Guiness keg and tri-clamps

[atticpc]

Hi All

My boiler is a guiness keg. I want to update things to use a tri-clamp to attach the head. The ferrule on a guiness keg is just a little larger than 2 7/8 inches (its 2.884 inches, 73.3 mm)

So my option is to go for a 2" tri-clamp which according to St Pats is good for 2.516" OR going for a 2.5" tri-clamp which is good for 3.047".

Any thoughts and comments would be appreciated. Just wondering if the 2.5 tri-clamp would work with a ferrule which is smaller than recommended.

[DAPHELP]

id say those differences are way to big!!! recipe for disaster

[emptyglass]

Not really sure what you mean, but,

sounds like the 2 7/8" is an inside diameter. If so, it would be fair to assume its a 3" outlet on a Guinness keg.
If 2 7/8" is the size of the outside diameter of the keg fitting, my guess is it's a 2" outlet.

How am I going so far?

What are you using at the moment?
Does the keg neck have a flange?
Some better sizes and pic's would help.

[maheel]

like this ?

can you use the threaded bit from the spear to weld onto your pipe or create a easy flange off it somehow ?

[emptyglass]

Looks like either would be an option.

[Coaster]

@ atticpc,

Dairy Sanitary Tri Clamp Ferrules are not that expensive. Suggest purchasing a 2-inch ferrule and see if it will fit your Guiness keg.

I might be wrong but I believe that a 2-inch Dairy Sanitary Tri Clamp Ferrule will fit on your Guiness keg. The outside diameter sizes of the flange on the top of Beer Kegs from my experience are the same dimension (2-inch Dairy Sanitary Tri Clamp size). What is different between various kegs is the extractor tube being affixed to the neck - ie. the internal milling of the neck inside diameter size.

Regards,
Coaster

[atticpc]

Thanks to all who have replied.

emptyglass - currently I am using a slide fitting. I did up a posting on my build previoulsy. It is available here.
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... =17&t=8845. The finished pot is here http://homedistiller.org/forum/download ... &mode=view.

The 2 7/8 is the external measurement of the ferrul on the top of the keg, and it does have a 2" pipe. Just that the ferrule is larger than normal. The fitting that I currently use is very successful - but does not lend itself to getting my column set up perfectly vertically. So I was just looking at other methods.

As Coaster points out the clamps are not too expensive (now that I have managed to find someone who stocks them) so I may as well go off and buy one and see how it goes.

[emptyglass]

If you can get a 2" ferrule, you could sit it on the existing flange and check size. If its too big to let the clamp funtion right, maybe you could mark around the triclamp ferrule, and grind the edge of the keg flange till its right.

[DAPHELP]

would taking it to an engineering firm and getting them to cut off the current fitting on the 2" neck be possible? when you say 2" pipe, do you mean outside diameter (2" SS tube)? if so, a ferrule will make a nice butt weld once cut. if you mean actual 2" pipe (2" ID) the ferrule would probably sit inside nice for welding.

It would really make your life easier

or better, get them to mill the whole fitting out, holesaw it and put a 3" ferrule on there. at the same time get a 3" cap drilled to accept a 2" ferrule and have them welded too. once youve done that you can attach your 2" ferrule no dramas and also youve left the capability to upgrade to 3" any time without any dramas.

youll probably pay for an hours labor and the parts. you wont regret it

[DAPHELP]

If you can get a 2" ferrule, you could sit it on the existing flange and check size. If its too big to let the clamp funtion right, maybe you could mark around the triclamp ferrule, and grind the edge of the keg flange till its right.

+1 or maybe get a 2.5" hole saw or something and cut the flange down to size like that

[Coaster]

@ atticpc,

Keep in mind that they make Dairy Sanitary Tri Clamp Ferrules in various sizes (1",1.5",2",2.5",3",4"). If you find that a 2” Dairy Sanitary Tri Clamp Ferrule is not the correct size for your Guinness keg you might try a different size Dairy Sanitary Tri Clamp Ferrule to see if you can find the correct size that correctly fits your Guinness keg.

If you cannot find the correct size Dairy Sanitary Tri Clamp Ferrule that fits your Guinness keg then forum member DAPHELP suggestion of visiting a Machine Shop and having them remove the flange and welding a 3” Dairy Sanitary Tri Clamp Ferrule on the top of your Guinness keg is a viable solution.

Regards,
Coaster

[emptyglass]

If you cannot find the correct size Dairy Sanitary Tri Clamp Ferrule that fits your Guinness keg then forum member DAPHELP suggestion of visiting a Machine Shop and having them remove the flange and welding a 3” Dairy Sanitary Tri Clamp Ferrule on the top of your Guinness keg is a viable solution.

Regards,
Coaster

If you do go down the road of taking it to a machine or jobbing shop, you can save a bit of cash by prepping it yourself, that is, cut your old flange off yourself, cut the hole to suit the inside size of the ferrule you choose to use and clean up any burrs.

A 4" hole in a keg becomes very versitile. It would not be much difference in cost for the work to weld a ferrule to your keg, be it a 2", 3" or 4".

It does look like you could use a 2" clamp, maybe a little modifiying...

