NChooch's 3" flute build

[NcHooch]

Hey yall,

I picked up some new copper at the recycling yard the other day for a smokin price.



24" x 3"
12" x 2"
19" x 1-1/2"
16" x 1-1/2"

I'll need to buy some reducers, elbows, couplers and plates, and it may take a while, but here's the idea. Feel free to advise.

a 2"-3" reducer to attach the 3" column to the boiler.
the 24 x 3" column with 4 perf plates and 4 sight glasses.
I'll use a 3" coupler to mate the column to a 4-5" shotgun dephleg with five 3/4" tubes(not a drop-in)
use a 3" to 1-1/2" reducer to the two 90deg elbows to turn the corner at the top.
and run that straight down into a 19" shotgun product condensor, prolly use six 3/8" tubes.
Do yall think 3/8" downcomers would get the job done?

Comments welcome, and thanks in advance for all the great info on the board
NChooch

[NcHooch]

forgot to ask ...do yall expect any royalties for using this design?

[hackware]

we expect pix...

wish i could fall into a windfall...

hard to do out in hicksville...

i seem to live here and ebay...

good luck, very interested in yer progress...

[NcHooch]

So, had a little free shop time today and decided to work on the shotgun condenser. It was the only component that I had all the parts for.

Bill of materials:
qty: 1 - 19" x 1.5" copper pipe
qty: 5 - 20" x .375" copper tubing
qty: 2 - 1.5" dia x .061" copper disk (i opened up & flattened some 3/4" pipe for these)
qty: 2 - 1/4" sweat elbows

Went together pretty easy except the assembly of the two plates & 5 tubes for the soldering operation...sort like herding cats....damn tubes keep falling out of the disks. Should have plenty of knock-down power with the 19" length. I considered spiralling it, but wanted to preserve the spacing of the 3/8" tubes inside, so I left it straight.

shotgun condenser

shotgun condenser

Shotgun condenser, output end

Shotgun condenser, output end

Shotgun condenser, input end

Shotgun condenser, input end

NChooch

[Torp]

Looking good

[NcHooch]

I put together the shotgun dephlegmator today after the UPS guy dropped off the copper disks from Metaliferrous.com .
Went together pretty nice. I made an effort to drill the holes more accurately on this piece and it was a lot easier to keep everything together for soldering.
One drawback I discovered ....those nice die-cut disks from Metaliferrous measure out to 3.005", and the ID of the 3" type L is 2.950.
I center-drilled 2 of them and chucked them in the drill press, and while they were spinning, I lightly skinned off .028" with the angle grinder and a fresh cutoff wheel. I'll use that method when I do the perforated plates as well, should be able to get a nice tight fit
...Anyway, here's the goods:

Bill of materials:
qty: 1 - 3" x 4.75"Long Type L copper pipe
qty: 7 - 1/2" x 5" long copper pipe
qty: 2 - .050 x 3" dia copper disks , 7 holes @ .625"
qty: 2 - 1/4" copper elbow, sweat

shotgun dephlegmator

I may need to redo the upper water fitting with a short piece of tubing with an up-bend in it ....that will bleed more of the air out during operation.

shotgun dephlegmator, input side

The tubes are intentionally left long on the bottom so that the condensate drips straight off the end of the tubes to the top plate. 1/4" is all thats needed.

shotgun dephlegmator, upper end

NChooch

[Samohon]

Lookin good Hooch, what type of solder did you use for the shotguns..

Keep it coming man...

ps: BTW, nice find on the copper...

[NcHooch]

I was doing some math last night, because it seems most of the perf plates only have approx 3% of the plate area is holes .
If I go for 3% of the plate area as holes,
Plates are 7.6 sq in
Need aprrox 18 holes / plate , with 1/8” holes
0r 65 holes if I drill them .062” (that doesn't sound too fun, does it?)
or if I use a 3/32" drill, 32 holes/plate.
I think the still would prolly work better with the smaller holes so I'll prolly try that route and see how bad it is

On a related note, what's the difference in function/performance between the classic downcomer and cup, and j-traps on all the plates?

Thanks
NChooch

[olddog]

You will find the smaller holes will work best.



OD

[NcHooch]

Thanks Sam, I'm really happy with the results so far.
I'm thinkin the sight glasses are going to be a bitch .

all soft (regular lead-free plumbing) solder so far. I really wish I had a fine-tip torch , I feel like a caveman soldering some of this stuff with a standard MAPP torch (flame is 5 time larger than it needs to be)


Thanks OD. I'll give it a shot with .062"

NChooch

[Samohon]

Thanks Hooch...

I'd probably go for the classic downcomer with cup rather than the J-Type.
As you know, the dephlegmater will flood the plates first, then the vapours will pass through the distillate on the plates on their way up to be refluxed again. I think the splash from the J-Type downcomers onto the distillate may hamper your approximation as to when the plates actually started to bubble. Purely aesthetic of coarse, as the vapours are going to rise through the plates given the small amount of pressure inside the still.

