uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

[Kittra]

Can I pitch over the distillers yeast? I have moved both washes into a small bathroom and set the temp to 75* Should they be stirred or left alone......Kittra

PS...this is only the 2nd day

[Ghost]

I have read over you post in this and I will be honest I dont have much to add that others havent. At what temp was the wash when you pitched the yeast? Are you following the recipe as listed? Might help to list step by step so others can see what you are up to and might be able to solve the problem. I am sure there is enough collective thought here to solve it.

[CuWhistle]

@kittra:- This may sound silly but proof your yeast to make sure it's viable. Mix a spoon of sugar in some tepid water and float your yeast on it then cover loosely with cling film. If you came back in 10 minutes and she's bubbling up, your yeast is good and you can then add to the wash. If not it's dead and you'll need to get new stuff. I have had whole tubs of bakers yeast die in the pantry and it is recommended you keep it refridgerated once open.

Yes, you can pitch new yeast over old. The old dead yeast cells will become nutrient for the live stuff. I brew beer alongside my UJ and when I rack it off to the secondary fermenter I pour the remaining yeast cake slurry straight into the UJ. It doesn't really do anything but it just saves me from taking it outside to dump it and I figure it can't hurt.

You say that everything is cleaned and sterilised. With what and in what concentrations? If you are sterilising heavy and not rinsing it out well enough this could kill your yeast immediately. I have found that most internet and other brewing / fermenting information is overly concerned about sterilisation. I follow a very simple method of just keeping everything clean by rinsing under running water immediately after use and then air drying and covering up. Put your buckets out in the sun for a few hours after you've rinsed them. Use nylon scourer pads to remove stuborn yeast buildup, not metalic as this scratches the surface leaving lodgings for contaminants. I don't even sterilise my beer bottles. Just rinse, drip and air dry then put them in the box inverted to prevent insects, which incidently have caused more failure than other contamination.

[ipee7ABV]

are you putting sugar in your uj?

[Kittra]

I have followed UJSSM recipe to the letter, in exact amounts of filtered water, # of corn and sugar. Any yeast except distillers yeast have been proofed. In reference to cleaning and sterilizing my equipment, I wash everything with hot soapy water and rinse well. I follow that with LD Carlson easy clean. I have a stainless steel mixing paddle which is cleaned and put in boiling water. All buckets, carboys, mashing pot and the still itself are cleaned this way and dried in the sun. I even clean my thermometers, airlocks and stoppers. The pot still has been cleaned with vinegar and distilled water at 212* and I run a gallon through at least.I have tried to be exact, but I'm missing something. I have run one 5 gallon wash in all this time. Got 3 quarts of high octane hooch from that. I dumped the first 500 ml and started collecting. i got every where from 80% down to 40% at around 198 * I collected till the taste was not so good, and put the tails in the cabinet. I combined the rest and cut some to 80 proof and some to 40 to kick up mamma's peach schnapps. My still is a SS 32 qt stock pot, with two 1" copper lyne arms going to the worm. The worm is 5/8" copper tubing. Heated with a 35,000 BTU propane burner. That's about all I can say, I hope I have explained my try's well enough for someone to see what i am doing wrong. Also I have bumped my fermentation temp to 75* constant...Thank you all very much for the reply's and advice.........Kittra

[southern traditions]

I have followed UJSSM recipe to the letter, in exact amounts of filtered water, # of corn and sugar. Any yeast except distillers yeast have been proofed. In reference to cleaning and sterilizing my equipment, I wash everything with hot soapy water and rinse well. I follow that with LD Carlson easy clean. I have a stainless steel mixing paddle which is cleaned and put in boiling water. All buckets, carboys, mashing pot and the still itself are cleaned this way and dried in the sun. I even clean my thermometers, airlocks and stoppers. The pot still has been cleaned with vinegar and distilled water at 212* and I run a gallon through at least.I have tried to be exact, but I'm missing something. I have run one 5 gallon wash in all this time. Got 3 quarts of high octane hooch from that. I dumped the first 500 ml and started collecting. i got every where from 80% down to 40% at around 198 * I collected till the taste was not so good, and put the tails in the cabinet. I combined the rest and cut some to 80 proof and some to 40 to kick up mamma's peach schnapps. My still is a SS 32 qt stock pot, with two 1" copper lyne arms going to the worm. The worm is 5/8" copper tubing. Heated with a 35,000 BTU propane burner. That's about all I can say, I hope I have explained my try's well enough for someone to see what i am doing wrong. Also I have bumped my fermentation temp to 75* constant...Thank you all very much for the reply's and advice.........Kittra

So if this is your method, where is the problem? In this one run you say you got 3 quarts @ 80%. Whats was your total take on that run?