[atticpc]

Hi All

I think that I will head down the road of getting a 2" clamp - and adjust the top of the keg to suit. That's what angle grinders were invented for

[Coaster]

@ atticpc,

Before grinding away on your Guinness keg flange suggest obtaining both a 2-inch and a 2-½ inch Dairy Sanitary Tri Clamp Ferrule. There is a possibility that a 2 ½ inch Dairy Sanitary Tri Clamp Ferrules might fit on your Guinness keg flange and you will not have to do any grinding at all.

If in fact a 2-½ inch Dairy Sanitary Tri Clamp Ferrule is the correct size for your Guinness keg you can easily use a 2-½ inch to 2-inch copper reducer to fit your 2-inch column to your keg. It would be a shame to needlessly grind away your Guinness keg flange when a 2-½ inch Dairy Sanitary Tri Clamp Ferrule would work. If you make an error and grind away too much of your Guinness keg flange you will never have perfect seal and always have leaking and alignment problems.

If you obtain a 2 ½ inch Dairy Sanitary Tri Clamp Ferrule and find that it is too large for your Guinness keg flange I would be looking at the possibility of grinding modifying a 2 ½ inch Dairy Sanitary Tri Clamp Ferrule to fit your Guinness keg flange instead of grinding the Guinness keg flange.

Regards,
Coaster

[emptyglass]

Atticpc, Coaster has a good point.

Also, if it is in fact 2 1/2", and you cut it off, theres a risk your new 2" ferrule will fall through a big hole.

I would suggest you get all your new parts and do some size comparisons before any cutting.

Ahhh, cut it all off and go 3"

[atticpc]

So many ways to skin this cat

[Duncan W]

Hi All

I think that I will head down the road of getting a 2" clamp - and adjust the top of the keg to suit. That's what angle grinders were invented for

+1
Just piping in on this older thread as it helped my build in progress. I picked up a free Guinness keg, thanks to a family friend. After a half hour, a sore fore arm and 2 (4 1/2" metal/stainless discs) I managed to grind the outside ferrule dia. down to 2 5/8"... remember proper PPE. My 2" easy flanged copper riser is connected with a 2" tri clamp.

[rockystill]

+1
Just piping in on this older thread as it helped my build in progress. I picked up a free Guinness keg, thanks to a family friend. After a half hour, a sore fore arm and 2 (4 1/2" metal/stainless discs) I managed to grind the outside ferrule dia. down to 2 5/8"... remember proper PPE. My 2" easy flanged copper riser is connected with a 2" tri clamp.

Hey Duncan...I'm planning the modification of a keg for my first still, and it turns out I have a Guinness keg as well. Just my luck. I'm about to start grinding down the ferrule to about 2.5" so a tri clamp will fit (planning a 2" column).

Just wanted to check in with you to see if you had any issues down the road - did this work out ok for you?

[Duncan W]

Hi Rockystill. This works just fine for my purposes and has been used for about a couple dozen strip/spirit runs.
Mind you I only went to 2 5/8" dia. as it fit my 2" dairy tri clamp. After the first couple runs i did have some leakage at
the keg and column connection but fixed this with Samahon's "everlasting PTFE gasket'. There may be some variation
in fit pending which direction you go in connecting the keg to your column/riser ie. ferrule, spool, easy flange etc. Hope this helps.

[cob]

So many ways to skin this cat

so true. the engineering specifications of all dairy fittings are online, every dimension and angle.

[rockystill]

Thanks Duncan. My tentative plan is to use this ferrule, which I'll solder to 2" copper column myself:
https://www.brewershardware.com/2-Tri-C ... ory_id=277" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

and then use their triclamp to attach that column to my newly-grinded down keg ferrule:
https://www.brewershardware.com/2-Tri-C ... ory_id=277" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

...I'll suppose I'll grind down very close to 2.5". OD of the ferrule is 2.516", but I imagine there's *some* tolerance in getting a good seal with that clamp?
I'll either make my own "everlasting PTFE gasket", or get something like this...I know it's gotta be flat on the keg side.
https://www.brewershardware.com/ptfe-fl ... ory_id=331" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[still_stirrin]

... something like this...I know it's gotta be flat on the keg side.
https://www.brewershardware.com/ptfe-fl ... ory_id=331" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Yep, that is the correct gasket. For the keg-side face of the gasket, lay a piece of 120 grit sandpaper on a flat surface. Then use the ferrule to hold the gasket and slide it back and forth across the sandpaper. It will quickly sand off the bead on one surface so you can use that against the keg outlet. Keep the bead on the other side as it is an important part of the gasket’s seal (to the ferrule).

Easy to do. Oh, and when buying the gasket...order a couple...they’re inexpensive and you’ll have a spare IF you ever need one.
ss

[Boda Getta]

I have a Bass Ale keg I believe is the same type you have; I just purchased a reg 2" ferrule like I use with my US kegs and had it welded on top of the existing Bass top. Works great!
The Bass keg was given me, so I still came out great with the cost. Also, I've found that if you check with your local beer distributes, they often have a few non-standard kegs they will give you.

Good luck
BG

[rockystill]

Yeah boda - that's where I'm headed too...I'm having other ferrules welded on, so why not just have a ferrule mounted on top. Good idea.