Shinners Flute build.

[Samohon]

Sorry to interrupt this well intention of a great built.

It can be calculated the area of perforation but one thing I want to leave: any liquid has a certain tension, alcohol has a few viscosity.

That for, in my opinion it is better to have the holes smaller but moe of 'em.

I worked with perforated plates in my "Apollo" still, the material has been very fine (very, very small holes), I saw the result of OD, no plates works if they have no liquid, just take that in account.

I don't wanna be a "I know all", but I did it that way and that works well.

Kentuckky, I just don't want to hear you reporting that only the last one or two plates bubble.

Joe

Hi Joe, so does that mean that the current 3.13% of holes KS has on his plates will cause the still to only bubble on certain plates?
Would it be beneficial to increase the coverage of holes on the plates to 10% making the holes smaller?
Last but not least, what is the optimum size of hole IYO to get this baby firing on all cylinders (plates)?

A minimum pressure must be maintained in the still or the liquid on the plate will "dump". Dumping occurs when the pressure holding the liquid on the plate drops far enough to allow the liquid to fall through the holes and down to the next lower plate. This stops distillation,

Could this be a possibility why only the last one or tw plates would bubble?

Thanks man...

[Kentucky shinner]

gawd dang how deep is the coller on that 4x2?

I have a buddy that has a lathe I thought about taking it to him and have it cut down... I bought this one off ebay. I am hoping the ones I ordered from Pex Supply are much lighter. Hell I could get 20 bucks out of this think for scap.. It feels like it weighs 5 pound I swear. I will use it on the bottom... It'l keep it from taking off.. Like ole Popcorn says," If you dont lay that big rock on top of that cap hell it blow plum to the top on them trees yonder"

[olddog]

From my experience running the Flute with sight glasses, I am able to observe the action of the plates, at the start of the run all but the bottom plates bubble, as the run progresses the lower plates turn themselves off in sequence, until at the end of the run only the top two plates are bubbling, I am assuming that this is the reaction as the different levels of alcohol are removed.


OD

[Samohon]

30% being the maximum in theory, but you have to take into account the power of your boiler to suuport this, and also allow for the leakage around the edge of the plates, considering that I am using a 50lt keg with a 2"outlet, driving a 4"column, the hole placement and size work for me,
OD

Remembering that 30% is the maximum hole coverage in theory, heat source, leakage on the edges of the plates, would'nt it be a case of trial and error to find the optimum hole size and coverage area? Or is there a mathematical solution to finding out how many holes/size to our problem...?

Also, can the plates be made with a small lip around the edge to help compensate for this?

[Samohon]

From my experience running the Flute with sight glasses, I am able to observe the action of the plates, at the start of the run all but the bottom plates bubble, as the run progresses the lower plates turn themselves off in sequence, until at the end of the run only the top two plates are bubbling, I am assuming that this is the reaction as the different levels of alcohol are removed.
OD

Ah yes, the stacking order of different alcohols being withdrawn cause the plates to stop bubbling in sequence...

Would still like to know the math behind this if you have it OD/Joe....

[Kentucky shinner]

My plates fit really tight. You really have to work to get the plate tree in the column. I worked pretty hard on getting the plates just the right size diameter. They are really snug. If you had a lathe you could bolt them all together and make them a perfect fit. I may have a buddy that can do that for me if I want to later. I am going ahead with what I have right now.

[Mr.Spooky]

From my experience running the Flute with sight glasses, I am able to observe the action of the plates, at the start of the run all but the bottom plates bubble, as the run progresses the lower plates turn themselves off in sequence, until at the end of the run only the top two plates are bubbling, I am assuming that this is the reaction as the different levels of alcohol are removed.


OD

have you compaired the ABV as the plates turn themselfs off? if so, can you predict when they are getting redy to turn off, or is there no pattern?
thanks oh, also, do you think that the reason for the bottom plates not bubbling might be because of their placement (closer to the boiler). i wander if you was to hang a gin basket in your boiler, but close to the 2" takeoff, if this might help. you know, something to restrict or solw down the vapors before they hit the lower plates with such force?

