apple wash

[MuleKicker]

I have a huge supply of free apples here, and want to make apple brandy as well as neutral. wondering how ya'll mash apples. Im thinking, just cut them up and boil them, mash them up, set sg, and probably some lime to bring the ph up? do you ferment on the pulp, or off, add nutrients, or is the pulp sufficient? anyone do this? Thanks

[Dnderhead]

you can do it either way on or off the pulp, I prefer off and just use apple juice/cider, and add not more than 1lb sugar to the gallon.
(1 kg to 8 L) and I prefer wine yeast, it can be done with chopped apples but you end up with 1/2 fermenter full of pulp.
if you need to add acid depends on apples. some nutrients is helpful 1tea for each gallon.or follow directions.
some use pectic enzymes but I found they make more fore shots/heads.

[snuffy]

Grind them up, squeeze them out and ferment the cider. Check out cidermaking...

We use stuff from these folks: http://www.leeners.com/cider.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

http://counties.cce.cornell.edu/yates/MG10.3.01.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Cider is slow to ferment without nutrients. A cut down version of Wineo's Plain Old Sugar Wash additives will get it up and running. Without additives, plan on a couple of months.

Apples are high in pectin, so you will get a lot of heads. The apple flavor is mixed in with the heads, so be ready for that. Gentle distillation helps.

[Husker]

Snuffy,

I was looking at doing some apples this fall. If using a column, can you bleed off the foreshots/heads, and then simply crack open the take-off, and reflux none, to pull over the body (and hopefully much of the 'good' flavor), or is even this gonna dump all the good esters off in the fores/heads compression?

H.

[MuleKicker]

Any ideas for crushing the goodies out of these things without buying a $250 apple press???

[MuleKicker]

sorry snuffy, should have read alittle more..............

[snuffy]

20 gallons of cider in a day is a lot of work for two people.

I've found that gentle distillation (I've used both pot with thumper and column) gives the best separation of heads. I get a higher yield with a column. I've been using vapor management (VM) on the last several batches and was very happy with the results. I take several cuts in 1/2 pint jars to try and separate the good from the bad heads. Most recently, I've been experimenting with redistilling hearts over fruit pulp in the thumper. It's worked great with strawberries and I'll be trying apples this fall.

I've also used a 100% refluxing coolant management (CM) rig with less good results on the cut between heads and heart but incredible compression of tails -- almost no tails. When I've got a few more runs to evaluate, I'll publish on the equipment and technique.

I have not used liquid management (LM) for anything other than some experimental runs. The CM is looking more promising than VM for flavored spirits, but it requires very precise control. So this fall I'll be doing more testing of the CM rig and adding some refinements to get better heads separation.

I've also found that putting a quarter apple in a quart when distress aging both adds a nice apple aroma and (somehow) reduces the off flavors from the heads.

[Slow & Steady]

Apples are high in pectin, so you will get a lot of heads. The apple flavor is mixed in with the heads, so be ready for that. Gentle distillation helps.

Right you are Snuffy... but there are two things that my wife and I have learned over the years about making a great cider for distilling.

First, store the apples until they are starting to go dead ripe (soft, not hard and crispy). The flavor will develop in the apples to produce a better end product (more pure apple flavor) and the pectin levels will be greatly reduced. A small amount of pectin enzyme will then eliminate the pectin all together.

Second, store the cider for a good long time before you distill it. It allows the cider to develop some esters and the distillation will produce a smoother end product. Make sure to store it in sealed, full containers as oxygen can allow the bacteria that produce vinegar to flourish.

S&S

[goose eye]

slow an steady all apples aint the same some never get hard an crisp an some never get soft.
some there aint no need messy with an some is stand alone.

so im tole

[Slow & Steady]

slow an steady all apples aint the same some never get hard an crisp an some never get soft.
some there aint no need messy with an some is stand alone.

so im tole

I agree with you whole heartedly Goose Eye. I ran apple and peach orchards for a living when I was in my 30's. My wife and I developed our favorite blend of apples for fresh cider that we marketed in the city. If it didn't sell we picked it up on our next delivery of fresh. It had started to work so we put it in big 60 gallon barrels to work off. Now... early in the season the cider was good but not great and we would put the hard cider into the Vinegar barrels and let it work off to vinegar. The apples that stored for a while would make a fresh cider that had much better aroma and taste. When that turned hard we would run it in the still and my oh my was it ever good.

