flavored runs gin rum /thumper info

[astronomical]

I'm about to hop on this gin boat. Just waiting on a couple more herbs to arrive. I'll be adding some lavender too. I completely cut the anise from the masceration. I have some distillate that is only anise (from absinth making) and i'll try it in small amounts. I may try fennel in its place as well. Should all be interesting. Im also considering some paradise seeds for citrus flavor. Lemonbalm is delicious stuff too, could also be a good citrus addition.

[MDH]

In the Pacific Northwest we have Lilac flowers, raspberries, (As someone recently pointed out) madrona berries, wild junipers, wild roses, wild violets, sumac berries, peppergrass, wild star borage flowers (cucumber taste - and they turn your distillate blue over time)...

This site is from southern Canada but I'm sure it still applies to most of the pacific northwest for those who live in that area:

http://northernbushcraft.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[waylyn]

I ran with Odins recipe
3 liters to 40% diluted neutral;
- 56 grams juniper berries;
- 21 g chopped / crushed coriander seeds;
- 1.5 grams of licorice root;
- 3 g St. John's Wort;
- 1.5 grams elderberry;
- 0.5 grams cardemon.
- 0.25 grams Orange Peel - sweet & sour orange skin
Thee are all per litre
marcerated everything in the neutral for one week exept for orange and licorice, I put all my marcerated herbs in to my gin basket along with the licorice and orange the flavours were fantastic, just waitng on a batch of neutrals to go again

[Odin]

@Waylyn: Got the message, Waylyn. Good luck on the All Bran!

@Astro: Great to see you step in. Grains of paradise are a good addition, I hear. Never tried them myself. Anise I did try in a genever once. Too strong to my taste, so I leave it out now. Good in ouzo, not so good (imo) genever.

@MDH: great info. Making your gin of more local herbs is a great way to go. I know Kiwi (New Zealand) does this with great success. The wild juniper bit you talk about is very interesting. I also recall a warning from the parent site about being carefull to pick the right juniper. There is a toxious variety out there somewhere ...

Odin.

[waylyn]

Ok Odin, running Rads allbran as I write this so far I have collected 5ltrs @ 54 abv 1.5 @ 44 abv, thats all the clean stuff and I I must say am very happy with Rads allbran recipe cracking stuff as a neutral, I am continuing collecting and havbe 1.5 ltrs slight oil 38abv and 500ml @ 36 abv and it's still comming I'm not going to use the oily distill with the good for my gin I am hopeing to dilute the first 6.5 ltrs which is excellent quality diluted down in the boiler and marcerate for around 18 hrs and then pot still, with my basket with the licorice and orange peel. Does this sound ok or is there a prefered method.

[waylyn]

I have just run my second batch of this cracking recipe from Odin, you should smell and tast this stuff it's fantastic, But I have a question about it going cloudy when I add water to lower the abv, I did a strip run of allbran 56ltr got myself just over 5.5ltrs of good quality neutral,watered down to 35% abv for marceration had around 8.5 ltrs left it for a week to marcerate then removed the herbs and used my gin basket for the licorice and orange peel and did a pot still run, now I stopped collecting at 4 ltrs nice n high on abv and full of flavour (so far so good) the over all average abv is now 70% nice and clear, but as soon as I add water which is bought Eden Falls natural spring water it goes cloudy, same as my tap water which is very soft, it doesn't effect the flavour or the smell but it has gone cloudy. Odin I am totally lost as to why this is happening, still loving it tho

[Odin]

Try distilled water to dilute. Water you use may be soft, but it can be rich of calcium. That causes clouding when diluted. But - there is a but - as I tried to explain before, in this recipe you need All Bran neutral not just to make your gin, but also to dilute that gin with. Why? Because you get over a lot of juniper oils. And you really want them to stay dissolved, because that will improve taste tremendously.

