Dunder pit question....

[streetrat]

So I've been making some Pugirum. Obviously started a dunder pit. The question to which I have not been able to find an answer to is fairly simple. Is the dunder pit Airtight or not? it would seem to me that it should be open to the outside air so the neccesary "infection" for lack of a better term, can take place. so Please correct me if I am wrong.

[LWTCS]

I'm in the tropics and I can't leave mine open to the air lest the flys and nats git in and lay eggs and so forth. They get in pretty quickly. Also other undesirable mold strains may bloom also?

I let my dunder cool then pour from a height to get some air into the liquid then lock it down....The mold blooms quite well and during the heat of the summer, the mold structure grows very rapidly......

Locking your dunder down will keep the environment less competative....

That's the way I do it any way.

[streetrat]

Well as far as flies and insects getting in , I was think some sort of filter setup similar to an airlock but letting air move in both directions. For now I am using gasketed air tight lids on a couple 5 gallon pails. Once I have some answers i will move forward from there.

[LWTCS]

This here is my typical looking structure 2 weeks in.

[rtalbigr]

I don't keep my dunder pit air tight. I have a cloth and lid on top to keep out unwanted guests but the lid doesn't seal, it's basically like a plastic garbage can but is made of food grade plastic. I have it set up with an inlet pipe that allows me to add fresh dunder w/o disturbing the mold and with two spigots, one at the bottom to drain off crap at the bottom and one about 1/4 up from the bottom of the container to draw off the aged dunder w/o disturbing the mold cap. It is of sufficient size that I can maintain a continuous dunder pit, drawing off aged and adding fresh w/o out ever comprising the mold cap.

Big R

[frozenthunderbolt]

I don't keep my dunder pit air tight. I have a cloth and lid on top to keep out unwanted guests but the lid doesn't seal, it's basically like a plastic garbage can but is made of food grade plastic. I have it set up with an inlet pipe that allows me to add fresh dunder w/o disturbing the mold and with two spigots, one at the bottom to drain off crap at the bottom and one about 1/4 up from the bottom of the container to draw off the aged dunder w/o disturbing the mold cap. It is of sufficient size that I can maintain a continuous dunder pit, drawing off aged and adding fresh w/o out ever comprising the mold cap.

Big R

This is weird. I have a dunder bucket that i open periodically to check (plastic lid not fully air tight) all i seem to be getting is what i'm pretty sure is a lacto ferment. White and bubbly - definitly not vinegar mother. I run down my rum strip pretty low - usually to 90-94 degrees. It smells sweetish and not off in any way but im not getting the same mould progression you guys are, even when i put the bucket next to the hot water cylinder to raise the temprature.
Any ideas?

I'm recycling unaged dunder every round and can smell my strip runs getting richer and more complex (im up to gen 7 at the moment) but wouldnt mind some tips on aging it too!

I figure i'll try chaging with some (lacto?) infected dunder + my first 2 strip runs (they're a bit boring smelling) and then holding the resulting spirit and dunder aside to see what the effect is before reusing that dunder for a next gen - ID1.8 (infected dunder gen 1, gen 8 over all).

What say you gods of rum

[LWTCS]

Ummmm, yeah,,,,lock it down and reduce the ability of the competition to get in and bloom. Then find the hottest spot ya can..

Plenty of useable "air" within the container after ya lock it down..........Ain't like yer raisin a family of chickin eatin knuckle heads down inside that bucket!
Yer tryin to bloom mold and mold don't thrive in well aerated environments. It wants dark, stagnant, hot conditions............ Do what ya like .

[rtalbigr]

My pit's not sealed but it is protected, there's really no way anything can get in. I never have to take the lid off because of the way I designed it for draining and adding fresh dunder. I keep mine in an attic converted room. While it's warmer than the rest of the house I do have it conditioned because if I don't the rest of the house can get unreasonably warm in the summer. Unlike Larry's situation with abundant heat, mine takes longer to develop, months in fact. It is approaching 9 months since my last introduction of fresh dunder. My understanding though is that the older the pit the better, hence my goal of maintaining a continuous pit with an undisturbed mold cap.

Big R

[Slow & Steady]

I do my dunder pit just like Larry. I keep a cork in the jug and pull it from time to time to release/equalize presure. The mold grows slow in the winter and fast in the summer. I add aged dunder to my ferment 24 hours before introducing the yeast. Then I add aged dunder to my low wines for my spirit run.

S&S

[crtbc]

Can someone explain to me this dunder pit.... why would you want to introduce moldy spent wash??? back into a good wash ready for the boiler.... when do you add the dunder.... I assume the boiler kills the mold but seems counter productive to add possibly dangerous mold into the mix of something you are going to ingest after distilling

[LWTCS]

The mold is a cap and exists as a sold structure on top of the dunder. The mold is not mixed through out the liquid.
With the correct mold bloom, the spent beer takes on a pleasant sweet quality that carrys over some chocolate and liquourice notes.

[crtbc]

when do you add it to what? if you have a pony keg (7.5 gal) and a 5 gallon wash, do you add the dunder to the mollasses instead of water or do you add it to the mollasses water mix, I then assume you have a spichot on the bottom of the pail to collect the dunder?

[LWTCS]

Typically, One prefers to leave the mold structure/cap undisturbed. A spigot at the lower 1/3 of the vessel insures that dunder collection does not disturb the cap.

One would add 25% aged dunder to the total volume of one's ferment. Or add a quantity to the boiler charge or thumper during a spirit run.......or both.