Some fellas at the cider mill said you could make a great cider from York Apples... We tried it and it was good but not as good as the mix of apples that we worked out.

There was one apple that we had that every one joked about... I think it was a sport of Bray Burn but I don't really remember. It when this way...

Pick the apples then box them and put them in cold storage, in the spring when all the rest of the apples were eaten take the Bray Burns out of cold storage, throw the apples out and eat the box.

It is true that storing an apple so that it is dead ripe (on the tree or in cold storage... some apples drop as they ripen others like Golden Delicious hold on the tree and get sweeter and sweeter) reduces the pectin in the apple and that's a good thing when you want to ferment it.

S&S

[goose eye]

you want cuss squeze a barel from morgage lifters

ole boys been in the business to but that was before high density an growth restrictin.

so im tole

[Slow & Steady]

Ahhhh... now you are talking Goose Eye... back in the day, when one spray maybe two of lead arsenate would control the codling moth all season long. An apple picking ladder was 30 feet long or more. You fall out of the top of a standard apple tree and you were doing some serious falling.

I never have had an apple called Mortgage Lifter, but from what you are saying it is just as well that I haven't.

S&S

[devilsbox]

Right you are Snuffy... but there are two things that my wife and I have learned over the years about making a great cider for distilling.
S&S

Is it possible to use the mush left over from making cider? My thought was to add some apple mush to a corn mash.

devilsbox

[Slow & Steady]

Damn, I wish I had thought of that, kind of a apple corn cobbler thingy. Sounds like a good idea, you should give it a try and see what you get. If you do give it a try you might need to squeeze the mash/mush mixture after fermentation as there are going to a devilish amount of solids in that mixture.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained
S&S

[devilsbox]

Nothing ventured, nothing gained
S&S

I've got access to all of that left over cider mush (what do you call that stuff?) I want, so I'm wondering if there is a way to take advantage of it.

devilsbox

[goose eye]

you talkin bout plummins that been squezed or have they been work em off. if you worked em off you wastein your time - aint no flaver- but will be in hot slops. if they just been squeezed add bout 1/2 full add a sack of suger an top off with water. best to put em in a sack an work em slow

so im tole

[Slow & Steady]

I think we called it pomace (sp?) but don't quote me on that. The thing about the leftover pomace is most of the dissolved solids (Sugars) are gone, they went with the juice. So you are going to have to approach this with a creative twist. Maybe start with Goose Eyes recipe and add a little corn meal for flavor. Honestly, you are in uncharted waters and if you discover something new and tasty you can name it after yourself then share the recipe with your brothers in the Copper Pipe or SS Pipe if that's the way you roll.

S&S

[devilsbox]

Plummins it is. And they just been squeezed. Thank you goose eye and S&S. Least now I know I'm not wasting my time.

I've got some ideas. Will let everyone know if I come up with some killer recipe!

Any other ideas would be appreciated.

devilsbox

[snuffy]

Apple squeezing time is coming soon around here. This year I'm going to freeze some of the squeezed pomace. Then when it's distilling time, I'm going to put some in the thumper and see how that works. We don't add sugar, so it takes a long time to work off and comes out about 6-8% depending on how good that year was. I just ran off some hard cider that had been aging for two years. Lots of heads, but the hearts are very nice. 20 gal gave 3/4 gal of hearts. Going to blend it down to about 140 - 120% and use 1 1/2 oz of cubes of heavy toast french oak. Not much yield, but it was not the best season for high sugar content. This year the harvest looks small - cold and wet when the bees should have been out - but it's been hot and dry so I'm hoping for high sugar.

[Slow & Steady]

This year I'm going to freeze some of the squeezed pomace. Then when it's distilling time, I'm going to put some in the thumper and see how that works.

That sounds like a really good idea Snuffy, have you tried this before with other fruit pulp. What will you add to the squeezed pomace to create a liquid in your thumper. My apple pomace and or fruit pulp is pressed long enough so that it is very, very dry.

S&S

[snuffy]

Earlier this season, I took a gallon of fresh strawberries and macerated them in neutral for a week, put that in the thumper and steam distilled it off. Came over very nice, but lacking in sweetness. So I macerated some more strawberries and then filtered it. Came out tasty.

