NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

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NcHooch
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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by NcHooch »

Exem wrote:I am planning to make some bourbon following this recipe. I think I will have to use corn flakes as the only cracked corn avalable for me is feed corn, i am not sure if this will work. It might contain preservatives.
My plan is to use 60 percent of corn flakes, 30 percent malted barley and 10 percent malted rye.
If I mashed everything in a mash tun with a manifold on the bottom for 2 hours, do you think it would be possible to lauter the wort? It works perfect with 100 percent barley malt, 100 percent rye malt did not work at all for me, (everythinhg got stuck, could not separate the liquid from the grains using a manifold)

Fermenting on grains or off grains? Which gives better results?
Exem,
as an alternative to feed corn, you can usually find preservative-free bird feed at home n hardware stores. it's more expensive , but it's better than the feed I get at tractor supply.

as far as your mashtun, I'd be surprised if your manifold will flow well enough for a corn mash, but there's little risk in tryin, right? ....if the manifold plugs up, just dump the mash straight into the fermenter and cool to pitching temp.
(that's what I do)
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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by pope »

There's a guy who sells food-grade white corn in 50-lb sacks for $12 in downtown LA near the freight yards. He just splits a freight car load into sacks and sells it, I'm guessing mostly to the plethora of Mexican and Central American restaurants in the area. I haven't been there to confirm the quality, but it's the cheapest corn I've encountered. Feed corn in my area is $16 for a 50-lb sack. He probably has the simplest business model on the planet.
"A little learning is a dang'rous thing; Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring: There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain, And drinking largely sobers us again." - Alexander Pope
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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by Stillfarmin »

Ran my first 12 gallons of 6 percent wash the other day. For the stripping run, I got just shy of 1 gallon of 40 percent lo wines. I really liked the smell of the wash before I ran it. I had a nice, subtle sour smell to it.
I have two more 12 gallon batches in the fermenters, one ready to run today, and the other mid week. I'm getting pretty excited about this one. I think I will have time to run them all through this week and hopefully be ready for a spirit run next weekend.
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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by NcHooch »

Stillfarmin wrote:Ran my first 12 gallons of 6 percent wash the other day. For the stripping run, I got just shy of 1 gallon of 40 percent lo wines. I really liked the smell of the wash before I ran it. I had a nice, subtle sour smell to it.
I have two more 12 gallon batches in the fermenters, one ready to run today, and the other mid week. I'm getting pretty excited about this one. I think I will have time to run them all through this week and hopefully be ready for a spirit run next weekend.
Giddyup!
:thumbup:
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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by Exem »

I tried to make a mash the other day following this recipe using cracked corn. Unfortunatelly i was not carefull enough while boiling and scorched it at the end of boiling. The scorch can be felt on the nose but when tasting the liquid is not too bad i think, but it is my first corn mash so i cant compare the taste of it to unscorched mash. I dont feel like tossing the mash away, do you think the scorch can be badly felt in the taste of the product? If so, propabaly aging on new oak could hide this flaw?
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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by NcHooch »

Hey Exem,
I'd go ahead and see it through to the end ....run it and if it tastes OK white, you're prolly good to go ...if it smells or tastes burnt you'll need to make the executive decision as to whether you'll add it to the next batch, or put it away on oak & chance it.

In my experience, a small scorch seems to age away (i'm talkin a year or more) ...if you see lots of black in the mash and can smell it all through the mash even after ferment, might be safer to strip it and add the goods to the boiler next run.

hope that helps.
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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by Monty671 »

Hi All,

Have tried this recipe twice and think I must be missing something.
I soaked my corn over night as several recommended.
Then I cooked the corn at 190-200f for about 2 hours.
Cooled to 145 and added the barely. Let sit at this temp for about 2 hours.
After cooking is done I move my "mash" to a 6.5 gallon (plastic bucket) fermenter and top off with liquid (water).

Here is my issue. the 7 pounds corn has swelled so much, I only get about 3.5 to 4 gallons liquid to put in the still.
Or is my corn just swelling way to much? It just seems that the corn is soaking up most of the liquid.

