uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

[WOT]

Second gen is in the books and I want to double check my yields. I did a 12 gallon run at approx 10-11% and added in all the run from the first run. About 4.5 liters

I ran it on a detuned Brewhaus 3" PSII HC. Highest ABV was 90 at the very start and as soon as the fores were gone it dropped down to about 85. When it first got up to temp I ran reflux for about 10-15 min just to get temps stable then decreased water flow to start taking product. Then I took the fores.

I took about 100-150ml for fores and started to check smell and taste after that. The temp pretty much went right to 78 and stayed there for a long time, like 5 hours long. I can't really say there is much for heads if you could call them that. The first liter, liter and a half are sweet tasting and no really smell at all. Just smell like alcohol. The next 4 liters are nearly a perfect neutral no flavor and no taste.

The next jar has a very slight smell to it and the taste is very apparent. Tails are there, from here till the end was feints for sure.

In total this is what I got:

1.5 Liters of heads (still very good with no small and very sweet)
4 liters of hearts no flavour and no smell
5.25 liters of tails wet carboardish smell and taste is pretty bad, nothing I would drink thats for sure.

So does that sound right? the last jars dropped in proof from 70 down to about 60 real fast and it showed in the first jar after the hearts finished.

[Frosteecat]

Looks like my first UJSSM is clearing. My SG was 1.050...seem low? Need to take another reading. Also, fairly minimal (@1 1/2") amount of spent corn on the top...is that normal (it's a 22 gallon fermenter so it's about that depth x @20" circumference. Looking forward to getting the next generation going while I run this one off!

edit...just took another reading and it is 1.040 and still sweet. Huh...it's been bubbling pretty happily all along and isn't stalled....thought it would go faster. Added a bit of nutrient...maybe that'll get it rocking....?

[cwalker]

Just wondering what this stuff is supposed to look like/sounds like while fermenting. This is my first run ever, never seen it done before either so I have nothign to compare it to.

It just sounds like a soft drink fizzing away. I cant accaully see anything happening, just sorta hear it.
Ive watched a few videos that you can see what goin on, like a pot on the stove boiling away.
Is this what I should be seeing with the recipe, or is what I got normal.

[bentstick]

soda fizzing away!

[cwalker]

Awsome, that means im on the right track here.
Kinda gettin excited now, possibilty ill be running my first still bout this time tommorow(3day ferment). But well see were its at and if its not ready by then, No biggie just one more day to reaserch and try and figure out what im doin lol.
Shouldnet be to bad as im just gonna do a stripping run the first 3 ferments. Might get a second fermenter goin after I distill the first lot her tho, speed up this whole process.

[RumRaider]

Any ideas why my yield would drop after each successive batch? Just ran 4th Gen. I added 1/2 gal of tails to 6 gals of wash and only got 1/2gal of 54% and another 1/2 Gal of tails. I tossed a quart of foreshots/heads.
My first gen was around 70%, 2nd was 64, 3rd was 59, and now 54%. Been adding 7lbs of sugar back into the corn/yeast with each wash and about a gal of backset and enough water to top off to 6 Gal. When ready to distill, I add the tails from the last run into the boiler. Running kind of slow (mostly fast drips but occasionally a thin stream) in a brewhaus 2" column. I only use the product condensor, not the column condensor, and only 1 loose role of copper in the column.
Could I be getting less ABV from the wash? Maybe I should add more sugar? I remove the spent (grey) corn but replace it with new. Should I stir it up maybe? It only takes 3-4 days to ferment. I'm not checking SG cause i read it would be inaccurate at this point.
Also, I get a hydrogen peroxide smell/taste that I'm not real happy with. Any thought on how to decrease that?

[midlife_rebel]

Man, if the subsequent batches taste as wonderful as the first I will be one happy dude!
Even more if it gets better every time:)

[baron4406]

Rum Raider and others, here is what I do and there are other ways to run this in this long thread if you look hard enough. Some may scoff at this but as you will find with this hobby there is NO hard and fast rule and experimenting is the key. First off with a pot still you are not gonna get high ABV's on single runs. If you get ABV's in the 50's its about right. To get higher ABV's for oaking you must make stripping runs. For me one stripping run is enough, then I add it to my wash the next week for my spirit run. Small amounts of packing are they key too, I'm using two sections that are about 10" total. The packing compresses your cuts alot, pot stills tend to smear cuts. It also makes your final product alot cleaner. I also don't add my feints to my product run. I add them to my stripping run. Why? Basically your feints are now double distilled too. Doing this gives me alot of really tasty product, I get about a gallon that averages just above 60% from a 5 gallon wash this way with no off flavors.

