uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

[bentstick]

Good to see here You again, my ferments slowed once I got into 5/7 gens I didnt worry just let it take as long as it does.
But you are pretty busy, I assume by the times you are here, so check your PH, just a suggestion!

[baron4406]

Guys please go back and read my posts. IMHO you should not be running any ongoing sour mash ferment without a good PH meter and a stock of Calcium Carbonate. My ferments totally stopped during my 8th generation and I was following the recipe by the letter. I adjusted the 9th wash to a PH of 4.7 and that was using 50% backset. This last ferment was so violent my airlock actually filled up with grain. It was done by Tuesday night after starting it last Saturday. My PH meter was about $40 but now I can experiment with more and more backset.

[midlife_rebel]

Yup...I did read them Baron4406 and a PH pen is on its way (should be here on tues along with calcium carbonate).
I just wondered the question of boiling with traces of sugar still remaining as that way you never really lose the sugar at all, if you recycle 100% of the backset. Once the pen and calcium get here it should be good but always fun to think of the possibilities.

[Stilly]

You can save some money and trouble by forgetting the pH meter and just chuck in a couple tablespoons of Calcium Carbonate per 6 gallons if things slow down after several generations. For a pH meter to work well, you need to calibrate it, clean it, and use a pH solution for calibration. I have used a couple of em they work fine, but just chucking in a couple TBS of calcium carbonate when things slow down gets you there with a lot less trouble. If you want to use high proportions of backset best start buying calcium carbonate by the pound cause you are going to be using a lot.

cheers
stilly

[midlife_rebel]

Thanks Stilly,

I have had quite a few pens in the past and know they are a pain in the butt. I dropped my last one and broke the bulb on it, so I just bought a cheaper one for now and have all the calibration stuff already. I have 5lbs of CC on its way
My fermenter is a 20 gallon so I was curious as to the amount on CC to add. My local beer store had some, but its like 1.50 for about 3 tablespoons. I bought one and dumped it in but I feel the amount is way less than what was needed.
The ph equipment is mainly to give me a baseline of quantities to add to maintain good ferment rates. Once I have that it should be fairly easy to maintain without any equipment.

[Kidnapper2]

I have been using the 5.2 ph stabilizer with this recipe. As much as I enjoy buying new toys (tools), I am not convinced that a ph pen and cc would make this recipe any better. Stripped my 2nd generation last night, 3rd generation is bubbling away like mad this morning. My output quality and quanity has been very good and the time it takes for the wash to dry has been right on target.

The only other thing that I have done outside of the original recipe is I used Red Star champagne yeast. I enjoy this recipe so much that I am stepping out today to buy a 50lb sack of cracked corn and a larger fermenter. In the next 2 weeks I should have my 15.5 boiler ready to go and I am getting giddy about some serious output.

[baron4406]

Stilly I agree with you to a point, if you are following the recipe to the letter as far as backset goes then yes throwing two tablespoons of CC per batch will be good. However if you are playing with more backset- that won't cut it. For example I'm using 50% backset and this batch i just mixed up (9th generation) I need 6 HEAPING tablespoons of CC to get me into the mid 4's. I can't imagine how much you would need with 100% backset some guys are doing. CC is cheap, 5lbs was about $10 online. If you don't have a PH meter your just taking a shot in the dark.

[Stilly]

I bet more than a few of us would be interested in where you get your CC at such a good price. 2 bucks a pound is a good deal IMO.

Cheers
stilly

[midlife_rebel]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-lb-Food-Grade ... 5196ca792c" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

I've dealt with these guys before Stilly....deal went smoothly

[Stilly]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-lb-Food-Grade ... 5196ca792c

I've dealt with these guys before Stilly....deal went smoothly

thanks Rebel, that is a good deal!
cheers
stilly

[CuWhistle]

What I'm reading here is that as you do progressive generations of UJSSM, the repeated use of backset is causing the PH to go out of desired range and require re-balancing. Is this right and does it happen all the time or only with some water from different geographic areas. After how many generations does it usually manifest? I do not have a PH meter.