[GimmieCrackedCorn]

Hey everyone I'm just curious, do you have to remove the spent corn? I'm currently on my 3rd generation of this recipe that I have slightly modified. I'm using 6.5 gallon glass carboys and I have no idea how to remove the spent corn. Also, every Wednesday I rack my ferment into another carboy then I add 3.5 gallons of water and 7 pounds of sugar to the other one. Then on Fridays i run my racked wash. After I run my racked wash I add 2 gallons of backset to the other carboy and repeat. After my second gen sour mash I decided to run a GC on it and it came back with 2000ppm propyl acetate by weighted percentage. Anyone care to shed any light on this. Is that normal? Is that harmful? I threw away the first 200ml and kept everything else down to 40% as low wines and then kept everything from 40% down to 10% for feints. Any help will be greatly appreciated, thanks.

[travelin man]

Can I use fresh corn and backset to start a new ferment?

[travelin man]

Never mind! Duh! I'm not thinking sorry for the stupid question!

[genewms]

I'm going to try this request for thoughts one more time:

I'm thinking the advantage of using all corn (or any single grain) is that the taste can be held constant because you are always only adding just one grain back to the next ferment. If one added mixed graiin bill of rye, barley, etc.(and I'd like to do just that) to get different flavor, I would think that the different grains get consumed at different rates and you would not know how much of each grain type to add back in each later generation. I have seen where people are using different ratios of grains, but how does one know how much of each to add back into the next ferment? You could keep the ratio of grains constant in adding new grain to later ferments but that assumes the different grains get consumed at equal rates. Thoughts???

[ipee7ABV]

I'm going to try this request for thoughts one more time:

I'm thinking the advantage of using all corn (or any single grain) is that the taste can be held constant because you are always only adding just one grain back to the next ferment. If one added mixed graiin bill of rye, barley, etc.(and I'd like to do just that) to get different flavor, I would think that the different grains get consumed at different rates and you would not know how much of each grain type to add back in each later generation. I have seen where people are using different ratios of grains, but how does one know how much of each to add back into the next ferment? You could keep the ratio of grains constant in adding new grain to later ferments but that assumes the different grains get consumed at equal rates. Thoughts???

i have 2. the first is that the flavor profile is constanty changeing. with every backset you add it changes. does not matter if it is corn or a combo. what the grain is mostly used for in a sugar head is nutrients and flavor. i put in my ratio and dont add any grains till it wont finish. then i change all my grain.

[genewms]

With a single grain, the changing flavor profile from generation to generation should be mostly a change in intensity of a single grain. With multiple grains, the flavor profile may well change gen to gen not only from intensity but from a different grain(s) adding flavor as it/they ferments at a different rate. Not ever chaging the grain keeps the ratio contsant in the fermenter but it still may be that the barley is consumed before the rye for example and therefore would show up in flavor at a different time. Also, I would expect that various physical forms (cracked, rolled, malted, etc) would be consumed by the yeast at varying rates.
Heated mashes force fermentation of all the grains so the resultant spirit can have a constant flavor from batch to batch. I suppose the same could be done in a no heat fermentation/sugarhead wash if one keep all the distilled spirits from all the generations and blended them in the same way. Just trying to be able to reproduce a flavor using UJSSM if I find one that is particularly pleasing.

[PGHRedneck]

So i read this recipe over(and all 177pages) and really cant find very many if at all that just run it straight off a pot still once. Or keep anything from one run. I made two runs so far of this recipie and the middle jars don't seem half bad but i am still a noob so just wanted someone else's opinion. Or is it just easier and faster to strip and then run a spirit run? And is it easier to make cuts on a spirit run then if you ran a stripping run slowly?

Details: Running 10gallons of mash, pot still with a 2" x 24" height reduced down to 1/2" over 18" and then a 36" condenser.

My first two runs i got 9 jars at 600mL (not counting the first 600ml i threw out because i hear early heads and fores are no good) and then once it got lower i got about another 1000ml till it got down to 30% or so. I did for the second run pour all but the three middle jars from run 1 back into the boiler for the run and got a bit higher abv.

Run2 went jar 1:70%, 2:68, 3:66, 4:65, 5:63, 6:60, 7:60, 8:55, 9:50
Run1 i forgot to write it down. but was about 60%-40% from jar 1 to 9

[yankeeclear]

So i read this recipe over(and all 177pages) and really cant find very many if at all that just run it straight off a pot still once. Or keep anything from one run.

