lm or vm that is the question?

[PJ_Freshfish]

Greetings from Vancouver Island. I would like to either purchase a VM or LM still. I have been doing much research on this great site and need some assistance from the masters. Should i go VM or LM? Should i buy a PDA 1 or a VM from Manu. Is all the Mile High CM stuff really that bad? Can someone direct me to plans for a 3" boka design? thank you all.

[Chiller]

Hey PJ, first off welcome Second - I would strongly advise making your own still, buying one can cost alot of money, but more importantly you won't gain the understanding you would have if you'd bought the materials and made it yourself. From my experience with LM/VM, what is best is actually a combination: if you take a standard VM plan and add the boka slant plates and needle valve takeoff between the condensor and the VM takeoff, you will be able to compress fores+heads with the slants, and have the ease of use of the VM for hearts, then swap back to LM for tails (only have VM OR LM open at a time). Sam has some great plans, here is a pic that's been on my bookmark bar for ages now: http://homedistiller.org/forum/download ... &mode=view It's pretty big so i'd suggest printscreening it to save you having to load it each time you want a look. Sam told me a change he made from the diagram was to use a 54*54*28 reduced branch tee instead of the two 54*28 reducers and the 28*28*28 equal tee to save on costs, with little difference to performance. Last, if you're going to make a bok, then i'd say 2" as it'll be your first, but also because if you're going up to 3" and beyond you'll be tempted by all sorts of plated builds which you'll want to save your bigger pipes for ( ).

Hope that helped

- Chiller

[Rum Bum]

Greetings,

I agree with Chiller that it's very beneficial to make your own, but I think if your unsure if you can make something that tastes good, then it's better to start out with a still that you know is gonna preform. Building a still takes a lot of time and learning, sometimes jumping into everything so fast can be too daunting. I'd buy a still and perfect a recipe first, then once you're comfortable with that, go ahead and learn how to build/solder.

I can't help you with you VM/CM question because I bought a pot still from http://www.copper-alembic.com/.

Whichever way you choose is up to you but most importantly have fun man, and again, welcome to the forums.

RB

[PJ_Freshfish]

Can anyone else chime in? Can you give me some suggestions? I priced out a 3"x 4' piece of copper today, its $30.00 a foot. Will i really save much building my own setup? A keg is running around a $100.00. Thats $240.00 spent right there. I cant see it being feesable.

[Chiller]

Well, everybody else has managed to do it In any case, the keg will be a one off. MileHi's cheapest still is $109 for a 20" x 2" column. For $150 you could have 60" of 3" which could handle about 6 times as much power (thats an over-simplification, but its near enough). You could choose to make it only 36" tall and you would still be able to handle 4 time as much. Make a coil, get some packing, and a product condensor, and you're done. And as blanik says: 'if you don't have to time to make a still, you don't have time to operate one either.' No excuses!

[Rum Bum]

That's blanik's only quote I've ever disagreed with, though in his defense I can see where he's coming from. But you have to understand, he's retired. Making a still isn't necessary at all to understanding one. I'm not saying it isn't a good learning experience, and I'm not saying you won't learn from doing it. But a basic still can make you great alcohol. Fact.

The reasons a lot of guys make stills on HD is because they want to test their craftsmanship, test new and old ideas, and/or save money. You might be able to save money but it will take a lot of time to build unless you've been doing it for years. So if you factor-in the time it takes you and multiply that by the amount of money you make an hour, and add that to your cost... you prolly won't save much. Example: (Lets say your materials cost $200. And lets say you put in 30 hrs to make your still, and you make $10/hr working at Walmart, that means you have $300 of your time into the build. That $300 is money that you could've been paid if you had worked, but you didn't you made a still. So you can add that to your total cost of your still. So really your still cost $500, not $200.)

Some of the better contributors on HD are retired, therefore make $0, so yes they save money. If you have free time to make a still then go for it. But hypothetically every hour you spend learning how to build and actually building your still is an hour you could've been making money... Making money either by working your 9-5, or getting out and selling lemonade on the sidewalk while your not scheduled to work that 9-5. Either way that translates into loss of money.

RB (studying business at PSU)

[The Baker]

Can anyone else chime in? Can you give me some suggestions? I priced out a 3"x 4' piece of copper today, its $30.00 a foot. Will i really save much building my own setup? A keg is running around a $100.00. Thats $240.00 spent right there. I cant see it being feesable.

That's the cost of say five to nine bottles of spirits in the shop, depending on your taste and your pocket.
And probably over half, maybe a lot more than half, is tax.....

[olddog]

The reasons a lot of guys make stills on HD is because they want to test their craftsmanship, test new and old ideas, and/or save money

When you are building in your leasure time, your hourly rate does not count as you are doing it for yourself, also when you build for yourself, you are not paying for someone else's profit.