[rednose]

Let me try to explain this a little further.

The calc of 30% of OD is taken of a web site that talks obout a very big sized still but theoretical you should be able to size it down.

I used a perforated SS material where you almost don't see the holes but you can look through and that one permits that the vapor comes through but the liquid don't fall down at any event (temp difference).

I was able to send a certain quantity of water (less vecosity as alcohol, Sorry, typed bad, it's moe viscoisity) which stayed there without falling back but doing the same with 90% ABV it fall down without upcoming vapor.

I didn't use this technic in my twins (I used bubble plates) as I wanted to make sure that the plates work at any time.

I can shut down the Dephlagmator at 50% ABV in tails (almost at the end of the run) and it will fall direct to 25% ABV.

Joe

[Samohon]

My plates fit really tight. You really have to work to get the plate tree in the column. I worked pretty hard on getting the plates just the right size diameter. They are really snug. If you had a lathe you could bolt them all together and make them a perfect fit. I may have a buddy that can do that for me if I want to later. I am going ahead with what I have right now.

Yeah, good thinkin KS, just do it an see how she performs.
I think keeping it close to OD's specs will give you the same results he enjoy's at the moment...

[Samohon]

Let me try to explain this a little further.

The calc of 30% of OD is taken of a web site that talks obout a very big sized still but theoretical you should be able to size it down.

I used a perforated SS material where you almost don't see the holes but you can look through and that one permits that the vapor comes through but the liquid don't fall down at any event (temp difference).

I was able to send a certain quantity of water (less vecosity as alcohol) which stayed there without falling back but doing the same with 90% ABV it fall down without upcoming vapor.

I didn't use this technic in my twins (I used bubble plates) as I wanted to make sure that the plates work at any time.

I can shut down the Dephlagmator at 50% ABV in tails (almost at the end of the run) and it will fall direct to 25% ABV.

Joe

Thanks Joe, thats cleared everything up, on with the show....

[rednose]

Thanks Joe, thats cleared everything up, on with the show....

Want some popcorn?

Just try to get it clear.
Joe

[olddog]

One possible reason that my bottom plate does not bubble is that when my boiler reaches boiling point the dephlagmater is in full cooling mode, I leave it like this for up to 10 minutes to stack the still, reflux operaters with VM LM type stills leave for 1/2 hour, due to my restrictive water supply I cannot wait that long otherwise I would have hot water instead of cooling water. If I could wait for the full 1/2 perhaps the bottom plate would operate. The ideal supply is like LWTCS has where he has an independant supply for each condenser and just pulls the water from his well, unfortunately I don't have that luxury as I am restricted to a 60 litre garbage container and have to recirculate the water.


OD

[Samohon]

Thanks Joe, thats cleared everything up, on with the show....

Want some popcorn?

Just try to get it clear.
Joe

Got my own popcorn in a glass Joe, more like cracked corn....
Over ice ofcoarse....

[Kentucky shinner]

Water is no problem for me here. When I get this build finished we will find out how it does after 30min. of full reflux.

[Mr.Spooky]

Well I did not get much done last night. I was sipping on some really good home made sweet feed whisky... and I am to a point I can to much until I get my the rest of my fittings. Here is what I did get done before I decided I better quit before I was to intoxicated and really screwed something up. I worked on my graham condenser a little. I tried olddogs polishing tricks and did a quiky I am sure when I do the finish polishing its gonna be real SHINNY LOL....

by looking at the first pic, it looks like the fitting is about 10" tall,,,,,,,or did you cut down the 4"?
spooky

[Kentucky shinner]

here ya go spooky maybe this will give you a better idea of the size. It is 5" tall and it has not been cut down. I would cut it down with my hack saw but I am sure I will not be able to cut it nice and square. Its gonna take lots of solder for these damn things.

[olddog]

Why bother, it will make a nice solid base for the column.


OD

[Kentucky shinner]

good point OD... you are right.