I was thinking that if I can get to 6 or 7 generations before it is a problem I'll just toss it and start again rather than muck around with it too much and have the headache of worrying about it. Bad thought or not?

Another question is about removing and replacing spent corn. So far I have had to remove and replace very little (about a cup and a half) but it's only fermenting second generation ATM. Is removing only what is floating on the surface all that is required? After the first ferment it appeared to be mainly husk sort of material floating up and after 1st gen I took about a cup of floaties out and replaced it with fresh.

[RumRaider]

The spent corn is not all floating. There's a layer of gray corn on top of the corn that's not floating (usually 1-2 inches or so). If your bucket is at all transparent you can see the layered effect from the side, if not, just start scraping off the top of the corn and you'll see when you reach the bright yellow corn. Replace the gray corn with new.

[mash rookie]

After about gen 3-4 it will start becoming a little too acidic and slow the wash fermentation. Faster if you use more than 25% backset. I use ¼ cup of calcium carbonate for a twelve gallon wash usually about gen 5 using 50% backset. If you throw in a couple of tablespoons per 5 gallon wash each time you will be fine. I have started cutting back on backset amount I use. It got to where you needed a knife and fork to cut the corn flavor.

I have never been able to remove floating corn as the recipe suggests. After racking your wash you will see a layer of red/dark discolored corn on your bed. That is spent. Scrape it off and add a couple of cups back it you want the recipe to continue forever. I usually just go 6-7 gen than throw it all out and start over with fresh corn and yeast. I always save backset. I think after awhile the yeast mutate and change flavor.

[ipee7ABV]

After about gen 3-4 it will start becoming a little too acidic and slow the wash fermentation. Faster if you use more than 25% backset. I use ¼ cup of calcium carbonate for a twelve gallon wash usually about gen 5 using 50% backset. If you throw in a couple of tablespoons per 5 gallon wash each time you will be fine. I have started cutting back on backset amount I use. It got to where you needed a knife and fork to cut the corn flavor.

I have never been able to remove floating corn as the recipe suggests. After racking your wash you will see a layer of red/dark discolored corn on your bed. That is spent. Scrape it off and add a couple of cups back it you want the recipe to continue forever. I usually just go 6-7 gen than throw it all out and start over with fresh corn and yeast. I always save backset. I think after awhile the yeast mutate and change flavor.

so you think it's a bad flavor and thats why you start over?

[CuWhistle]

OK. I'll look closer at the corn bed next time I drain the ferment and probably do a bit of a remove and replace.

I'm only fermenting 2nd gen ATM and I only used 25% backwash so acidity should not be a problem yet and it doesn't appear to be. So you guys are recommending and using Calcium Carbonate (CaCO3) otherwise known as Calcite or Limestone? Just want to be certain as many people get chemical compound names and formula all mixed up. Where do you source this?

I used to keep chickens and supplement their feed with sea shell grit (particularly oyster) as a good source of CaCO3. Come to think of it egg shells are almost completely CaCO3. Has anybody just used ground up eggshells or sea shell grit?

[spiritwalker]

I'll be doing my first run of ujssm tomorrow night.. mixed up 5 gal and it fermented for 4 days before bubbling stopped.. I've let it sit for another 1.5 days under airlock.. I plan to collect in 5-6oz cuts.. Really curious how the first run turns out... I'll have to save off a bit for the independence day celebrations and use the rest as feints for the second run.

I appreciate everything I have learned on this site in the past month...

Cheers all..
spiritwalker

[CuWhistle]

You will be pleasantly surprised and enticed by the smell that comes from your drip point. It is something to behold and I'm not a religious man. I had an epiphany. The product that runs from this wash is delightful. I could never go back to a bottle shop and pay for their swill ever again. What pisses me off is the amount of money I gave to the bastards over the last 30 years for crap quality byproducts.