Are you all using larger fermenters?


Thanks
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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by NcHooch »

Yes, my fermenter hold close to 7.5 gallons...the grain holds between 1-1.5 gallons of liquid , so top off the fermenter accordingly. :thumbup:
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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by Monty671 »

NcHooch

Thanks, That makes sense for what I was seeing.
A little simple math and I can modify to fit mine.

I was getting ready on the next one to cut down on the amount of grain, but I would have been guessing.

I took the last two batches into Apple Pie for the party we are having today (4 Th. July).
Let my 2 brother in laws try it yesterday for a sample. Before I know it they had finished off 1/2 gallon.
At least I have plenty for today. Excellent recipe for the base.

Found that If I let it sit for 2 months is perfect for use in making the Apple Pie.
Of coarse mine is a "Little Stronger" then what some of the recipes here have.
I wanted the flavor of the Bourbon the come threw.

Thanks for the wonderful recipe.
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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by Exem »

Ran spirit run last weekend. Luckily there are no traces of scorch in the newmake. After straining i got 50 litres of 5.2 abv wash, This gave me 1.7 - 1.8 litres of clean hearts at 60 abv after pot stilling twice. I also added 1.3 litre of rye feints into spirit run. The taste of the newmake is really interesting, very characterfull, spicy with distinctive corn flavour lingering rather long on the palate. I added couple of oak sticks that had been submerged in tennesy whiskey for 1 month. I know bourbon should be matured in new oak, but I am a bit afraid of getting too much tannins too soon masking corn flavour.
My question is: How does this Carolina bourbon recipe compare to UJSSM tastewise? Ive never done sugar wash, or should I say sugar head before. Ian Smiley in his book describes sugar based wash as harsh and insipid, yet so many people on this forum seem to like UJSSM a lot. Popcorn Sutton ran smth like UJSSM and he called his liquer the best one.
Of course i could try sugar wash pouring water on spent corn, adding sugar and yeast - it's seems very easy and fast. But is it worth it? I am after as better whiskey (whisky) as possible.
So how does these two recipes newmakes taste and smell side by side?
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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by NcHooch »

Exem wrote:Ran spirit run last weekend. Luckily there are no traces of scorch in the newmake. After straining i got 50 litres of 5.2 abv wash, This gave me 1.7 - 1.8 litres of clean hearts at 60 abv after pot stilling twice. I also added 1.3 litre of rye feints into spirit run. The taste of the newmake is really interesting, very characterfull, spicy with distinctive corn flavour lingering rather long on the palate. I added couple of oak sticks that had been submerged in tennesy whiskey for 1 month. I know bourbon should be matured in new oak, but I am a bit afraid of getting too much tannins too soon masking corn flavour.
My question is: How does this Carolina bourbon recipe compare to UJSSM tastewise? Ive never done sugar wash, or should I say sugar head before. Ian Smiley in his book describes sugar based wash as harsh and insipid, yet so many people on this forum seem to like UJSSM a lot. Popcorn Sutton ran smth like UJSSM and he called his liquer the best one.
Of course i could try sugar wash pouring water on spent corn, adding sugar and yeast - it's seems very easy and fast. But is it worth it? I am after as better whiskey (whisky) as possible.
So how does these two recipes newmakes taste and smell side by side?
I have a bottle of UJ that I've been drinkin lately, and I regard it as an excellent whiskey, it spent 2 years on oak, and then was diluted from 60% to 45% and bottled ... very smooth, very nice. Reminds me of Tennessee whiskey.
The Carolina bourbon I have is not as old, but just as smooth, but it has a sweeter and more complex taste.
I think what it comes down to is taste, right? ... but both can produce a very, very fine drink.
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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by DFitz »