There are other ways to run too. try them all and see what you like.

[spiritwalker]

Hey gang,

I plan to use this recipe for my my first time.. I've read it over (along with countless other topics/posts) and have a question.. The recipe states:

I recommend using the spirits you collect in your first run as feints for the next run. Yes, all of them.

however, in the instructions for the second run there is no mention of using the product of the first run.

My question is, when charging my still for the second run, do I simply put in the product of the first run and then fill the remainder with the beer from the second fermentation?

Thanks in advance.

Spiritwalker

[baron4406]

Yes spiritwalker that is exactly what you do. The first run is what is called a stripping run. Adding it to your wash increases the wash volume and the ABV of your wash.

[spiritwalker]

Thanks for the reply and confirmation baron4406

[CuWhistle]

This is a very long thread and the more I read, the less I'm sure of the best equipment to use. I've read a fair bit of it plus the wiki page instruction and I understand the process. My question is about the type of still to use and how it's used. Does using a Reflux still, albeit with reduced packing, remove flavour? I've made myself a short (no) column Pot Still to go on my boiler but when I did the sacrificial wine cleaning run the ABV was very, very low. Am I going to be better off using this or just removing most of the packing from my CM column?

Assume I'll be running the Pot Still!
I'll be doing as instructed and reserving the whole output from first run for the second and then the feints after that for subsequent runs, so is it fair to assume that with this increased wash strength the Pot Still would produce suitable ABV for finished product from the 2nd run onwards? This would mean some is single run while some is double distilled.

Or is it more likely that I would need to collect from several strips and do a spirit run? This would then mean that some of each final product would be triple distilled with the rest at least double. How much flavour / character is lost in this scenario compared to just putting it through a reflux?

First batch of UJSSM has been on grain for 2 days so I'm looking at tomorrow to run it as I've kept good temperature. Maybe the next day but soon anyway. Going out to buy 18 X 2 litre Flint Glass flagons this afternoon so I've got plenty of safe collection / storage. I'm not going to need that many but it's the $50.00 minimum order thing again.

[ipee7ABV]

i have a offset head reflux still. i run it in postill mode. if i do a stripping runs then spirit run most of the flavor is gone. what i have been doing is the 1.5 version if i need more flavor. which is stripping run from 1 batch added to wash during second run. keep heads and tales and add to next run ect.ect. this gives me the right amount of flavor and the higher abv.

[CuWhistle]

Thanks ipee7. You have more or less answered my question and confirmed my line of thought. It would stand to reason that the full use of Reflux or multiple runs would remove flavour and approach neutral spirit. Since this is my initial attempt I'll give the Pot Still a go just to see how it works out. I'll start out slow and keep an eye on output as it goes along.

[NcHooch]

Yes spiritwalker that is exactly what you do. The first run is what is called a stripping run. Adding it to your wash increases the wash volume and the ABV of your wash.

Make no mistake, you can certainly charge the second run with all the spirits from the first, but, the first run of Uncle Jesse's is some of the best white dog you'll find.

[CuWhistle]

Well I won't be running my 1st wash today. It's been 72 hours in fermentation but I just checked it and the SG is still 1070 and the surface is boiling like the geothermal mud pools of Rotorua. It has been kept at a very stable temperature of 24 d Celsius over the whole time so far.

Uncle Jesse says 3 - 4 days for fermentation which I thought was a bit quick and mine shows no signs of slowing down yet. What is the experience of others with this recipe? I read on another thread that someone is going on 3 weeks with a UJSSM ferment.

[spiritwalker]

Yes spiritwalker that is exactly what you do. The first run is what is called a stripping run. Adding it to your wash increases the wash volume and the ABV of your wash.

Make no mistake, you can certainly charge the second run with all the spirits from the first, but, the first run of Uncle Jesse's is some of the best white dog you'll find.

I'll be giving it a taste and maybe keep a jar from the first run.

[astronomical]

Does anyone else keep their first generation run as a non sourmashed corn whiskey? I do.


LOL... I just read the quote above my post... I guess I'm not alone...

[astronomical]

How much do y'all think it would influence the taste if you boiled the corn for a couple hours for UJSM?

more than none, less than lots.. try it in a stainless pot

Maybe try and do all grain if you feel like investing that much time. You're adding a lot of labor to a recipe that was designed to be fast, easy, and delicious.