[mash rookie]

I don’t remove and replace corn. I push to get as many runs from the corn as possible then restart with saved backset. I always keep a couple of gallons of backset in the shop fridge just in case I have a major screw up. I think the time it produced what I thought was “off flavor” I had let it set too long after it had finished. It had continued to work. Slowly chomping away at the corn. With my backset at 30+ generations I have backed off on how much I use. I gets really concentrated and really sour after a point. I have some stuff on oak ATM that is almost undrinkable it is so sour. It will be really good in a few weeks.

Yes CuWhistle. Calcium Carbonate. Duda Diesel is a great source. The link is back a couple of pages. I buy citric acid from them too. I don’t know if they ship there.

[midlife_rebel]

PH log.......

3rd Generation
PH was 3.6 ......... (no calcium carbonate added to this point)
SG was 1.080
FG is 1.005 and am stripping it today
backset was 25-30%

4th Generation (trying 100% backset this time)

Starting PH (all ingredients added) 3.46PH
SG 1.075
FG
backset 100% of previous run plus 5 gallons water
added 1 cup of calcium carbonate (Keep in mind that my fermenter holds 20 gallons of liquid)
PH after adding Calcium carbonate is 4.3PH (I honestly thought it would come up more but that is with 100% backset)




I will attempt to keep this log for others as a guide as to how PH can vary with successive generations, updating as the generations come and go

[madmace]

Well Im at my 5th gen of ujsm. I have been adding approx 2-4 lbs of fresh corn pureed, then strained and only the liquid being added every other ferment , and what a nice sweet tantalizing aroma it does produce.I am running my ph ATM 4.58.What is the target ph for this recipe. Im sure it is here somewhere , but while we were talking about it I figured what the heck.But so far this is some pretty nice stuff,and thats coming from a guy who never drank whiskey before I started to dabble in this great hobby.
Thanks to all of thoses that I pecked their brain. Once again target ph,


THANK YOU

[baron4406]

People shoot for a target PH of 5, however mine are in the mid 4's and my washes ferment fine. It never hurts to be slightly acidic tho if you get into the 3's your ferment really slow down.

[CuWhistle]

Question about Specific Gravity,

My first generation was testing 1020 for a couple of days before I realised my hydrometer was sitting on the corn bed. Hit self in forehead with palm of hand and say "Doh". So I dug a little hole, tested it again and decided it was ready to run at just over 1000 points.

My second generation has now been reading 1020 for several days but having learnt from previous, it is not from the same thing. The wash is bubbling away quite vigorously and producing lots of gas but the SG is steady. I'm thinking that the sugar is used up but the yeast is working the corn.

Is it ready to run or should I wait for SG to drop further?

[spiritwalker]

I am fermentig my second gen as well. Airlock still bubbling on the fifth day. I figure ill let it go until the bubbling stops or slows way down.

[bagmanhd1]

I've been using this recipie for 3 years, and it's been great. Kept my PH in the right range (4.5 or so), and stayed true to the 25% backset for each generation. My wash works off after about 2 weeks. Final gravity is .99, so there is no residual sugar. My run size is 20 gallons, and use a copper pot still. My (stripping) yield is 1 pint foreshots, 2 quarts heads, 12 to 13 quarts hearts, and 2 quarts of tails. I've done this so often, it works the same every time.

I keep all of my heads and tails, and when I get 10 gallons or so, I cut it to 40% and run them again, usually getting 6 or 7 quarts of hearts that otherwise would have been wasted.

Since my still is 20 gallons, I run 4 generations (12 gallons) of hearts, cut to 40%, for a second (spirit) run. My yield is about 40 to 42 quarts of spirit. I keep the jars in order, so I know the beginning, middle, and end. Then comes the cuts.

I know the middle 20 quarts are great already, so I don't need to taste them. Of the remaining 10 on each end, I taste each quart, starting from the inside out. I'll take a teaspoon of spirit and mix it with a teaspoon of water, then taste it. My decision to keep or discard is easy...if I were handed this particular quart of spirit that I just tasted, and would drink it by itself, then it's a keeper. If not, it goes to the heads and tails rack for a rerun.