Well its been about 5 weeks now since I ran this recipe. I split some oak sticks from some old gray dunnage blocks to about 1"x1"x4" baked at 350 degrees then charred to a nice gator skin appearance on three sides. I read somewhere to use about 40g per gallon so I weighed out two sticks and two came close to the weight I was looking for. I proofed the bourbon to 65% and let is sit boxed in gallon jugs fore a couple weeks on these sticks ending up with a nice color. A quick taste told me it needed to smooth out a bit more. Added some JD chips and stored it in the garage atop of the fridge with coffee filter covers moving a couple times over weekends in & out of the fridge. Took a few fingers for tasting tonight and I have to say, this is shaping up into a pretty fine bourbon. Pretty smooth now but the proof is still a bit high. I'll tone it down to 50% and have a few bourbon & 7s this weekend. Yep, tasting pretty damn good!
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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by NcHooch »

Definitely my go-to 80% of the time. just try and wait till its 2 years old. Congrats.
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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by Bubba Q »

Wow what a great tutorial! I've only done a few runs using a peach and sugar wash in my VM and really want to try this out by removing some of the column's packing. It looks fairly straight forward but I'm somewhat intimidated by the "puke" stories :sick: and may try out UJSSM first.

My question to NcHooch is, can you clarify your last statement about 80%? Realizing you distill to 80%, do you also mean you age it that strong too or do you knock it down to 60% for oaking?

Great job on this topic, I'd sure like to meet some of you guys as the depth of knowledge is incredible! :clap: :clap:
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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by NcHooch »

Hey Bubba,
it's my go-to drink 80% of the time ... :)
(that statement had nuthin to do with ABV)

Did you read something in the thread about puking? ...cause, I don't think I've ever had a bourbon mash puke. ...Barley mash is a different story :shh:

Don't be afraid to ask us if you have questions.
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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by yankeeclear »

Just took a sample today of a batch I have aging on charred oak in glass. After 7 months the bourbon is really starting to take on a silky smoothness and complexity that I am very pleased with. Excellent recipe - many thanks!
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NcHooch
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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by NcHooch »

yankeeclear wrote:Just took a sample today of a batch I have aging on charred oak in glass. After 7 months the bourbon is really starting to take on a silky smoothness and complexity that I am very pleased with. Excellent recipe - many thanks!
Mmmmm, pour me a finger or two YC! Sounds like you've done well. :thumbup:
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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by Exem »

I ran two batches of this recipe (66 % corn, 24 % malted barley, 10 % malted rye) and did not find any puking notes in the new make. And malted barley washes, yes they produced me some puking smell in the new make, but with time this smell diminishes and disappears after 3 -5 months in the bottle even without oak. With oak it goes away quickly, so no problem about puking notes in malted barley washes.
I wish to tell you guys here about my first experience running sugar head i ran last weekend, (before that i used to run all grain mashes only). I simply poured all spent grains from NChooch's Carolina Bourbon recipe into warm water with sugar dissolved in it. O.G. 1.070. As the temperatures were low it took two weeks for it to go down to 1.012. Half of the liquid I pot distilled twice. I did not make any clean cuts neither the first run nor the second.So what i got here i added to the next batch of low wines and distilled again. I simply tried to do it the way Uncle Jesse writes in his UJ recipe. Here I made clean cuts.
And the result is: I noticed that heads and tails of UJ are a bit cleaner and dont smell that nasty as Carolina Bourbon's version. I guess UJ recipe gives a bit more yield than CB as you can go a bit deeper into tails here.
But the most interesting part here is the final product. I tasted both of them side by side as new makes. Simply incomparable spirits. Sugar version is much much lower quality spirit, like simplified and boring version of all grain. There is a taste of nice corn in UJ, but it doesn't grow on the palate, it does not develop, it simply goes away and disappears quickly. While all grain version does the opposite thing - the spirit is full of power, of expression, very very characterful, there is a very decent attack and long lingering finish on the palate and with a sweet very tasteful and sincere corn flavor.
I started aging both versions on new oak and see what happens in future. But as for now I don't feel like i would ever want to run any spirit using sugar. Yes it is more work doing all grain, but it is worth the trouble.
p.s. I don't want here anybody to think that UJ sugar head gives very low quality spirit. I tasted it side by side with store bought vodka, and UJ is much much better.
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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by NcHooch »

