Pre gelatized corn starch

[wv_hillbilly]

I have access to pre gelatized corn starch via my line of work. Would this work to use, or save me any time? I have searched the site for it and found nothing. If it is here can someone link it for me? Thanks for the help!

[Dnderhead]

corn starch converted will make corn syrup,witch makes a vodka or neutral.

[snksknr]

corn starch converted will make corn syrup,witch makes a vodka or neutral.

What is the difference between pre gelled and fresh gelled? Why is it that when we make fresh cornstarch and convert it its called whiskey, if its not refluxed? But if its pre cooked it is automaticlly considered a vodka/neutral. Not trying to be a smartass, but this was somwhat of a question I had floating around in my head for a while. Can't I just buy pure cornstarch and make whiskey after converting it to corn syrup?

[Dnderhead]

corn starch wont have the flavor that whole/cracked corn does.
per jelled means its precooked but thats not the problem.
it more like comparing whole grain bread that has a bunch of flavor
to bland white flour bread that has little flavor.most of the flavor comes
from the halls germ and other parts that have been removed.
as all but the starch is removed there is no flavor left.thus
not having flavor it be a vodka or a neutral depending how it was run/distilled.

[wv_hillbilly]

corn starch wont have the flavor that whole/cracked corn does.
per jelled means its precooked but thats not the problem.
it more like comparing whole grain bread that has a bunch of flavor
to bland white flour bread that has little flavor.most of the flavor comes
from the halls germ and other parts that have been removed.
as all but the starch is removed there is no flavor left.thus
not having flavor it be a vodka or a neutral depending how it was run/distilled.

OK, that makes sense then. Darn, I'm not a vodka man myself.

[goinbroke2]

If you can get it cheap/free, then grab it! Make some neutral and blend with your wiskey. Softens the taste of the whiskey and makes it go farther.


Jeepers...never turn down free likker making material...

[wv_hillbilly]

If you can get it cheap/free, then grab it! Make some neutral and blend with your wiskey. Softens the taste of the whiskey and makes it go farther.


Jeepers...never turn down free likker making material...

Sounds like a good idea. I'm still a noob though. I'm not building a reflux, just a pot and worm, would that effect running a vodka?

[Dnderhead]

its just a matter of making a good mash/wash and distilling several times until you have the product that you want.
it dont need to be 95% to be vodka,it needs to be "clean tasting"
the starch you have mite be just the thing?

[goinbroke2]

I just got back from the local beer/wine place, I bought a pack of vodka pure turbo yeast. Not because I wanted yeast or anything to do with turbo's, I wanted the Amyloglucoside enzymes and that's all she had. So, I'll try it.

Dnderhead answered perfectly, run it the first time as a strip run. The second time as a spirit run and then run it a third time as a spirit run. It will come out neutral from a potstill after three time. (or neutral enough to add to whisky ect)

Same idea that some commercial distilleries use in blending their whiskeys, they make a really strong tasting/smelling single malt and then tone it down by blending with NGS. (neutral grain spirit) Not everybody likes or wants a super harsh whiskey like glenfidich or laphroag, the masses want a lighter tasting whiskey to drink straight or mix.

[wv_hillbilly]

Sounds like a good idea. I'm going to give it a try once I get my still finished and see how it turns out. Fingers crossed.

[Xnerd]

I have seen 50lb bags of corn starch for as little as 23 dollars.

Has anyone here ever supplemented their AG with a couple of lbs of pure cornstarch to up the apv?
There are SOOOO many recipes that I see that mash grains and then in then turn around and dump table sugar in it!
If you are of the mindset that an All Grain mash does not give you "enough", it would seem to me that adding additional starch would be the better choice then harshing the batch with cane sugar....

Or is it the same?

With my extreme limited experience with AG, I have assumed that the harsh off flavors that you get will sugar washes was due to the high glucose...
Or do the off tastes come from high gravity mashes in general?

[Dnderhead]

corn starch converted will for the most part be fructose or dextrose ether or name you want.
its one of the simple sugars so its a bit easier on the yeast therefor a bit cleaner spirits,but that does not give you the goahead to make high abv wash,alcohol is toxic to yeast.
so you mite say their sh#@ing in there own drinking water.

[Xnerd]

Thank you Dnderhead,

I was thinking more along the line of an alternative to for people that already make thin washes using some all grain and some sugar.
There are a whole lot of moonshine recipes, even very old ones that use extra cane sugar.

it might help out a mash that has passed the starch test but has very very low APV.

I dont know, just speculating that it might be a better alternative.

[wv_hillbilly]

I can get the stuff free from work, I'm going to give it a try and see how it goes. Probably run it neutral and mix it with some whiskey.

[bellybuster]

I've been researching this form of starch and see you can only get it from pharmaceutical companies. It also is not necessarily corn, it can be tapioca or potato or any other starchy substance.

[wv_hillbilly]

You can get it from other than pharm companies. This is not what I do, and it is actual corn starch, we also have potato starch, but our office doesnt carry it.

[wv_hillbilly]

Just a quick question on this since I'm still newbish, with this cornstarch, I will still need to heat it up awhile and all that good stuff before letting it sit to ferment? Since its pre cooked, I don't need to add any malt correct? And I shouldn't need sugar with this, do I have this all correct?

[Dnderhead]

you wont need to cook,but still need to convert,with enzymes or malt.

[Uncle Jemima]

WV. If you don't use malt you'll need to use enzymes instead to convert. The gelled corn breaks the starches down so that the enzymes found in malt or powdered enzymes can more easily break them down to fermentable sugars. At least that's my understanding of it in my limited all grain experience.

Good luck. I've thought of trying to do some vodka in my pot still. I'm not a vodka drinker myself but have friends and family who are. I'd like to see if I can make a high quality vodka for them.

Not sure if this is considered off topic or not. But when you do a spirit run of vodka in a pot still. On your second and third runs do you make your cuts as you would with a whiskey run? I'm guessing watering it down to 40%!or less to make your runs helps clean it up too.

Thanks.

[wv_hillbilly]

Thanks for the help guys, as to your question uncle jemima,this would be my first run at vodka, plan on doing a stripping run, then seeing how it comes out on my spirit run, might do a 3rd run depending on how clean it is after the second. From my understanding with this corn starch, most of the good flavors were removed in the cooking process, so it will probably be fairly neutral anyway. Hope this helps.

[Uncle Jemima]

I think it actually loses a lot of its flavor from the starch being separated from the rest of the corn kernel from what Dnder said but I get your meaning and I may have misunderstood that part. I was just curious if the cuts would be similar. I know you're supposed to cut based on taste but I usually base it on UJSSM guideline and cut from around 80%-65%.

Something else to consider WV. Even though your corn starch will be mostly neutral you'll probably get some flavor from whatever malt grain you use to convert it. Not sure how much but it could be enough to need that third run.

Or I could be completely wrong. Just thinking out loud I guess and bouncing ideas around.

Please post how it works out for you when you try it. Like I said. I'm considering doing vodka with a pot still too. I'll probably end up using a neutral from the tried and true board since I don't have the access to the cooked corn starch you do.

[Hellfire burner]

In my opinion cornstarch is great to make a high proof sense it won't have any real flavor you can add a fruit to your mash or what ever rocks your boat for some flavor