[frozenthunderbolt]

use a slow-cooker - crock pot. you cant burn it that way allow 1 part dried cracked corn to 4-5 parts water and you will get a solid, fairly cooked well gellified lump of corn if you let it cool. you can cut it and freeze it easily like this, or start you ferment (break it up with more fluid to give the yeasties access.)

[Kidnapper2]

Just threw the lid on a half batch of this. My first attempt. Going for small batches because my pot still is only 3 gallons. Did use a half pinch of Epsom for softening the water a tad and 5.2 ph stabilizer. My water here kinda sucks.

[frozenthunderbolt]

Just cut and bottled a 6th gen of this. Always thought it was nice, but haven't raved about it, until now. Had it in a large jar with 4 layers of paper towel over the top on light toasted oak at 67%. Left 3?4? months and it was 49% but smoooooothe as and utterly beautiful.
I cut it to 45 and put it on 1/2 a spent (twice used) vanilla pod to sit a bit longer in a more closed bottle (cork seal) - it is going to be absolutely brilliant.

[Frosteecat]

My 20 gallon ferment has taken almost two weeks now. Just did a quick taste test and while it is very dry it's still pretty sweet. I wonder what I did wrong?? Used my house "living" yeast, then added some tomato paste and nutrients, then decided to go with Lalvin EC-1118 when it seemed too slow about a week ago. Have kept it in the 70-80ishF range most of the time. Thought it would work faster than this...?

[CuWhistle]

@frosteecat: You must be pretty much aligned with me only I'm doing 6 not 20. I thought I was holding it at 24 d C but it is closer to 20 so that explains some of the extra time I suppose. I'm at day 5 now and it is still reading over 140 SG and tastes like sweet corn cordial. No touch of dryness on the tongue yet. It appears to be running at about the same rate as all of my previous warmed ferments (excluding the Turbo) so far and that is that they are dropping about 10 points SG / day. So from 1090 to 990 is about 10 - 12 days. My unheated ferments which are sitting at only 15 d C are obviously working a lot slower than that, up to 3 weeks for the one where I used harvested beer yeasties.

My lager and mexican cerveza are slow at this time of year (middle of winter out here) but it makes good beer. Come summer i'll be trying to cool everything down.

Are you going to run yours through a pot or column?

[Frosteecat]

I use a potstill. I will do a stripping run then a spirit run I believe. It's not like I am in a big hurry or anything but it seemed like people were reporting a much faster ferment. Maybe the sugar didn't break down enough?
Haven't tried my hand at beers but I'm considering it. Heat is becoming an issue too but luckily we have a very temperate climate here!

[Andy Capp]

Frosteecat
My ujssm batches are 27lt and they take 2 weeks at a constant 28c. I never open the lid once its shut until the bubbles have stopped. Even then i let it settle for a few days before i siphon it off. At the moment i am drinking gen 4 aged 6 months with charred oak cubes and it is the best whiskey i have ever drank.

[CuWhistle]

@andy Capp: - I look forward to that experience. I'm in the process of making a prototype 12 litre oak barrel. Testing it out and setting up jigs etc using some oregon staves but I have already purchased some American White Oak to do a proper one or two. Should get it going into the week ahead.

@FC:- Beer is good and I have a few batches under my belt in more ways than one. Enjoying a cold mexican ATM. I'll be having a go at some single malt before too long as I already have a good little mash tun made from a 23 litre Esky (cooler or chilly bin) with a copper manifold tapped off to the outside. Holds perfect mash temperatures for 90 minutes easy and you could go longer by stepping some hot water in as required. I have done some grain brewing so it follows that I'd give grain whisky a try. Scottish ancestry and all that. I actually have a title and own land in Scotland. Lord of Blackwood. (but so do hundreds of other people).

[madmace]

Does any one have any recomendations on the best way to store /age UJSM. Im on #4 ferment and cant wait till #5 so I can start saving my 80-70% nature water. Thinking on getting a new uncharred oak barrel for this. Any input would be helpful. Gotta stop doing the taste test on this at 830-900 am . Doesnt taste like wet cardboard. thanks

[Frosteecat]

Checked my PH and man it is low! Like in the 3's low. I added some 52 PH stabilizer with no effect. Why is this happenning? It should be about done but I'm worried about off tastes from PH being out of whack...or am I misguided on this...?
SG was 1.050 now down to 1.010...getting close in any case...

[Stilly]

3.2 ph is about right, ya it slows things down, but that is what happens unless you do something to alter the ph. I don't have much faith in 5.2, I have tried it and think its a waste of money, others swear by it. Calcium Carbonate works great to raise the ph a bit and speed things up and its cheap per wash even at brew shop prices.

cheers
stilly