits in a container which I can only assume is plastic, into a soft drink bottle (Plastic?), and into the filter which is plastic by the looks of it.

Underneath is a picture of spirits going through plastic tubing from a fermenting vessel into a carbon filter, which appears to be plastic.

I hope this post doesn't rub anyone the wrong way, I am just having a hard time figuring out filtering and plastics. I am running out of glass bottles for my shine, and would really like to setup a carbon filter unit instead of soaking the likker in carbon.

Does anyone use an inline filtering unit? Or does everyone just soak it? Any guilty plastic users?

Cheers guys

Intoxicated

[blanikdog]

intoxicated,
Some do indeed carbon filter - whether it's using plastic or not, I don't know - but I certainly wouldn't. That's just me.

I doubt that anyone here would condone using plastic, but - as I have said many times before - we live in a so called democracy, so you are free to poison yourself in any manner you wish. However, I believe that you will find very few in here who will condone the use of plastics in high abv situations.

A bit of advice from an old bastard, ignore the pics that you will find on the internet and don't assume anything on the internet. On the other hand, you can ignore what we suggest about using plastics before they are proven to be safe, it's your funeral.

In regard to your second question, I am certainly not a plastic user!

I will move now this post into the topic in which it should be:- "Safety and Related Issues". You will find the answers you seek you seek there.

[LWTCS]

Actually, I don't think alot of people here do carbon filter.

[Intoxicated]

I was under the impression a lot of people do. Sorry, I must have made the wrong assumption.

I am a bit iffy with using plastics now, before I was blissfully ignorant of the use of plastics in home distilling.

I'm just trying to make my spirits more neutral, and I am trying to use Carbon for that. I have a few bottles on carbon at the moment in glass bottles, but I want to flow it through instead of letting it soak for a few weeks. People who have tried my distillate have said that there is nothing wrong with it, but I think they are just being kind, which bugs me. It has a sweet smell to it compared to the smell of vodka, and I'm dead set on ridding it from my shine.

I was looking at getting a big glass Demijohn for carbon treating, but I can't really afford to buy more toys for my hobby at this time. I've bought quite a lot in the past month.

I don't think I have many options here.

Cheers for the replies fellas

Intoxicated

[Husker]

Carbon filtering is not needed, IF you run the still the proper speed (and have a quality still you know how to drive) AND you make proper conservative cuts.

If your product has a sweet smell, then it sounds like you have not properly cut out all of the esters in the first place. You will be much better served, to get the still to make the product right for you in the first place, and not trying to squeeze out more than what you should, and then hiding it by carbon filtering out the odors. That carbon filtering will not remove the bad stuff, it will just mask it.

Keep in mind, that a majority of the bad effects (i.e. headaches, hang overs, etc), come from these other unwanted compounds being in the drink. The only way to get them out is with the still, and only removing product when it is 'clean' pure ethanol (if making vodka). Now, pure ethanol/water 'will' give you a hang over, but you have to drink quite a bit of it. If the ethanol is clean enough, you can get pretty lit up, and still wake up the next morning feeling fine. However, if the ethanol is not clean, but contains small parts of acetone, ethyl acetate, or other esters, then if you get pretty good and drunk, expect to wake up not feeling very good. Hell, for me, if it has some of that trash in it, I actually get a nasty headache after just a few drinks.

H.

[myles]

To be honest with you (my personal opinion is that) the concept of carbon filtering probably came from the same people that support the use of the plastic bucket inside bucket still. These monstrosities do not use any cuts at all and produce a distilled spirit that is so contaminated with nasties that you NEED to carbon filter it.

Could be wrong.

For sure though, with a good still that is run properly you will never need carbon at all.

[ScottishBoy]

You want to treat the Internet as legend...
the Parent site as lore...
and the discussion groups the best of all current knowledge.

We have limited ability to change the parent site so there may be old information there. The use of plastics is always a hot topic and has been widely contested. In the end, proof was never delivered about available commercial plastics being safe. Some Industrial and chemical grade formulations MAY be safe, but they are prohibitively expensive and not easy to come by. People go blind from storing alcohol in containers not designed for it. Other sickness can easily follow.

Try this: take a salsa jar or baby food jar and drop some 70% in it. Then drop a piece of commercially available hose into it and let it sit for a while. Open and take a nice sniff. If the cloudiness doesnt put you off, then the smell should. Whatever you do, DO NOT DRINK IT.

Carbon filtering I have heard of and seen done, but I can think of any reason to do it. Like it has been said before, good cuts and a "low and slow" attitude towards your makins will show you what a fine process it can be.
This may piss some people off(and Im sorry if it does), but I always looked at carbon filtering as sort of cheating. If you need to carbon filter, then you are either using the wrong wash, running too fast or being to greedy with your cuts.

Try running a painfully slow run with a very high reflux ratio and small containers. I bet you find that hidden in the middle is some great stuff that would be degraded by carbon filtering.

