did I miss this?

[Bagasso]

Good question. I think they would have to be covered or affected in some way. Here is a study done to come up with a new flavor wheel for whiskies. http://www.scientificsocieties.org/jib/ ... _5_287.pdf. A couple of interesting points made are:

Improved congener analyses have not yielded greater understanding of whisky flavours': a dynamic interaction between individuals and flavour components...

...Psychophysics suggests humans have physiological limitations in perceptual ability* and can identify no more than three or four flavours notes in mixtures.

I would think that this may explain why the increase in flavor components seems to overpower the harsh notes even though these are also increasing.

[Usge]

I also think your taste buds change day to day. This is something I've recently become a lot more aware of (and pointed out by some members here) as I struggle with finding things I like.
I've taken down a bottle of something , had a drink and felt it was exceptionally smooth/sweet. Then taste it the following day and found it harsh and rather dry. Have the same sensations when tasting off the worm....tastes very sweet, mild, smooth. Sample a spoon full same. Then take a sip of the jar a few mins later...and whamo (bitter, no sweetness, etc). It seems to change drastically ..particularly if you are eating or drinking it can react with anything.

I've given a bottle of my dog to someone who thought it was exceptionally smooth and drank large gulps of it. Gave the same bottle to them 2 days later cause they liked it...and they took one sip, spit it out and said...what happened? Your stuff is usually so smooth and approachable...this is really off-putting. I tasted it to see if anything had happened...nope. I never told him it was the same damn bottle . I gave him another bottle of fresh stuff that was still raw...higher proof and had a bite like a dog. He said...ahhhh...smoooth. Go figure.

It's so hard to be objective about any of this when those kind of things happen. I just try my best to make it taste good for the moment I'm mixing/drinking for "me". That's about the best you can do. If you find a certain combination of things that seems to be consistent...etc...then you try and find ways to stick to it and make it work.

[blind drunk]

I know what you mean, Usge. Although the flavor does seem to stabilize the longer it ages, relatively speaking and all other subjective things considered. That's what I'm finding.

[Glock19Fan]

I too have personally found my taste buds changing frequently. I have always thought that it may be due to my eating habbits that day. For example, if I had something sweet earlier in the day, and I took a sip of a spiced rum, it doesnt quite taste right. I figured becuase my taste buds have adapted temporarily to the intensity of the food from earlier, the spiced rum tastes bland compared to it.

On the other hand, if I had something spicy or sour, the opposite may occur. The spiced rum may seem sweeter than normal.

So, what I have done on any days that I distill or blend is keep an all water diet 2-3 hours before I start. That way I start off fairly nuetral, and I am consistant day to day.

One more thing I have thought about was after drinking from a bottle, the liquid level goes down, allowing for more vapors to form in the air space. It is my experience that simply having a large airspace (such as a near empty bottle or glass) has a different taste and smell to it than a completely full container. In my own little experiment I filled a glass with a shot worth of liquor, then a shot glass completely full. I left the glass to sit to a couple of hours, allowing the fumes and vapors to build up. First I took a sip from the shot glass, then from the regular glass. Although minimal, I did notice a small difference in taste. However, I didnt notice a difference in how smooth either was.

Perhaps it is a phsyciological thing? After being initially impressed with the liquor, he had overbuilt his expectations for the second time, and was disappointed?

Sorry if I am rambling on, I just cant sleep tonight and figured I would add something to the discussion.

[raildog]

Amen Usage, I gave a friend what I thought was some pretty good Hearts last year, he put it in his liquor cabinet and left it alone, I was at this fellows house the other day and he offered me some, damn it was bad. Its hard to get my head around how something could be good to drink after a few weeks, and instead of getting better with age, tastes like too much heads.

[banter_king]

I can give a little bit more in depth input here. For the last 4 months i was trained for and took part in a taste study for a food science PHD student. We were "politely asked" to not eat or drink anything other than water for at least 1 hour before the sessions and were encouraged to withhold longer if we felt so inclined. I talked to the person doing the study about it and she said that the standard was longer than the one she just shrunk it since she was dealing mostly with students.

The training was for recognizing intensities of sour, salty, and sweet water. I realize our purposes are much more complex than this but it shows how much what you eat and drink can effect your taste. She said that coffee in particular would cause major problems. Just some food for thought for any interested parties.