What I do is:
- Always discard the first 10 mls on a gin / herbs run (many oils there!);
- I then dilute my final result with brita filtered water to no less than 43%;
- It will be cloudy, so I ad like a liter of All Bran neutral at minimum 43% to my gin;
- If it stays cloudy, add another half a liter of All Bran neutral to your gin, and so on.
- Until the cloudiness is lifted;
- Drink at room temp only.

Odin.

[waylyn]

I first tried brita filtered tap water then I bought some Eden Falls natural spring water, and it was exactly the same, by adding continuious amounts of all Bran neutral won't it lose a lot of flavour, and is the cloudy gin bad to drink it tastes fine I know this is not what my goal is just curious.

P.S. This is the second time I have had it go cloudy now I'm thinking could it be because I use the marcerated botanicals in my gin basket to get a nice flavour along with the licorice and peels, don't get me wrong the smell and tastes are fantastic and the last batch went down without a problem

[Odin]

Hi Waylyn,

I would try taking a smaller amount of your gin and do the test by mixing some neutral all bran in it. You will gain taste, because the oils that are now not dissolved, will dissolve and add to the taste profile. If you add all bran in small amounts and stop just when the clouding goes away, you still have a very heavy gin.

It might be that it is the vapour infusion of your macerated herbs also contributes to the clouding, but (my guess) only to the fact that you get over more taste, and so more oils. You could distill without vapour infusing your macerated herbs, but that will definately give you less taste. And probably still leave you with a clouded gin. I think that, because if you use the same amounts of herbs as I do, you just get a very heavy, oily genever. I do. With cloudiness. And I don't vapour infuse macerated herbs.

But you can test that too off course. My advice would be to start with the first and easiest test: adding all bran. When it stops being clouded, stop adding. Give it a two days rest and see if you like the result. In my experience a gin where all the oils are dissolved tastes like twice as good as one where this is not the case.

When the cloudiness does not go away when you reach a 1:1 on gin : all bran, I would try the second test: distilling your macerated low wines and only vapour infusing the liquorice & orange peels.

Odin.

[waylyn]

Got you thanks for the reply, is the gin bad to drink cloudy, tastes ok? this does not mean I am not going to dilute with All Bran just curious.

[Odin]

I feel my gin is sorta unbalanced when it is still cloudy. It falls perfectly together, like a puzzle, with some extra dilution and time to settle.

Not just my opinion. I once gave a bottle of freshly made genever to an old timer that likes my likker. It was diluted so not cloudy anymore. Only this time, I thought he had some older stuff left, and that would give my fresh gin a week to settle. I was wrong. He had already finished the supply of yore (God, my English is good!) and started the new genever right away. He called me to tell me "it was the worst drink I ever made him!" He is frightfully honest about these things.

I was surprised, but remembered the freshness of the genever. I told him to let it sit for two more days. He did just that and called back a few days later. "You were right! Great likker!"

The more taste you get over (and with a gin that's not so difficult), the more is dissolved in your alcohol base. The more there is (the closer to the limits of what the base alcohol can hold diluted), the longer it takes for a drink to settle. My heavy gin is good after two days, but after a few weeks even better. Somehow it takes at least 5 weeks to get to its maximum potential. And even then, in the weeks after that, the liquorice seems to fade a bit to the background still. Hotnes slowly going away.

Now this also means (as I learned) that after travelling with a bottle, you shouldn't open it right away. It takes another 48 hours to settle again. This is a gin that's neither to be consumed shaken nor stirred. Off course, if you use less botanicals (or dilute with more neutral) stabilization happens quicker. For my brother in law, who is always driving around (band manager), I make a lighter gin. Hey, he mixes it with Tonic even! ("Is it okay to mix my genever with Tonic?" "Sure, that's the only way to drink it!" "Really?" "Well, if you want to drink Tonic, that is." - a Scottish proverb "translated" to Dutch circumstances).