Looking good...

[NcHooch]

Thanks Hooch...

I'd probably go for the classic downcomer with cup rather than the J-Type.
As you know, the dephlegmater will flood the plates first, then the vapours will pass through the distillate on the plates on their way up to be refluxed again. I think the splash from the J-Type downcomers onto the distillate may hamper your approximation as to when the plates actually started to bubble. Purely aesthetic of coarse, as the vapours are going to rise through the plates given the small amount of pressure inside the still.

That helps Sam, thanks man
NChooch

[mash rookie]

Thanks Sam, I'm really happy with the results so far.
I'm thinkin the sight glasses are going to be a bitch .

NC, I used the 1 1/2 inch copper trap adapters from Grainger. Somebopdy posted the ink in flute talk. They were easy to do. I shaped them to fit my pipe with the end of my belt sander. After I had hard soldered them on I used a hole saw to cut the hloes. The glass is easy to hold in place with the brass nuts.
MR

[NcHooch]

Thanks MR. I'm trying something different, but its good to have other optins
NChooch

[mash rookie]

NC,
I checked out the link you posted on the sight glass thread. The oil sight glass might work okay as you intend wrapped, with Teflon and pressure fit into a copper fitting. Are they brass? Will you pickle them if they are to leach lead? I think the pressure fit idea might give you trouble.

I found that there is a little more pressure than I had anticipated at the sight glasses. I have had to work to keep a seal on mine. I have a 1/16 teflon gasket on both sides of the glass and still had them leak until really wrenched down very tight.

Since there is real no reason to ever take them out, your sight glasses may be the best idea yet. If the glass will take the heat you could solder them in place for a permanent seal ???

[Coaster]

@ NcHooch,

Perhaps the below referenced Web Page link for Sight Glass will be helpful to you.

http://www.hillbillystills.com/category_s/54.htm

Regards,
Coaster

[NcHooch]

NC,
I checked out the link you posted on the sight glass thread. The oil sight glass might work okay as you intend wrapped, with Teflon and pressure fit into a copper fitting. Are they brass? Will you pickle them if they are to leach lead? I think the pressure fit idea might give you trouble.

I found that there is a little more pressure than I had anticipated at the sight glasses. I have had to work to keep a seal on mine. I have a 1/16 teflon gasket on both sides of the glass and still had them leak until really wrenched down very tight.

Since there is real no reason to ever take them out, your sight glasses may be the best idea yet. If the glass will take the heat you could solder them in place for a permanent seal ???

Sadly, the oil-type sight glasses that I received in the mail would work nice, except it's made of Aluminum.
I'm going to see if I can find the same in brass so that I can use a peice of plain copper pipe for the port...If I cant do that, I'll try the copper slip joint adapter.

Now off to the shop to drill some plates
NChooch

[Usge]

NChooch...I've seen those oil type site windows that screw in...in stainless. They aren't very big though, I think maybe up to 1" (that's the nut size, window is smaller).
They mostly just list specs for them, etc...but I know I've seen them around. Have no idea about the cost though

http://www.jwwinco.com/products/section12/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[NcHooch]

NChooch...I've seen those oil type site windows that screw in...in stainless. They aren't very big though, I think maybe up to 1" (that's the nut size, window is smaller).
They mostly just list specs for them, etc...but I know I've seen them around. Have no idea about the cost though
http://www.jwwinco.com/products/section12/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Nice Usge, but I suspect those are pricey and the goal of my quest here is low cost. I was hoping to be able to press the oil-type sight glass into a peice of ordinary type L copper pipe and have a set of 4 (easy to build) sight glasses for $50 or less. ...we'll see what happens.
so far, i've spent approx $200 on this unit, and I'll be up to 250 by the time I finish...hopefully.
NChooch

[olddog]

Have a look around your local irrigation/plumbers supplies, you may find some brass fittings that you could use to hold the glass with cork gaskets. This would be only to hold the glass, the connection from this fitting to the column could be made from copper.


OD

[NcHooch]

Plate Tree is done.

Bill of Materials:
qty: 4 - 3" x .050" copper disk. 64 x .062" holes. 1/4" center hole.
qty: 4 - 4.25" x 3/8" dia copper tubing (downcomers) , bend 1 into a "J"
qty: 3 - .375" x 1/2" dia copper tubing (cups)
qty: 1 - 1/4-20 Stainless Steel threaded rod, 24" long.
qty: 10 - 1/4-20 Stainless Steel nuts

the plate tree, plates are mounted 4" apart

plate tree

another view

plate tree 2

plate, the downcomers are soldered with 3/8" stickin up, and the 1/2" copper peices form the cups on the lower plates

plate

plate

plate 2

Startin to come together
I'd be done tomorrow if it weren't for the sight glasses ...but i'm really lookin forward to being able to look inside.
cheers,
NChooch

[olddog]

Looking good NC, just make sure that those downcomer tubes don't bottom out in the cups and prevent the flow. I usually drill a hole across the bottom of the downcomer tube to prevent this.