OD

[Rum Bum]

When you are building in your leasure time, your hourly rate does not count as you are doing it for yourself, also when you build for yourself, you are not paying for someone else's profit.

But hypothetically, if you think about it from a business standpoint, you can consider that leisure time, opportunity where you could have been doing something that would turn a profit. In your own leisure time OD, you make flutes for people. So you can consider your time, time well spent, because your turning a profit. So even though you are retired, you are not unemployed; you have a job, only now, you're self-employed. So whenever you spend your time making a still for others, you are working an hourly paid job.

Likewise, someone who only uses their leisure time to make stills for themselves, would be essentially loosing potential unrealized income.

RB

[Rum Bum]

The profit you gain is what the other builder would have made.
...this has enabled me to enjoy a high standard of life with the money I have saved,
OD

That profit you've taken advantage of, is not just money, but intellectual enrichment

RB

[condensificator]

profit? gain? business?....nope...no thanks. i get enough of that shit in the real world. this is my hobby. i do it because i enjoy the shit out of it.

PJ if'n you want to buy a still to get started...i'd say a basic mile hi rig. you'll find out if this is for you, and then go from there. you might be well served forever with your mile hi, or you might go melonfarming crazy deep into it like i did, or you might give it a go then look for something else to do for fun.

have fun, good luck!

[rubber duck]

If your going to buy one I would do a 3" VM for Manu.

[Bushman]

Welcome to the forum, I do a lot of fishing around Vancouver Island and love boating in the gulf islands as well. My two cents I agree that you learn a lot about distilling by building your own. That is not to say you can't learn by purchasing one as well (I've never built a car but I know how to drive one). 3" & 4" copper is really expensive, most of us have 2" columns and some even have 1-1/2". Good luck on your decision I think once you get started you will really enjoy the hobby

[likkerluvver]

I'm still running a 3" combination pot/CM reflux rig I bought from Brewhaus. Is it as good as LM & VM? - I don't know and can't comment because I've never run either of those other types - YET!!

I've already bought (almost) everything I need for a 3" combo LM/VM build. When I finally get to building it I'll be sure to offer my impartial and unbiased advice, having made real-world comparisons and NOT basing my advice on what I have heard elsewhere. I'm also savouring the time I'm spending looking closely at other builds and noting improvements to my design ideas.

Meanwhile, I'm producing great likker (at up to +95%) and having fun exploiting the many possibilities of my CM system, and using the CM as a deflegmator to boost single-run "pot" distillations. I'm also following the bubble plate builds with interest - for another future build, no doubt.

Everyone has made valid points. BUT, I have to say that I'm with Rum Bum on what he says about the merits of buying ready-built, and also with Bushman - having restored a vintage car and stripped engines to bits and rebuilt them in my own home garage. I consider myself a good driver BUT I too have never built a car from scratch.

If buying suits your present situation/needs - Go for it. A "turnkey setup" sure has its appeal. If you're like me, you'll know exactly what you want to build for yourself later.

BTW, VI is a great place to live. Lived there and all around the Lower Mainland up until 25 years ago. IMHO Vancouver has the best backdrop of any city in the world including those in Switzerland (on any spring or fall day when you can actually see those mountains).

[beelah]

Weclome PJ Freshfish. Nice to have another west coaster here onthe forum.

As for buy or build I say build.

I don't knwo where you are onthe island but you can get a great 60l or 30l stainless steel used keg from You Need a Bottle in East Van on Victoria drive for $30. I have two with the sanki valve that easy to dismantel and slap a sani-clamp on.

As some have said here you can start with 11/2" or 2'' and keep the cost down.

Take a look at this simple breakdown of a pot still. A great simple design. http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 15&t=17101

I will post you a link to another great design that Rad developed and was the first one I built.

I stared off as many here with a 20L stainless pot and copper pipe on a stainless sink drain bolted to an inverted stainless bowl.

[beelah]

Here is a link with pictures of my first set up.

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 50&t=16038

If you have any questions then just PM me and I can give you more inforamtion where you can source materials here on the coast.

Good luck and keep reading and asking questions and don't be too quick to go out and buy or make your still, otherwise you will end up liekmany of us always trying to build that perfect still that produces that ellusive best drin you ever had!

[PJ_Freshfish]

Many thank yous for the great suggestions and wisdom. Iam "still" undecided what to get. (pun intended) Cheers !

[HookLine]

LM or VM?

Either will work fine. A combined LM/VM will also work fine.

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When you are building in your leasure time, your hourly rate does not count as you are doing it for yourself, also when you build for yourself, you are not paying for someone else's profit.


OD

Your own time is the most valuable of all. Spend it wisely.

But for those so inclined, spending some of it on designing and building a still is an investment that pays very nicely, in a number of ways.

[aqua vitae]

A wise man who calls himself Fester once said "If you don't have time to build a still you don't have time to operate one either."