Exem wrote: - the spirit is full of power, of expression, very very characterful, there is a very decent attack and long lingering finish on the palate and with a sweet very tasteful and sincere corn flavor.
I just say Mmmmmmmm! ;)
...seriously, I've never done a side by side with UJ (and I'm a big fan of it too) ...but I do feel that the flavor profile is a lot more broad and pronounced in the CB, and that's why I like doing all-grain even though it's a lot more work.
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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by Bubba Q »

Sold! As soon as I stop working out of town, I'm a gonno give this one a go!
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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by MR-E »

G'day NcHooch, I'm getting ready to do my first batch of this & I can't get 6-row malted barley in Aus, just 2-row.
Would I use the same amount of 2-row malted barley :?:

Cheers :thumbup:
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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by NcHooch »

Giddy up Bubba !!

Mr-E ... I don't know what the Litner is for the 2-row you have down under, but as long as it's 125 or better, you should be OK ...if you wanna play it safe, you could pull out 1 pound corn and add another pound of barley.
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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by MR-E »

NcHooch wrote:Giddy up Bubba !!

Mr-E ... I don't know what the Litner is for the 2-row you have down under, but as long as it's 125 or better, you should be OK ...if you wanna play it safe, you could pull out 1 pound corn and add another pound of barley.
Thanks McNooch, I'll check that out when I go to the home brew shop :thumbup:
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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by MR-E »

O.k, I followed the recipe (converted to metric) & here's where I'm up to.
3.2kg of cracked corn
1.4kg of malted barley (Aussie ale)
I dumped the corn into the cooler & added 7ltrs of boiling water & let it soak for 24hrs.
Heated up another 7ltrs of water & added the contents from the cooler & did the three stage cook.
I let that lot cool down to 150F & added the malted barley & it dropped to 145F.
Put that lot into the cooler & stirred every 15mins for 2hrs, each time I opened the cooler & stirred
the mix, the temp would drop so when it got to 141F I decided I will leave it to sit over night.
Tomorrow I'll put it in the fermenter & top up to 26ltrs & add bakers yeast (I don't have anything else)
I won't know how much conversion I will get/have as I don't have anything to test for starch.
This is my first attempt at an all grain mash & I followed the tips from here & it went fairly easy.
And how great is that smell when you add the barley to the mix, I was tempted to grab a spoon & start eating.
Anyway I'll keep you all posted on the results.

Cheers :thumbup:
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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by JERSEYSHINER »

Ran my first of this recipe on friday. Run went great and I collected from 60% down to 20%. Aired out overnight. Had a party yesterday and could not help but to sample a jar. A fiend picked the 60% jar and we sipped till gone. Man that was some good tasting stuff. No bad feeling this morning at all. Thanks for making this recipe very easily understood.
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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by rgarry »

Well, made a batch 5 months ago and finally couldn't wait any longer (don't get me wrong I tasted it out of the still diluted of course). Holy Sh@t was it good. I need to make a batch for x-mas. NChooch you are the man.
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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by NcHooch »

LOL, glad to hear yall are getting some good results .... and enjoying 'em ! :thumbup:

@ Mr-E ... I know what ya mean about the smell of the mash , I gotta admit I always think about breakfast too :)
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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by MR-E »

O.K, I checked the cooler this morning & the mash was thin & the liquid on top was clear, the smell is fantastic.
I dumped it into the fermenter & topped up to 26ltrs & let it settle, took a sample & got an S.G of 1040,
Is that about right for this mash :?:
I pitched 75gr of bakers yeast & she started bubbling about 15min later :D

Cheers :thumbup:
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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by NcHooch »

Not too Bad Mr-E ... especially for your first time .
you'll prolly improve on that as you gain some more experience with the recipe.
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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by MR-E »

NcHooch wrote:Not too Bad Mr-E ... especially for your first time .
you'll prolly improve on that as you gain some more experience with the recipe.
Thank's, the first thing I'm gonna do is get a decent cooler, my temp was dropping too fast &
I think I missed out on some conversion as a result.
I'm also gonna get some ale yeast for the next batch.
How do you like the recipe with the rye in it, compared to the original recipe :?:
Also, are you stirring the mash during the fermentation or letting nature do its job :?:

Cheers :thumbup:
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