The first run will be lower ABV and lower quality than adding the first run to the second as UJ process recommends. Combining the first with the second run allows you to start with a higher ABV resulting in a higher ABV product. It also allows you to double-distill some of the product generally resulting in higher quality.

Personally, I tried the recipe and process presented by UJ of adding the product of the first run to the second run but prefer the result of multiple stripping runs followed by a spirit run. Be your own judge and experiment.

My recommendation is to follow the recipe until you can make the product consistently. Save off some of the shine to compare against your later experimentation. Also take samples of the middles for each run and label them. When you have samples from enough runs of increasing generations sit down and sample them side by side to determine for yourself the changes in the flavor. Then compare that to the product of a "combined first and second run". Then you will see why most do not take the mids from a single run or perhaps determine that a single run works for you.

[BoomTown]

for me, as far as the runs are concerned, I've become accustomed to keeping about a quart of the hearts near the top of the run out as sipping stuff, and collecting therest until I have enough for a Spirit Run ( for me that's about 4 or 5 gallons of stripping run output). Then I add what ever is left over from the sipping snags back into the Spirit Run and usually walk away with about 3.5 gallons of pretty good stuff. Won't know what they taste like for a 8 more months as I've dropped all that into the 10L Oak Casks I bought, and plan to leave them sit for a year after they fill up.

That way i'm getting enough for my weekly sipping, staying out of the state owned liquor store, and having lots of fun. Actually I've moved away from the UJ recipe, in favor of different AG recipes for each cask. I'm making AG's from just corn, corn and barley, corn and rye, corn, barley and rye, and corn, barley and wheat. When I find the bourbon taste I'm looking for, I'll settle on a recipe, and have plenty to gift out to the family at Christmas and birthday time. Well, that's the plan anyway....

But truthfully, I'm very excited about this hobby,

[PGHRedneck]

I will take all that information into consideration. I love how there are so many variables to this hobby that you can change so much and some stuff so minor can change an entire flavor profile. I have a pretty desensitized sense of smell from past jobs and such so i go by taste and proof more then smell. I will keep experimenting and so far am enjoying this hobby quite a bit as well, and the information is very helpful and overloading at times, i just want to do it safely and go for quality not quantity.

thanks again

[Ridgerunnr]

3rd generation so far...man it gets better w every run. The mash usually takes 3 days for 6gal..however I noticed
The last one wasn't as "busy" so I added washed egg shells after some reading here.
I'm on day 5 and its still going strong as ever.

[southern traditions]

So i read this recipe over(and all 177pages) and really cant find very many if at all that just run it straight off a pot still once. Or keep anything from one run.

PHG,
I do, just depends on what plans I have for the spirit. I have friends that like the taste of single run spirit over multiple run spirits. For my single run spirit I collect in 1/2 pint and pint jars. After pulling the fores and heads and early hearts I start my collecting in 1/2pint jars til I hit the 70-65% ABV range, then switch to pint jars. I collect in pints until I hit in the 55-60%ABV range which for me usually keeps me out of the tails or gives me only the very earliest tails which provide some good flavors without the wet cardboard smell or flavors.. I then blend the pints collected based on taste and might use one of the 1/2 pints of early hearts based on taste. This combination usually gives me a very nice, clear, flavored 120-125 proof single run spirit that needs no dilution and is very drinkable.
The heads, unused early hearts, and tails/everything below my cutoff point go into my feints jar and get run again at a later date..

I hope this helps,
Martin

[Stillallday]

Question, do I only use the alcohol that comes off the still on the second run and save the mash leftover in the still for more mashes, or is the mash in the still drinkable to? Thanks for the help, sorry if this question seems odd.

[Odin]

Please do some introductory reading.

Odin.

[Ghost]

WOW - is the mash in the still drinkable? I know 177 pages is a lot to read but honestly - go back and read the entire thread. And trust me I am not trying to be a ass about it but if you dont know the answer to that question then you have no business running a still. the 177 pages give you tons of info and breaks it all down pretty simple. As a matter of fact read it once and then read it again!