Something else: on our Dutch forum the son of a former Bols product developer joined. He will ask his father to join our Dutch forum too. Bols like in "the eldest distillery in the world". Genever mostly. Some vodka. Since 1575. Now THAT would be something! Have I got questions for that fellow!

Odin.

[jake_leg]

Odin we should meet up for a drink. I want to try your stuff.

[Odin]

You swim to me? I swim to you?

[waylyn]

Cheers Odin, I should have some All Bran comming out early next week so will dilute it with the 43% range

By the way I'm loving this gin recipe, thanks again.

[jake_leg]

You swim to me? I swim to you?

Let's meet in the middle!

[Odin]

You are welcome Waylyn!

Ehm, Jake, okay, but only at REALLY low tide!

Odin.

[waylyn]

I did as Odin advised and added some 43 abv all bran neutral to my already water diluted cloudy gin and Odin you were spot on I was afraid I would lose flavour but as you said it cleared it, and the flavour was fuller (gonna try turning water into wine if Odin has the recipe )

This is the first recipe I have tried and my second run using it I added a little lemon zest on this one and it really comes through just can't keep up with the demand. And the licorice is comming through very sublte but it's there I would recomend everyone trying out a gin run.

[Odin]

Glad you like it, great I could be of service.

What ratio did you have to dilute with, finally? Gin to All Bran?

Odin.

[waylyn]

I would say to get it completley clear around 45% of neutral to 55% of gin, all @43%abv

[Odin]

... and now you have almost twice as much gin with a better flavour! Good, no? It also means you had a very heavy gin as a base. And since everything oily is now just dissolved ... you still have.

Congrats on a good result. If I can be so bold as to give you advice on the direction of something maybe better ... make an All Bran light whiskey by potdistilling it twice. No fractionating, no neutral you are after, but a light whiskey. Use that to macerate the same ingredients as you did before. Maybe leave out the liquorice and replace it with some dried orange skin. Macerate, vapour infuse, just like before.

Mix the results 50/50 with All Bran light whiskey that you didn't get over with herbs (so just the light whiskey). Gives you a good old style genever. If it is too strong to your liking (but I would be surprised at that, seeing how you like this first heavy gin you made), you could also 50/50 mix it with All Bran vodka.

Odin.

[waylyn]

What abv would you go for on this formula? the same 43%

[Odin]

43% is ideal for tasting the fruits in it. Without fruit, 38% is perfect.

[waylyn]

She loves the stuff @ 43% with your original recipe, what will the difference be if I removed the licorice it's bringing a nice subtle undertone to the gin, but I will experiment no point sticking with one I can always go back to it if I don't like others I suppose, your right experiment it's the way to go!

The only change I made from the first one was as I said I added a small amount of lemon zest 0.5grm but you can really taste it, not a bad taste infact she loves it as she is drinking it with lemonade and it highlights the lemon in the gin fantastic with such a small amount, the next one I will leave out the lemon and add a little more orange as the second batch of oranges were not as flavourful as the first either in aroma or taste in the finished product, to be honest the quality of the fruit didn't seem as good to start even though it's the same supermarket and same brand they just seemed drier in the peel, almost as if they were at the end of thier best if you understand what I mean. I used jaffa and some clementines really worked well together an excellent combo.

[Odin]

I love the liquoric too. But in an old style gin/genever, you want to work with a "moutwijn" (unaged whiskey) as a base. My experience is that liquorice tends to be pretty overwhelming. In the way it overwhelms the grain taste at the end of your sip. Orange comes over as a smell and taste at the beginning of the tasting experience and seems to sorta highlight the underlying grain taste. Well, that is just how I try to describe it.

Odin.

[retlaw]

there are no right or wrongs as i am finding out in gin making,
besides what different botanicals distilleries us for their gin they also introduce the botanicals to the spirits in different ways,
some distill 4 and 5 times,
that would add a major difference alone,

besides the botanicals that were listed in this thread earlier here are some interesting other contributors that make the differences between gins,


Beefeater Gin
"100% grain spirit"
Beefeater Gin contains nine different botanicals: juniper, angelica root, angelica seeds, coriander seeds, liquorice, almonds, orris root, seville oranges, and lemon peel. These botanicals are steeped for 24 hours before distillation. Distillation takes eight hours to complete. The distilled spirit is then taken to Scotland where it is blended and bottled.