[kiwistiller]

I've seen a really nice stainless carbon rig. I will probably make one out of copper tube when I get around to it, just for further scrubing neutral for gin purposes, and cleaning up errors to go into the neutral keg.

[Ayay]

Carbon will remove smells and tastes, but none of the bad alcohols. Running the product through the still again will give you another chance to do it right and fix any cutting mistakes.

For pure flavourless vodka you need the smoothest cleanest product to start with, then use carbon to remove any tastes that get through. Tastes come from the ingedients of the brew including the yeasts. The tastes are mostly worth keeping, but some people demand zero taste as well as super smooth and super clean.

The turbo-whallas need carbon just to be able to get it down!

[Ayay]

And how to carbon? I find that soaking in a glass container for a few weeks is best. After the finest dust has settled rack the clear liquid off and throw the sediments away. Time is priceless; buying time with money is not the same.

[ScottishBoy]

I have revaluated how I am thinking about the carbon filtering.
Having done very little running for pure nuetrals, I would have to say that if I needed a really pure nuetral...I guess I would.

Mostly, I do whiskey, so Im out mowing and thinking "If I was going to do a top shelf somethin somethin like Strawberry Panty Dropper...then wouldnt I want to start with totally top shelf nuetral? The female nose being the most delicate and easy to offend, wouldnt I want to totally strip anything bad? When it comes right down to it, that Carbon Filtering may be the extra something that turns an "A drink" into an "A+ drink". I am after that extra percentage that sets our craft above and beyond the factory product."

Two snakes and 3/4 of an acre later I have come to the following conclusions:'
1. I would probably never use it for whiskeys, rums or burbons, but I should keep myself open to any idea that helps me create quality drink.
2. Nuetrals could sometimes use this treatment and I should be open to the idea of making a totally clean, devoid of flavor alcohol for use as a base.
3. If I was to do it, It would be with a carbon type specifically designed to filter spirits and in either a glass or SS setup to minimize interactions. Most likely glass.

Sorry if it seems like Im waffling on this, but I find as I get older, I enjoy myself more if I remain open to the possibilities. Seems like I had kinda just "decided without examining the issue with the attention it is due."
Thats a bad thing in my book.

So..Yes. On those rare occasions where I want to make a perfectly nuetral base, I think I might, but only if I can keep it all in a non reactive container such as glass or ( maybe) SS. Plastic or any other reactionary metals or substances I would avaoid like the proverbial plague.
SB

[Intoxicated]

Sorry I haven't been replying. I had to go digging for this post.

Thank you for your replies. I have to say ScottishBoy, I respect your attitude. Most people wouldn't change their mind once they have made it up, even if they never put much thought into it in the first place (Not saying you haven't, just general statement). I appreciate your input greatly.

As far as cuts go, I am quite new to reflux distilling. I was following the manual I received with my still unit, and stopped taking cuts after 1'C had passed. I started at 75.8'C and finished at 76.9'C. I was taking 'cuts' in 700ml bottles, which I know is silly, but I didn't have many bottles. I was smelling it as it came out, trying to smell the difference in cuts, but It all smelt the same.

I have drank a good amount of it, and the next morning I hardly had any hangover at all. First time in a while I've managed to get out of bed easily after 12+ standards. I get hangovers really easy, but I can drink an extraordinary amount of booze.. I trust drunk self to be considerate of sober self, and stop drinking (I don't normally drink more than 6 standards anymore, I'm pretty tame).

When you mean running it 'slow', what do you mean by that?

I honestly wasn't really planning on using Carbon at all, but I've been desperately trying to make a product that I am happy with.. I'm not that easy to please it seems. I am buying a good set of jars tomorrow, and I'll distill my next lot, and take the proper 'cuts'. If I have any problems, I'll run it through again at 40%. All fails, I'll air it out.

Cheers

Intoxicated

PS: It is currently 4:30am, haven't been able to sleep, so if I have said anything wrong just keep in mind I am half asleep at the time of writing this .

[ScottishBoy]

Slow gives it all time to sort out in the column and everyone settles in nicely. Bad stuff on top, then worse, then a little better then best. then back down the other side. Slow also refers to how much/fast you take off. When a colum is equalized its a lot like shaking up a bottle of dirt and water. Heavier stuff goes to the bottom, lighter to the top, but you can see the layers. It takes a while for these to reach this state because they all have boiling temps that are right next to each other. Sometimes as much as an hour or two with no changes to the heat or temp. You want to take off only enough per minute so you DONT disrupt the columns nicely settled pattern. IF taken off slowly enough, then everything stays in its settled layer and they each get taken off in their proper order.

Check out the new distillers section and the Column distillers sections for prime examples of runs and how they look.

PS. I have a case of jelly jars that I use to collect. Keeps me honest. You have to remember to dilute your tastings. I use 1 to 1 to bring out the real flavors.