[Kittra]

Good day every one
I just wanted to thank you all for the tips concerning UJSSM. I boosted ferment temp TO 80*, over pitched the bakers yeast and transferred to a 5 gal carboy. That rascal took off and did its thing for 5 days before it slowed to less that a bubble per min. I let it settle , strained into my boiler and that was the beginning. I discovered my thermometer was off 10*. I purchased a new digital and things looked a lot better. I took my cuts by taste and it will be a while before this is mastered. It came off the still at 120 proof and I took it down to 20% ABV. Took 1.5 gal of back set added to more corn and sugar, added 2.5 gal of water and started another ferment. I will let you know about generation #2....I am so pleased

[thewildtype]

having read through the many pages of this thread, i am still a bit mystified as to the sequence of using the feints and backset. i've got 2 5 gallon washes that have fermented out and are ready to go, but i want to be sure that i haven't misread uj's and everyone else's recommendations.

1. do a stripping run, collect ALL of the feints, put em back in and
2. do a second, slower run, collect feints, save hearts, put 25% backset back into fermenter
3. let wash ferment out, charge still and add feints from second run, do third run
4. the distillate from this run will be the first "true" sour-mash, even tho it is only 2nd gen
5. put 25% backset of third run back into fermenter, ferment out, charge still, ad infinitum.

does this sound like a solid, straightforward sequence if i decide not to do the 4-5 stripping runs + spirit run, as i noticed some of yall prefer? many thanks for any recommendations! can't wait to get started this weekend!

[DuckofDeath]

1 do stripping run take this backset for next fermentation
2 collect enough to water down to less than 80proof and then rerun going slower and making cuts

[yankeeclear]

1 do stripping run take this backset for next fermentation
2 collect enough to water down to less than 80proof and then rerun going slower and making cuts

+1

[Odin]

I find diluting to 30% may even get you slightly better results. At 30%/60 proof, none of the hearts on the spirit run will be above 80%/160 proof, so no taste lost due to very high alcohol concentration.

Odin.

[Stillallday]

Okay, thanks for the help. Never knew such a simple process could be so over complicated by a group of people. I have got it down though. Thanks

[thewildtype]

1 do stripping run take this backset for next fermentation
2 collect enough to water down to less than 80proof and then rerun going slower and making cuts

+1

1 i get. 2, though, still confuses me. when you say collect enough to water down to less than 80 proof, are you referring to the distillate from the stripping run in step 1? am i right in assuming that for my second run, i'll charge my still with the what i've collected (watered down to less than 80 proof) AND the 2nd wash, fermented out (and containing backset from my stripping run)?

man i apologize if this sounds dense! hopefully other novices can benefit from this question too. wanna do uj proud and run this one straight by the book. thanks duckofdeath, yankeeclear, and odin.

-wildtype

[DuckofDeath]

No need to feel bad there is alot to absorb.

Keep doing stripping runs until you get anough to waterdown to less than 80 proof and fill your boiler. So if you normally do 5 gallons of wash, you need 2 gallons of low wines. Water that down to 5 gallons and redistill it. This is now called your spirit run. You lose some flavor but the final product is much smoother, and cuts are easier to taste and smell.

[yankeeclear]

1 do stripping run take this backset for next fermentation
2 collect enough to water down to less than 80proof and then rerun going slower and making cuts

+1

1 i get. 2, though, still confuses me. when you say collect enough to water down to less than 80 proof, are you referring to the distillate from the stripping run in step 1? am i right in assuming that for my second run, i'll charge my still with the what i've collected (watered down to less than 80 proof) AND the 2nd wash, fermented out (and containing backset from my stripping run)?

man i apologize if this sounds dense! hopefully other novices can benefit from this question too. wanna do uj proud and run this one straight by the book. thanks duckofdeath, yankeeclear, and odin.

-wildtype

Note that this is a variation on the original UJSSM recipe, which may be adding to the confusion. In this variation, the common practice of multiple stripping runs + a spirit run is followed.

1. Put your fully fermented UJSSM wash (only wash) into the boiler.
2. Run your still as hot and fast as you are can while still cooling all the vapor. You do not want to run so hot that you are unable to cool the ethanol vapor and it escapes as steam.
3. Collect all of the distillate down to 20% ABV or so. After ~20% it gets pretty inefficient to wring more ethanol from the wash and arguably quality falls off as well
4. After distillate cools, dilute to 40% ABV (or lower if you like)
5. Repeat steps 1-4 until you have enough diluted distillate to fill the boiler for a spirit run
6. Run your still much slower this time. Take cuts starting toward the end of the heads, through the middles and into the tails. Taste (just a little bit) along the run to determine where to start/ stop cuts taking cuts.

Hope that helps clarify the process. Search the forum for more information on stripping run, spirit run, cuts, ABV, etc for more background. Always search before posting.

Cheers!