I've also put sweet cider in the boiler for the spirit run of apple brandy. And taken apple brandy after oaking and aged in glass with a quarter apple per quart. All worked well.

As a matter of fact, I made the stainless thumper specifically to do apple pomace this year.

[Slow & Steady]

Any reason for the stainless steel thumper. I don't have a thumper but I could build one from copper that I have on hand. I have not wanted a thumper until you shared your idea about pomace in the thumper. Gets rid of the problem of accidental burned macerations in the main pot. I really like the idea. Thank you for sharing.

S&S

[schnell]

i have this funny kitchen tool called a Mahu Liisa, which is basically a steam juicer. I got a few bushels of apples donated to me from a local farm I've been running through the past couple days. Yummy. But unfortunately it doesn't yeild much as it's stove top sized.

I was thinking about adding the recovered juice to some of the store bought juice i usually ferment to give it a little more variety.

I need to figure out a poor-mans press and shredder to take advantage of my generous neighbors, who have told me i can have all i can pick. There are lots of neglected trees locally that just drop their fruit and no one but the cows and ants benefit.

Unfortunately a commercial processing ability will set me back $3k that i don't have to spend. (Shredder about $1300 and press around a $1000 mas y minos.)

[MuleKicker]

Well, I picked a 55gal drum full of apples today. not bad. Turns out I had a friend with an apple press, great. borrowed the apple press and on the second pressing, broke the apple press. Not good. Plan B: got out the wifes blender, snuck it out to the garage and made 5 gals off apple sauce, added 5 gals of water. it was next to impossible to get a sg reading in the pulpy mash. I then just pitched the yeast. we will see what happens. Should I have to add nutrients, fermenting on the pulp?

[MuleKicker]

do you all rack and clear this stuff off well before stillin'? or can you run it a little dirty, i would think dirty would give you a little more flavor, but maybe not the flavor you want??? i dont know

[goose eye]

aint sure what you mean by dirty an aint sure bout your outfit but ole boys put
a colinder in the top of the ketel an put a hand pump in the barel an pump it/dip it in the ketel. if it goes thru colinder it all right with there outfit. if you aint pressed it you probly got bout 1/2 barel befor the colinder gonna clog. shake it up an down
an itll go thru take the sluge you beat in a 5 gal bucket. it gonna be messy aint
no dout

so im tole

[Slow & Steady]

I agree with goose eye. Apple can get messy, so can peach. I just returned from France and I was hoping to see if I could learn some new tricks from the folks over there making eau-de-vie, but the French are just as tight mouthed as most the good ol boys where I live. I'm not referring to the good ol boys on this site, as there has never been a more helpful lot than the folks on HD.

Mule Kicker, I have run my stuff "dirty" with pulp and dead yeast for years and it worked ok, but now I press my fermented mashes in a $200 stainless steel press and then rack off the yeast before I do my stripping run. I'm not saying it is better to do it this way, it is just the way I roll these days. The clean up on the still is much easier for me with cleared mashes.

S&S

[MuleKicker]

SS, can you tell a flavor difference much, leaving the pulp/yeast in or out. I can and will rack/clear if it is a difference of ok to great final product. I only have about 10 gal of mash so far, sounds like these damn things make a lot of heads and whatnot so i may not have much for final. Just a bottle to age and be good, thats all i ask! Then next year, i can be ready to hit it hard!

[Slow & Steady]

I don't think it makes a big diffence in the taste in the long run... so many processes take place during aging that it boggles my mind... but here is what I think is different.

Cleared mashes seem to produce cleared low wines and this makes it easier for me to detect cuts in my pot still. I think this practice is producing a better product straight out of the still. I don't have aged product to do side by side taste test so I can't really say that it will be better after aging. I do age most of my distilate in 5 gallon barrels and the quality change that I get from that is amazing to my taste buds.

I guess what I'm trying to say is I'm Not Sure But I clear it, to do the best I can. It feels like I'm rushing the process when I don't clear the mash.

S&S

[Yungin]

I have searched and read and don't know if I'm just not searching the right way or what. I am trying to find out how much juice I should yield from a 55 gallon barrel of apples. My process is let apples sit untill completely ripe going thru all the apples every couples days cutting in half the ripe ones and freezing and throwing out the rotten. And I will be runnin them all through a garbage disposal to shred them up and then pressing them with a press. Made of oak if I can find the wood if not made from stainless. Thanks for anyhelp