[Mr.Spooky]

thanks! that copper is shining up quiet nicely. im looking forward to when you do your sight glasses. do you think that when you get your sightglasses mounted, they will be flush with the inside, or do you think that they will protrude? the reason i ask is that i want to make my plate tree removeable, and if there is no way of making the sightglasses flush on the inside,,, there will be no way of pulling the plates past them.
thanks!

[olddog]

You would have to contour the back of the sight glasses to fit the column, I didn't bother as my plates are permanently fixed, and I fitted the glasses after the plates went in.


OD

[Mr.Spooky]

guess you could just weld them in with a minium protruding, and then stick your arm down in there with a dremel tool and finish them up.... on second thought, if that dremel got out of your hand, that would be like sticking your arm in a coon filled tote sack.
ouch!

[Kentucky shinner]

The reason I have not stated mounting my sight glasses yet is exactly what your talking about. I am trying to decide if I want to contour the back of them or not. I am still thinking on this one. I may try to contour one tonight. I would like to make it so If I needed to I could go back without to much work and replace my plates if I ever wanted to.

[Mr.Spooky]

i think that it would be a good thing to do while you have them out. even if you dont decide to remove anything now, you might down the road.
spooky

[rednose]

Got my own popcorn in a glass Joe, more like cracked corn....
Over ice ofcoarse....

Someone ever tried to ferment popcorn?

[Barney Fife]

Its gonna take lots of solder for these damn things.

An untested idea, but in theory, if you only apply flux 1/4" from the edge, the solder should only pull itself-in 1/4" also, as the solder will follow the flux. So, for the really big jobs, like you have here, perhaps a 1/8" smear of flux will be enough, saving you much solder, and making future alterations simpler.

[Kentucky shinner]

Well here is tonights progress. I have been doing some thinking about this baby.. I decided to do the tried and true method. I am pretty much following OD to a T. I was going to contour the sight glasses but I just could not get the contour just right and was just gonna look shitty.. So I cut them off a little and mounted them up.. also mounted my plate tree. I screwed up the first sight glass soldiering it in. I guess I was a little flux happy, when I applied the solder hell it all the up in the nut.. It sucks when you get solder on your nut, especially when you have your tin foil underwear on... damn that shits hot... back to business. so I ended up removing it and putting in another. I will have to get one more. I am now one short. I got one row finished tonight. I am pretty sure when I get my other row of sight glasses installed I can trim the excess if I every need to with my dremel tool and a cutoff wheel. I can work through one and see through the other. I checked and my cutoff wheel's will fit inside the sight glass.

[olddog]

Unless you are bustin to cut off the excess inside the column, I would leave them as they are, it will make a stronger joint, also if you can fill one end of the plate support tube with solder, it will give you a blind thermometer probe port which you will need to control the dephlagmater.


OD

[olddog]

Some of you guys who are building Flute have asked me to explain how the cooling system works for the two condensers, so here it is.

The Flutes cooling system consists of two condensers, a Graham condenser, and the dephlagmater. Both condensers are controlled with independent ball valves, the water feed input is through the Graham condenser and each condenser has its own independent water return.

The Flute can be run in potstill mode by simply turning off the water supply to the dephlagmater, and just using the Graham condenser to condense the vapor.
When using the Flute in reflux mode I can turn off the return from the Graham condenser, diverting it's output to the dephlagmater, the output flow from the dephlagmater it controlled by the third valve on its output line, by using all three valves it is possible to adjust the temperature of the column for the desired output.
It would be possible to run with just the two manifold valves, but with the valve on the dephlagmater output, it means that I can supply the water at full pressure keeping the dephlagmater topped up at all times.
The whole cooling assembly can be removed with the compression fittings, one at the top of the Graham condenser which is the vapor input, and one in the water feed line to the dephlagmater.
I hope this makes sense, I can understand it.



OD

[hstuurman]

I hope this makes sense, I can understand it.
OD

Even I understand this, so this must be realy clear.

Just lurking this topic, but damn I love this flutes.

[Samohon]

I hope this makes sense, I can understand it.

OD

Sure does OD, man thats one shinny flute there bro...