Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

[PaulRUK]

Newbie here. Hi all. I have been using an air still up to recently and then took the plunge a month ago and bought a T500. I am waiting for my first Birdwatchers to clear at the moment, but fancy trying another recipe in my quest to get the best neutral (hence being here at WPOSW!). However, I stumbled across the remark that the water used is just as important an ingredient as everything else that is used. I have not considered this before. So, my question is, what SHOULD the pH of the water be (and preferably maintained) and what do you use to increase or decrease it in the wash? We have hard water here, but I am going to buy some strips to test what the pH actually is.

Thanks in advance.

[moose11]

"I'll do the SG on my next batch (whatever that may be)" quote
Sg= specific gravity = use your hydrometer if you want to know what your wash's potential alcohol has, you should spend some time reading in the new distillers reading lounge if you don't understand the terms.
Dextrose would be fine for fermenting a neutral wash, possibly even better than plain white sugar for a neutral but too costly IMHO, I've only used dextrose in beer and wine making.

[SpeedGP]

Oops! I meant "When ever".

Thanks for the help!

[coyoteman]

New to posting on the site, but have been reading info for some time. Just wondering how much ec-1118 yeast to use in Wineos wash ? I have used Birdwatchers wash with great results but wanted to try Wineos because of all the great reviews.

[moose11]

New to posting on the site, but have been reading info for some time. Just wondering how much ec-1118 yeast to use in Wineos wash ? I have used Birdwatchers wash with great results but wanted to try Wineos because of all the great reviews.

Save your money and just use bakers yeast, I tried the lalvin ec-1118 in the sugar wash and found bakers yeast to work better, the kind you can find in the grocery store for $5/lb here in Canada like Fleischmanns. I used 4 oz (rehydrated first in warm water) per 6 gal wash with great results, probably more than is necessary but its cheap enough.

I'm surprised Rad14701 hasn't chimed in on all you newbies , new members are normally asked to introduce themselves in the welcome centre before posting in the forum.

[PaulRUK]

Oops! Sorry moose, how rude of me, I will go and introduce myself now.

[coyoteman]

Thanks for the info Moose11, Thanksgiving bird is smoking on the Treager now its time to start Wineos wash.

[Durace11]

New to posting on the site, but have been reading info for some time. Just wondering how much ec-1118 yeast to use in Wineos wash ? I have used Birdwatchers wash with great results but wanted to try Wineos because of all the great reviews.

If you have the small packets(5g or 11g) use the whole thing, follow the instructions on the back of the packet to rehydrate. Bakers yeast works fine as well. I have used both with this wash and couldn't tell the difference after it was distilled. I typically keep a few packets of EC-1118 on hand for stuck fermentations and when they get old they go into a sugar wash.

[lampshade]

I just made my first batch with my first "simple" pot still, after reading HD for almost a year. I used wineos recipe using generous cuts. At first I thought there was something wrong, because it didn't taste like the commercial vodka I am used to. Later, I bought Grey Goose for Christmas and the taste was familiar --- it tasted like what I made!!!! Wow, home-crafted likker is wonderful, albeit hard work.

CRITICISM WARNING: Pre-HD, I bought a T-500 and thought, after tasting the product, without cuts (since the instructions don't mention that), "Is that all there is." I now know if you follow the recommendations on HD, you can really step up. But you've got to do serious study (or face the wrath of that guy who drinks beer on the outdoor toilet ).

[lampshade]

Also, my first wineos recipes didn't work. I then got a PH meter and adjusted the PH using potassium carbonate. What a difference... the yeast were happy and settled completely after a week.

[Theo]

What ph value make the yeast happy?

Thanks.

[Dnderhead]

a PH of 5 more or less 4 they slow 3.5 stop but will tolerate up to7-8.
the low PH is more to keep bacteria in check.also helps enzymes if mashing.

[lampshade]

The surprising thing for me was my city water is 7.0 pH but I still needed to add a base to keep the yeast happy. I thought my neutral water was adequate, but it was not for wineos recipe and needed additional treatment. Apparently the yeast activity will make the batch acidic, and thus self-limiting, *** for my water *** without a buffer or additional base. The Whitelabs website discusses this. Again, let me emphasize, my problem appears to be my water, and not wineos great recipe. Results will vary.