I will do this procedure twice (bringing together 8 generations), then mix all of the kept spirits together and jar it up.

I will keep about half as clear spirit, and cut and jar it at 45%. I put the other half in a 5 gallon charred oak barrels. Barrel strength is 62%. I've got an unheated or cooled screen porch. 1 year in the barrel. Then I cut it to 45% and jar it.

The result is almost magic.

Got to say my friends really like coming to visit....

[CuWhistle]

This morning my wash still read 1020 for the third day so I made sure the hydrometer was not resting on the bottom by digging a little hole in the corn bed. Still 1020 but heaps of bubbles. These can stick to the hydrometer and lift it giving false high readings so I got my big spoon and gave the whole thing a good stir. Tested again and down to under 1000, just like that. Either the CO2 bubbles were floating the meter or there was a lot of trapped alcohol in the corn bed.

Either way I'll run it tomorrow. The only problem is now I've mixed the spent corn through the good stuff. I could see the gray line over the yellow before I gave it a stir.

[cooperville]

Hi guys ,

Well i thought i would post my experience so far i am on my first ujsm gen#1 im fermenting in a 50L ferm and I hold a steady temp of 30Dc my fermentor is not sealed but covered
7.5 kg of sugar
7.5 kg of crushed corn ( crushed with my crankenstein 2 roller mill)
46ltrs of carbon filtered water
nottingham yeast 2 pks which i made a 2ltr starter with the day before (1 kg of sugar 1ltr of water)

I boiled the corn on the stove once it was cracked in a large pot (37ltr) for 1.5 hours until it really gelled up and added it to the fermentor then i boiled some water and added the sugar and heated til boiling and let it boil for 10 mins stirring constantly so it didnt burn then added to fermentor i then topped up to the 46ltr line with the rest of the filtered water waited about an hour for the temp to get below 30Dc and added the yeast
i have the fermentor sitting on a heater pad to maintain a 30Dc temp ( i will play around with my ferment temps in future to see if there is any difference in time and esters)
starting gravity of 1047
it is now week 2 of the ferment and the sg is 1025 but it is starting to dry out nicely
its moving about 2 points a day give or take, which is relatively slow but it hasnt stalled at all very constant and i am still getting plenty of Co2 raising the corn from the bottom im expecting this to go all the way to 999
7.5 kg of corn does take up a lot of room in the bottom of the fermentor so i am expecting a lot less product each run but i am hoping that corn flavor will make up for the lack of space
I noticed a lot of guys concerned about the ferment taking longer than 4-5 days but i am being patient and i am happy with the results so far
i am going to run this wash continuosly so i have plenty of time for it to do its thing
as i make beer as well, this is like a side project that i do as it comes time to distill

i am eager to get through the first run and have a taste of the white
thanks uncle Jesse for your advice and efforts once again
heres a quick look at it on you tube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQn8pokVsok" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
i will try and get some more video during my process as i dont think there is much footage of mashing and the actual distilling on the net

if you know of any it would be great to find out where as images speak a thousand words

cheers

Cooperville

[CuWhistle]

Mine are taking 10 - 14 days and it is a very active mix. Bubbles away like crazy. Good fun to ferment and better to distill.

[cooperville]

OK so i have been taking my readings with a refractometer and i have just given her a big stir up to free up some of the Co2 and i then took a hydrometer reading and im getting 1007 so i need to calibrate my refractometer thats for sure !
so its just about comlpete and thats 16 days which i think is really good i am going to let it sit for a few days and then go from there.
hopefully i can run it the next few days.
i may use a kilo less sugar in the next Gen to lower the time frame a bit as i only have five week breaks then its back to work

but i tell you it smells real strong and quite dry looking forward to running it

Cooperville

[spiritwalker]

When adding sugar, water, backset to successive mashes do you fully mix the corn and lees or just poor over the top?

[midlife_rebel]

I haven't bothered spiritwalker. With taking the top layer of corn off and pouring in the new liquid it seems to get pretty mixed up anyhow. The ferment takes off with an hour for me, and in 4-5 hours is really rolling.