Question on How Much Alpha I Need to Use

[Lickercabnit]

Hi Guys!

Mashing as we speak at the moment and unfortunately the alpha that I got from Mile Hi did not come with any recommend usage amounts. My grain bill is:

12 gallons spring water
20 lbs. cracked corn
3 pounds crushed pale malted barley
2 lbs. crushed rye
1/3 lb. crushed dark roasted malted barley

I presoaked the corn over night and then boiled it for 2 hours at 180. Let it rest to 155 and added all my other grains. Holding steady at 152 I added 2 teaspoons of alpha. The mash still seems tight yet. Does alpha usually take time to bond and loosen the mash?

Imma hold her at 150-154 for an hour before rest. Any help will be greatly appreciated as always. Thanks! -Licker

[Washashore]

1 tsp. per 5 gallons should do 'er.

Edit: correction in pitch rate (sorry )

[Lickercabnit]

Thank you my brother!

[Lickercabnit]

Hey Wash - I just added the additional alpha and let it sit a few minutes, did an idophor test and its still as purple as Barney... does this take some time to turn?

[Washashore]

Hmmm... Never done a non-malt mash. Also, I'm relatively new to AG so maybe one of the higher ups could chime in.

I'd say give it some time. At least 15-30 mins (I usually go 60 mins). Everything else sounds right. Adding gluco amylase (104oF-149oF) may have helped.

[Lickercabnit]

Sorry about the grain bill description - all barley is 2 row malted barley

[rtalbigr]

With your 2-row you're at about 2/3rds the DP ya need for a good saccrification. I'd add 1 Tablespoon alpha to make up the difference. Add your barley at around 140-145F and do a beta rest for about 30-45 minutes, then raise temps to around 154-158F and add alpha. The conversion should be almost instantly, I like to call it "magic!" Hold at that temp for 45-120 minutes to get that last little bit of conversion.

Big R

[Lickercabnit]

Thanks Big R

With your 2-row you're at about 2/3rds the DP

I'm sorry Big R, what is DP stand for?

[rtalbigr]

DP is Diastic Power. It is a measure of enzyematic ability to convert starches to sugars and is measured by degree Litner. 2-row has a DP of 160-180 L per lbs. Your grain bill should have an average DP of 30 L/lb for the total weight of all grains to get adequate saccrification.

Big R

[Lickercabnit]

Big R - you were right on the money as usual with the low amount of barley I used. Like I said last weekend, she went like gangbusters from Saturday night till Wednesday when she started to slow. I just took a SG and shes at 1.060 atm. It tastes pretty good but I'm not sure about stillin it. What do you think? At 1.060 does it have a chance to yield 40abv?

[rtalbigr]

Big R - you were right on the money as usual with the low amount of barley I used. Like I said last weekend, she went like gangbusters from Saturday night till Wednesday when she started to slow. I just took a SG and shes at 1.060 atm. It tastes pretty good but I'm not sure about stillin it. What do you think? At 1.060 does it have a chance to yield 40abv?

1.060 sounds good to me. Most of the time an AG will not end fermentation with an SG at or below 1.000. Unlike a straight sugar wash there are always gonna be some unfermentable sugars because you're startin with complex starches converting to complex sugars; some just don't get broken down to the simple sugars that the yeast can ferment.

Whether you're gonna get 40% is something I can't answer with what you've given, but that doesn't really matter. Go ahead and do a strippin run, there's nothin like experience to get a handle and what you're doin.

Big R

[Lickercabnit]

Big 10-4 on that.

Hey on your "No Boil" mashing method; I'm going to definitely try this. When I go to save my backset, I can just jug and cap this in glass of course to save for when I'm ready to go correct? Did you ever measure the ph in this? Can I also use it if the ph is on the high side, to adjust the ph of my mashes instead of using cirtic?

[rtalbigr]

I've never had a time limit on saving backset. I've had some get pretty funky but I just screen off the crap and then bring it to a good boil to kill everything. I've taken to using a buffer called 5.2pH Stabilizer. Using it my mash always come out right around pH 5.2 within a point either way. It makes things a lot simplier so I don't really worry much about pH. I started usin this stuff cuz I had some really acidic mashes that didn't work to well. Mostly pH shouldn't be much of a concern unless it gets extreme either way.

Big R

[Lickercabnit]

Hey guys,

This wash finally finished fermenting this past Thursday and I was able to do a stripping run this morning. Man I tell ya... trying to squeeze every last bit of juice from the grains is really a pain in the you know what After using every last bit of patience I had I was able to get 7 gallons of wash that started I started with 12 gallons of water. I used an all cotton 200 TPI pillow case to strain with. I nearly popped the darn thing squeezing it so hard.

Here's what happened when I started stripping this mash in 150 ml increments:

Heads = 65 abv - slight tinge in clarity
hearts = from 65 abv down to 45 abv this made up the majority of the 1/2 gallon yeild - very clear
tails = stopped stripping when I hit 40 abv - still very clear

Now my question: I have stopped stripping for now with considerable wash still in the still, should i continue stripping until I reach a lower abv or am I done? Thanks for the help as always. - Licker

[astronomical]

most strip to 10-20 a/v.. id go as deep as you can since you put all that work into mashing it. stripping runs should be run as hard and as fast as you can. You dont want to leave the flavors in the boiler. No seperation of fractions is necessary.

if the low wines have an oil slick than make sure you siphon off below it and dont put the oils in the spirit run.

Congratulations on the successful AG run. I'm about to take that plunge

[Lickercabnit]

Hi astronomical - thanks a bunch!

Yea I was hoping that was the case. I worked very hard on this batch for such small returns, albeit what I've learned was well worth the price. Time for a vat instead of a 15 gallon keg

Good luck on your AG adventures. This thread may be of some help. -Licker