[kiwistiller]

Two snakes and 3/4 of an acre later I have come to the following conclusions:'
1. I would probably never use it for whiskeys, rums or burbons, but I should keep myself open to any idea that helps me create quality drink.
2. Nuetrals could sometimes use this treatment and I should be open to the idea of making a totally clean, devoid of flavor alcohol for use as a base.
3. If I was to do it, It would be with a carbon type specifically designed to filter spirits and in either a glass or SS setup to minimize interactions. Most likely glass.

+1. especially point one. For drinking neutral, I don't like it. It tends to create a boring vodka - This is why my favourite neutral wash is DWWG - you get a good hint of wheat in your 95+, and it is very smooth without being watery after dilution. However, the only thing neutral base product other than plain vodka that I want that for is my gin. All the liqueurs, I'd rather have a blank slate.

You have to remember to dilute your tastings. I use 1 to 1 to bring out the real flavors.

Oh come on, now I have to go -1. We're even now

seriously though, I find 30% to be a pretty good spot for cutting / sampling / blending - I dilute 1:2 as a result.

[Sword_Of_Ginger]

So has no one actually done some research on the BEST POSSIBLE plastic container to use to attach a carbon snake through?? Looking for more info on storing 40% alcohol in plastic while it runs through the carbon snake for 24-36 hours into a glass carboy.

(**Keep in mind I would never store liquor in plastic for the long term! -Only short term (24-36 hours) while running through the carbon, for the batches I actually will run through carbon.)

Better Bottles you get at your LHBS, commercial plastic vodka bottles, and your typical PET bottles are rated a 1; the white fermenter buckets (generally for wine) are rated 2; translucent fermenter buckets (like the 30L you use for beer) are rating a 5, as are most food grade storage plastics (protein powder, margarine). Opaque plastic carboys are probably not safe because they don't even have a rating and are known to lead to oxidization in wine after several months storage.

If you Wiki the different plastic ratings, it looks like 1 and 5 plastics are the safest to use. Opinions?

Would I really be better off to just dump some activated charcoal into a glass vessel and soak the vodka rather than run it through a snake? How long to let it sit- a week?

[Sword_Of_Ginger]

*UPDATE*

Has anyone used the Still Spirits EZ Filter? Any feedback? Thanks again all.

[Coaster]

@ Sword_Of_Ginger,

Suggest reviewing The Rules by Which We Live and note rule #8 - usage of plastics/ synthetics in distilling. ->

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... =35&t=5090

The Still Spirits EZ Filter is manufacture of plastic components.

Also if you use one of the mash wash recipes listed in the ‘Tried and True Recipes’ and operate your Still correctly there is no reason to need to use any type of Carbon filtering.

Regards,
Coaster

[heartcut]

The closest I'll get to carbon filtering is pouring something I've messed up through some charred wood chips in a coffee filter. Sometimes that works, but most of the time I still end up re-running it. I wouldn't even trust the carbon that's sold online for filtering drink, never mind the plastic holders.

[zouthernborne]

I've been setting my well used oak chunks on fire and using them for filtering along with about 3 coffee filters. Does a fantastic job, but I like that somehow it leaves a hint of my rum on the back of the neutral..

[newbyprepper1970]

I do not, nor have I ever tried it, but... You could build a carbon filter very easily using a 3-4 foot long piece of copper pipe, activated carbon that you can buy at a pet store, and a ss steel scrubber you tucked into the bottom of the pipe. Give it a shot it cant hurt you. Oh make sure you rinse your carbon it will contain fines that will gray the product.

[Maritimer]

Here is a quote from The Compleat Distiller, 2nd ed, p41:

It pays to be very careful in choosing the source and type of activated carbon you use to clean spirits. Aquarium carbon will NOT do! This is a cheap mixture of many sorts of charcoal that may remove some of the congeners from the spirit, but also introduce nasty trace elements and flavours of its own. Fish don't mind, but you will! ...

[newbyprepper1970]

Well so much for offering my thoughts on that subject I guess i will shut up now. Sorry about that.

[Ayay]

Whoa newbyprepper, nothing to be sorry for! Fishtank activated carbon works if the soaking period is quick as you describe in your method. My method is a long soak by putting some activated carbon into a glass container of high proof and letting it sit for a week. This is where fishtank carbon falls short, it works if less than a week, but not for more than a week because it begins to give out stuff on it's own, stuff that is soluble in alc and not in water. Brewshop activated carbon for cleaning high-proof costs a little more, it's designed for a long soak of many weeks...the longer the better.

Filtering out the fine dust in the finished product can be done by letting it sit for a day or two. When the dust has settled, siphon off the top layer of clear liquid. Throw what's left (the dust and bottom layers) into the 'settlins' bottle...after many throws there will be another quantity of clear liquid to siphon off.

[Rivver]

Mile-Hi sells activated carbon for use with filtering. I tried it once using my reflux column and 7-8 coffee filters hose clamped on the bottom. To me, it's a waste of time. While it may work for pulling any off flavors out of neutral, it strips the flavors out of a whiskey or rum, IMO. I'll never use it again.