Bombay Sapphire
Unlike many other gins, which boil their botanicals directly in the spirit to achieve their taste, the 10 botanicals in Bombay Sapphire are held separate from the spirit in a perforated copper basket.
Bombay Sapphire has a ripe citrus aroma with spice and a touch of juniper. The 10 botanicals are almond, lemon peel, liquorice, juniper berries, orris root, angelica, coriander, cassia bark, cabeb berries & grains of paradise.

Cork Dry Gin
Is the number one selling gin in Ireland. Its combination of juniper berry, lemon, lime, coriander and Cork Dry Gin's mystery ingredient which give it its uniquely refreshing flavour.

Caorunn Gin
As well as the traditional botanical the distillery uses local wild herbs and berries such as Rowan Berry, Coul Blush Apple, Heather and Bog Myrtle. 

Elderflower
Five times distilled Irish Spirit at every stage in its production. This process also involves natural Elderflower and exclusively other natural botanicals, steeped in the spirit for 24 hours.

Fifty Pounds London Dry Gin
Quadruple distilled neutral spirit is used and the botanicals are steeped for 48 hours before being distilled again in a specialised 'John Dore' still.

Geranium London Dry gin
A fantastic gin that is made using 10 botanicals including geranium and two other 'secret' ingredients. The ingredients are matured for 48 hours and then passed through a copper pot still called 'Constance'.

Mare Gin
A mediterranean gin that the usual gin botanicals blended with arbequina olives, rosemary, basil and thyme.

[Odin]

Great post retlaw! Why don't we open a seperate threat with the aim of collecting different herb sheets?

BTW I thought Bombay Saphire was only vapour infused?

Odin.

[waylyn]

I agree nice post retlaw, Odin when you say unaged whiskey do you mean All Bran or ujssmm, I would think that you are refering to All Bran as the ujssmm carries a full corn flavour with it (the more i'm writing the dafter the question is looking )

[Odin]

I would start out with an All Bran. If you like the way this recipe is developing (from neutral to a light wheaty "malt wine"), you could go for a UJSSM style whiskey as a base. But not corn. More like 40% rye, 30% barley, 30% corn. That comes close to the nowadays Dutch recipes, at least. Of old a 60% rye, 40% malted barley would have been the base "malt wine" distilled thrice to take it from 6% tot 12% to 24% to 46/47%. But in a UJSSM like recipe you can easily get to 10% and only double potdistill.

I am making an all rye UJSSM right now and I am about to switch to an all malted rye. Rye gives a distinct taste that is my personal favorite among grains. I expect the malted rye to give some extra fruitiness (which is good, because I dont like fruit peels in my herb scheme so much). It will be something like a single malt rye genever. Thinking about really shortcutting the herbs bill. Maybe work with juniper berries only. I try to find a way to make the juniper (hey, it's a gin, isn't it?) and the rye stand out. If I get that accomplished maybe introduce something else. Thinking about some Saint John's Worth and maybe some "alsem" (where they make absinth from, I think - hysop?). Let it age on some sherry wood ...

Just waters my mouth thinking about it!

Odin.

[waylyn]

your right it does sound good, the hardest part is waiting for the mash to ferment, I have two 56 litres batches of All Bran going at the moment so won't be too long and them I’m away experimenting

[retlaw]

BTW I thought Bombay Saphire was only vapour infused?

Odin.

you are correct, Bombay is only vapour infused,


"Unlike many other gins, which boil their botanicals directly in the spirit to achieve their taste, the 10 botanicals in Bombay Sapphire are held separate from the spirit in a perforated copper basket. "