[Dnderhead]

"The surprising thing for me was my city water is 7.0 pH but I still needed to add a base to keep the yeast happy'
yes thats why some distillery's brag about "natural lime stone springs"

[lampshade]

Might I suggest that recipes mention pH. Meters are not that expensive.

This reminds me of my beef about mentioning "true" power levels (excuse me, Mr. Pissed) when discussing distilling methods. Most power controllers do not indicate true power, although with a little additional effort (particularly by the vendors) they can be calibrated to display true power, not an inaccurate reading from an ammeter that displays apparent AC amps instead of true amps.

[Theo]

a PH of 5 more or less 4 they slow 3.5 stop but will tolerate up to7-8.
the low PH is more to keep bacteria in check.also helps enzymes if mashing.

DH,

Thanks. Will ph test strips work or do I need a meter?

[Dnderhead]

they work with limitations.they can be a bit hard to read.

[ErnieV]

This recipe is for 6 gallons, is that us gallons?

I'm in the UK.

[Durace11]

Typically yes, US gallons. There have been a few mentions on the forum of Imperial gallons but I would say the majority of measurements are in US values unless otherwise stated.

[ErnieV]

Thanks, that's perfect, I'll make 5 imperial.

[ron71157]

Using winoes recipe (thanks) but threw in 1# molasses, 6# brown sugar, 2# white sugar with an SG of 1.075 and pitched lavlin K1-V1116 in an attempt to get a rumlike flavor. I'll see what happens.
Bubbling nicely but the aroma is lets say......interesting. Can't wait to run it and see what it tastes like.

[rgarry]

Ron,
Are you pot stilling? I bet if you reflux, you won't get much flavor unless you run super quick. Most run this because its clean but let us know how it turns out. I have 12 gal bubbling. I find it takes me a month to ferment dry with ec 1118.

[lampshade]

I find it takes me a month to ferment dry with ec 1118.

I found my wash ferments dry within a week if I insure the pH stays above 3 during the first few days. To do that I add 3 tablespoons of potassium carbonate on the second day. Mind you, I was able to tune my recipe by using a pH meter, which are not that expensive. Before adjusting the pH, my washes took forever to ferment dry and settle. "It's all in the water."

[ron71157]

Well i try to run my reflux model as fast as i can with as little cooling to get as much flavor as possible. my last sweetfeed run averaged 140 proof...still bubbling today.i'll let you know how it comes out

[rgarry]

I have some pH stabilization for mashing, but will check pH. I just usually wait it out. Never had one get stuck.

[ErnieV]

I've just done this wash and after a couple of days it's "stuck" at 1030.

Any ideas?

[Dnderhead]

Ive never made this wash, but whats the temperature?
(there are several causes of "stuck" ferments)
1,to much sugar
2,wrong temperature
3,lack of nutrients
4,low PH
5,weak yeast

[ErnieV]

The temperature is a constant 20 degrees C. It is in my brewing cupboard which is monitored and regulated.

PH is low, I used some paper testers on it and it never changed colour at all. What should I add to get it up?

Added the nutrients and a "huge" pack of yeast, it started fine and it's got down to 1030 from 1080 where it started.

[Mr.Brown]

Ernie, might want to bring the temp up a bit. maybe to 26/27 degrees or so. i use sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) to bring my ph up. It's what i have on hand. Foams up a bit though so it could make a bit of a mess if you add it to fast.

[lampshade]

sodium bicarbonate is a "weak" base and much is required to raise the pH. Sodium carbonate (or potassium carbonate) is a much stronger base.

Of course, you won't know that without testing the pH.

As a beer brewer for several years, when I started making vodka I had really lousy luck with sugar washes until I got a pH meter. I think that advice should be strongly shared with all who make sugar washes. A tried and true sugar wash recipe is not guaranteed to work for you because your water will be different. If I may be so bold, I would recommend that all sugar wash recipes include pH requirements, unless the recipe provides sufficient pH buffering to account for the water that the vast majority of readers will have to use.