OD

[NcHooch]

Thanks for the tip OD ,that's a good idea.
My downcomer tubes are sitting 1/8" off the bottom of the cup (designed like that as long as the plates are 4" apart and the tubes are 4.25").

The pattern for the 1/16" holes in the plates was a set of 4 equally spaced circles , outer was 24 holes, then 18 holes, then 12, then 12 ...lost either 4 or 6 holes on each plate from the cups. I broke 3 drill bits in the first 30 or so holes, then got the hang of it and was able to drill all of the remaining holes with the same bit.

The threaded rod is long on the bottom because it sits on a grate in the top of the boiler....keeps it located properly for the site glasses.
It's long on the top so I can pull the dephlag out & reach on from the top and pull the plate tree out (with a considerable amount of difficulty since the plate clearance is approx .005").

So far, only used soft solder for the build.

pressure tested the condensers yesterday , my dephleg had a small solder leak, all fixed now.

Sight glasses and final assembly left.

I know at the beginning of the thread I said that this might take a while, but it's all going together so nice, I''m just havin a ball workin on this.
cheers,
NChooch

[mash rookie]

Another week and I welcome you to flute heaven!! Wait till you run this baby!

[NcHooch]

I decided to go with the 1.5" copper pipe to slip joint adapter for the sight glasses ...I cut 1/4" off the pipe-end of the adapter, and then used a 3" drum sander on the drill press to contour the pipe-end of the adapter for the column. Soldered 'em all on at the proper places, and then used a hole saw right down through the adapter to cut the hole in the column.
I cut the 1.75" diameter peices of glass on the drill press myself.

fabricated a couple tabs out of flattened copper pipe for mounting the cooling valve, and popped a .5" long peice of 1/4" copper tubing into the back for the thermometer port (it's digital, so doesn't need to face the front).

used a std 3" to 2" reducer along with a short stub of 2" to adapt it to the boiler at the bottom, and I sliced a 3" coupler in half, and used half of it at the top to accept the dephlegmator.

column, side view

column, front view

Bill of Materials:
qty: 1 - 3" dia x 19" type L copper pipe
qty: 1 - 3" to 2" copper coupler
qty: 1 - 2" dia x 2.5" copper pipe (stub to connect to the boiler)
qty: 4 - copper 1.5" to slip joint adapter
qty: 4 - glass disk , 1.75" dia x 3/16"
qty: 1/2 - 3" copper pipe coupler (half of the coupler is 1.75"L)
qty: 2 - fabricated copper tabs, 1/16" thick.
qty: 1 - copper tube, 1/4" dia x 1/2" L , thermometer port


NChooch

[Samohon]

Lookin good Hooch, I reckon thats probably the hardest part of the build, well done ma,,,

[NcHooch]

Thanks Sam, 'preciate it!

The shotgun product condenser was the first subassembly I built. I used that and several other parts to build up the main condenser assembly as shown below.

i used a 3"ID - 1.5" reducer to come off the top of the column. (I cut .75" off the 1.5" neck), then used a couple 1.5" 90 degree elbows to join up with the shotgun condenser. at the bottom of the shotgun is that .75" peice of the neck and a 1.5"to 1/2" slip-on reducer. I'll likely extend the product tube later.

main condenser assy

Bill of materials:

qty: 1 - Shotgun condenser assy.
qty: 2 - copper elbows, 90 deg. 1.5"
qty: 1 - copper pipe, 1.5" dia x 2.75" (horiz section)
qty: 1 - copper pipe, 1.5" dia x 1.75" (vert section)
qty: 1 - copper adapter, 3" ID to 1.5" (cut .75 off the 1.5" end for use below) **
qty: 1 - copper adapter 1.5" ID to 1/2" (solder the .75" collar onto the adapter to form a slip-on reducer for the bottom of the shotgun)

NChooch

[Samohon]

Nice..
When do you think you'll have her finished..?

[hackware]

naw...

that thang will never work...

ya need to ship it to me fer testing...

look'n good...

[NcHooch]

So here we have my new water purification device ... I'll clean it up after the vinegar run.

the dephlegmator has a copper collar on the top end just like the column does (that where the two halves of that 3" copper coupler are used) . Both those joints have solder on the bottom half, and slide-in joint on the top.
(dephleg slides into the top of the column, and the main condenser assy slides into the top of the dephleg). This is why the reducer at the top is 3" ID.(same dia as 3" pipe)

I suspect I'll need to use flour paste to seal those joints cuz I cant see teflon tape makin that seal....but we'll see.

so:
Final assy materials
qty: 1 - Column assy
qty: 1 - Condenser assy
qty: 1 - Dephlegmator assy
qty: 1/2 - 3" copper pipe coupler (half of the coupler is 1.75"L) * we used the other half at the top of the column assy

The big flat base that it's connected to is the top of my boiler

I still need to decide how I'll run the plumbing, but I should be testing withing a week.
Cheers,
NChooch