[Bull Rider]

One other factor with stillin is that you train your taste buds over a prolonged period. When I taste my product, I consider the first flavors, the middle and the finish. I concentrate on primary flavors and secondary flavors. I consider the taste on my palate, and the nose. I really stop and disecte the flavor profile.

Because of this exercise, you can't help but become better at appreciating complex flavors. This is one reason why I think we become more critical of too much heads or too much tails. Those flavors can just jump out and smack you along side the head.

Anyhow, that's my story and I'm sticking to it...


Bull.

[Bushman]

This is turning into an interesting thread! Usge you are spot on with your comments about changing taste, just aging isn't always the answer and I am glad to hear some of us are coming to the same conclusion and it is not just me. Banter_king I think you bring up an interesting thought as I often rinse my mouth out between tastes when doing cuts but had not thought about food prior to taste testing!

[Odin]

I had a similar experience. Some 10 years ago I liked to drink Four Roses on Friday evening, when the weekend began. Once, I was at a client, who works for the marketing department of many Schotsch single malt whiskies & French Cognacs. We tasted some great whiskies. When I got home, I opened my Four Rozes, poored myself a drink, tasted it, and thought that some fool put lemonade in the bottle. I even went back to the store to complain. The guy looked at me as if I were crazy and I did not get a refund. When I tried FR again later, it tasted as it should have. Somehow, I concluded, my taste buds got aquianted with the enoumous complexity of tasting a 150 USD whisky and that influenced how I perceived FR. A bit like listening to a better audio system. Next thing you know, the old one you already have does not sound as well anymore?

Talked to a distiller about it, and he told me he knows this experience. Distillers in the NL taste between 10 and 11 in the morning. Breakfast at 7h30 and only a glas of water in between. That is the best time for them buds. But is it the best time for tasting? I wonder.

Odin.

[jake_leg]

ethyl acetate is not directly the cause of "bite" oxidized ethyl acetate makes acetaldehyde? and this "bites"
then this can be changed back into acetic acid/ethanol with a acid. ethyl acetate gives a "banana" or "fruity" flavor.

I opened a can of 100% ethyl acetate paint thinners and took a sniff. The smell is surprisingly sweet, not really fruity but a sort of pleasant glue smell, and without the nostril hair burn that I associate with acetone and cheap vodka.

I'll leave it to someone on a higher pay scale to dilute it with water to 100 mg / litre and report on whether it burns the back of the throat.

[banter_king]

To further my last post and go off of what Bushman said. The study required us to take a sip of water, eat an unsalted saltine cracker, then take another sip of water between each sample. I never though of doing anything like that while making cuts but now i just might have to. Thanks for bringing this up fellas. Makes you think about your process for sure.

[raildog]

Well guys I did the feints run on this batch 2 days ago and did the cuts this morning, talk about an eye opener....in more ways then one. The smell was of heads well into the low 70's, was finally able to find a couple jars well into the tails that was acceptable from about 63% down to about 50%. I know that seems pretty low percent to be keeping but thats what my taste and smell told me.
The next time I do a spirit run I will not keep any heads, I did learn that from this effort. All in all I got a 5 gallon Gibbs barrel full from 6 stripping runs then 2 spirt runs and finally 1 feints run. I'll report back about Christmas and let everyone know how it is then.

[Acrolein]

I think 17% is the optimal range for odor release. Maybe try rediluting your samples down to that and give it a try. That's how the scotch distillers judge it but they rarely taste the cuts, just smell.

[Odin]

Arcolein,

Do I understand you correctly when you say: "Scottisch distillers will put so much water in their drink as to water it down to 17% and only then they can best smell how it is?"

Odin.

[Acrolein]

Yup, that's the size of it as claimed by this article: http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cac ... WQZW1QzEQQ

I take everything written on Scotch with a grain of salt as practices vary but the idea is this dilution level prevents aromatic components from clustering and if you are only using your nose to detect flavors (like most blenders do) that would be bad indeed. The advantage to nosing is not throwing off your tongue with alcohol numbness/flavors. Of course, you can always do a taste first and then dilute for a nosing.

[Odin]

Great article, Arcolein! Thanks! Odin.

[Horse_Shoe]

Excellent article. I can't way to try out the method on my own stuff