[crtbc]

and then obviously you need to replace what you have used and then some so you add the spent cooked wash back to the dunder pit via the spichot as well??

[rtalbigr]

and then obviously you need to replace what you have used and then some so you add the spent cooked wash back to the dunder pit via the spichot as well??

Look at my post above, fifth one down.

Big R

[LWTCS]

Yeah if ya got a vessel that can drain off solids that have dropped out of suspension and add and draw off dunder with out disturbing the cap then yer in good shape.....

I'm not so sure I'm convinced it takes a long time to develop a dunder pit with 90+ (f) temps in the garage...... Brutal stilling weather but makes great dunder in about two weeks..........summer's commin,,,,,,git your first batch of the season ready fellers.

[astronomical]

Anyone got a link to a quality spigot I could use on a 55G drum? Im looking to make a large dunder pit and I dont want to use enything that will leak under the immense pressure.

Im also curious what your using for a down tube to introduce new dunder? I was thinking of running a tube through the lid to the bottom of the pit and putting a ball valve at the top of the tube. When I need to introduce new dunder I'll open the valve and pump in the fresh stuff.

Thanks in advance. Any suggestions would be appreciated. I plan to put one spigot at the bottom and one about 18 inches up and then also make some sort of input valve.


Also, how hot should my dunder pit be? I figure I'll put it next to the water heater to simulate tropical conditions.

::paging LW::

[rtalbigr]

Anyone got a link to a quality spigot I could use on a 55G drum? Im looking to make a large dunder pit and I dont want to use enything that will leak under the immense pressure.
::paging LW::

I just went to Lowes, they have a large assortment of all kinds of valves and spigots, and all kinds of fittings. I have a 25 gal drum and the biggest problem I had was drilling out the holes, ya got to be pretty careful.

Im also curious what your using for a down tube to introduce new dunder? I was thinking of running a tube through the lid to the bottom of the pit and putting a ball valve at the top of the tube. When I need to introduce new dunder I'll open the valve and pump in the fresh stuff.
::paging LW::

I have a pipe that runs down the outside of the drum, starting a few inches above the top of the container. With a funnel that fits snugly I can add new dunder real easy. I have a Tee that goes into the container about a quarter of the way up from the bottom and then a ball valve at the bottom of the Tee. That set up allows me to always add or draw w/o disturbing either the top or the bottom of my pit. I have a second spigot as close to the bottom as possible for draining the trub that collects there.

As far as temps, I have my pit in an upstairs room that pretty much always stays around 75-80F. Since I don't have the tropical advantage that Larry has it initially took several months for the mold cap to form completely, but now it's there, more or less permanently. I like to give it at least 6 months after adding new dunder for it to age however I figure by the time I do another rum it will be much older than that. My last run is still in my 5 gal Gibbs barrel and still has several months to go, I'm thinkin sometime around June.

Big R

[astronomical]

I like to give it at least 6 months after adding new dunder for it to age however I figure by the time I do another rum it will be much older than that. My last run is still in my 5 gal Gibbs barrel and still has several months to go, I'm thinkin sometime around June.

Big R

Thanks Big R! You gave me a lot to think about. Perhaps i'll do some runs now so I can fill my pit and then I'll just do a couple runs every once in a while so I never deplete the 50 gallons of dunder. Dunder solara? By the time I get around to rum again, in several months, I'll have a nicely aged pit. I appreciate the advice.

I ended up buying fittings at Bayteccontainers.com. They had nice bulkheads and nice spigots.. all plastic and FDA approved. I'll make sure to be careful cutting the holes. The suggested a paddle bit for wood.

[rtalbigr]

The suggested a paddle bit for wood.

There are different kinds of paddle bits. Ya need the kind that have, well spurs, for lack of a defining word, at the edges of the bit. They are sharps cutting edges that will engage the plastic before the flat part of the bit. They will cut a nice clean hole. Also make sure you use a variable speed drill and cut pretty slow.

Big R

[Monty671]

Big R

Is it possible to see a few pictures of your dunder pit, please.

I think I understand what you are explaining, but a picture is worth a thousand words.

If others are also willing to show their dunder pits and how they add dunder in without disturbing the cap.

Always great to see how people do the same thing but different ways...


Monty

[rtalbigr]

tn.jpg (2.4 KiB) Viewed 2430 times

It developed at leak so I had to transfer most of the dunder to buckets until I replace a gasket.

Big R

[Monty671]

Big R..

OK thanks.
I got a 50 Gallon Blue barrel that I am considering using for my pit.
Will take a will to get any useful volume in that, but I am patient.

When you are adding Duner into you pit, you said you fill using the tube on the outside of the tank and in goes in via the port you have at 1/4 up. When you fill this way you are leaving some in the pipe because the levels will balance out.

What do you do with the dunder in the pipe once you close the valve? Do you dump or save for another time?


Monty

[rtalbigr]

Well Monty, it just stays in the pipe. I have a cap for the pipe to keep stuff and insects out. When I use the dunder I just open the valve and use what comes out. I figure it's all good stuff unless it smells real bad.

Big R

[Rastus]

Dunder has been a buzz word these days or maybe it is just buzzing my brain but as the topic comes up i was looking around and found this thread that answered a lot of questions i had.

seems theres many ways to skin a dunder pit... good read. from a few years back.

LWTCS thanks for contributing to that also.

i think i will wait till next spring to try it.