rtalbigr wrote:
Once again, the most important concept is time. These chemical reactions and changes do not occur within a few weeks, or even a few months. In my experience, 14-16 months is a minimum and longer is better.
Big R
I don't think anyone here is disagreeing with you. The change in this thread to ultra sonic is my fault as I toured a distillery that I thought had some of the best products on the market. He aged his whiskey in oak barrels but he also did something to smooth out his product. When I got him to hint about it by asking about his adding flavors and does he infuse or use another method. He said he does not infuse and was the only one in the US that does it this way and learned a similar method in Germany. He has a patent on what he does and it has to do with his method or equipment. Upon further research and talking with Odin we believe his method is very similar to what Odin does. On the back of his bottles it says " created through a patented process where revolutionary art and science allow the transformation of distilled spirits into incredibly smooth, ultra premium luxury." He talked about inducing bubbles through a chemical process.
I haven't come across anything Bushman where ultra sonic was used on aged spirits. However, I have read a couple of articles where ultra sonic was used on vodka and as I recall it did positively affect the product. Since vodka isn't my main interest I didn't mark or copy the articles, hence, I can't recall anything specific. It would be interesting to see a controlled experiment with aged whiskey.
Big R
"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." William Pitt
And does it tend to be better results than ultra sonic on oak or does it bring out more woody flavor? When i did it on oak, it seemed to make it woody.
AJ
"Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?"
I did it before putting it on the oak and after taking it of the oak. Only once did I do i with oak parts in it. I don't remember taste tests, but said to myself that even though us-treatment also helps extract wood, it will do so only from the outside, and left it at that. Ultrasonic treatment indeed ages vodka. In so far ageing is needed. It brings back ageing time from 5 weeks to around a few days. I think I read the posts Big R writes about. It is also stated that some sugar seems to be beneficial to the vodka ageing process. I have no experience in that since I feel sugar has no place in a good vodka. But I can concur that vodka's are ripened much faster like this. I can also say that treating a white whiskey will smooth it out much faster. And that - after taking it of the wood - a wood aged whiskey will smooth out and mature much faster as well. That does not mean it replaces "time", as Big R correctly states. It just speeds things up. For me it is a help, because I am always low on stock. Too many people like my stuff. Imagine there is a birthday party coming up. Or we head of to meet the family in law in Hungary. What do I say to them: "sorry, next year I will bring some" or "here it is!", having given everything a few extra us-treatments.
To sumarize, and just my 2 cents, I think us-treatment helps age product faster. It does not give better results than ageing for a long time in the traditional way. Just faster. It works on vodkas and whiskey (white & aged on wood). It works for extracting flavours on herbs (for my geneva). It does extract colour from wood faster (by puting wood in likker and both in the us-cleaner), but that's not the same as "extracting vannillins, tanines, etc." from the wood. I think it is not suited for getting over more wood quicker. Imagine you put in oak and give it a treatment ... the oak isn't saturated in a minute. Actually saturation takes a few days. So wood in us-cleaner means it is just scraping wood particles of the outside of the wood.
Odin.
Odin.
"Great art is created only through diligent and painstaking effort to perfect and polish oneself." by Buddhist filosofer Daisaku Ikeda.
rtalbigr wrote:
I haven't come across anything Bushman where ultra sonic was used on aged spirits. However, I have read a couple of articles where ultra sonic was used on vodka and as I recall it did positively affect the product. Since vodka isn't my main interest I didn't mark or copy the articles, hence, I can't recall anything specific. It would be interesting to see a controlled experiment with aged whiskey.
Big R
Did you read the link I posted on the first page of this thread, goes into some detail? I am actually more interested in smoothing and adding different flavors in a neutral, if it helps with the aging of whiskey then that would be a bonus.
Bushman wrote:
Did you read the link I posted on the first page of this thread, goes into some detail? I am actually more interested in smoothing and adding different flavors in a neutral, if it helps with the aging of whiskey then that would be a bonus.
Ya, I've been following this thread. Funny, I new I read that Posci article because I have a subscription, it's an interesting magazine, but sometimes my brain freezes up.
Big R
"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." William Pitt
As i received my order of charred and toasted white Oak in the mail yesterday, this is all great reading, especially since my next round of sweet feed is finishing in the fermenter.
one detail i was looking for, maybe i missed it, was:
how long time-wise do you run the ultrasonic treatment?
i am going to post this and then run to my storage closet and dig out my old ultrasonic cleaner!!!
Rastus wrote:As i received my order of charred and toasted white Oak in the mail yesterday, this is all great reading, especially since my next round of sweet feed is finishing in the fermenter.
one detail i was looking for, maybe i missed it, was:
how long time-wise do you run the ultrasonic treatment?
i am going to post this and then run to my storage closet and dig out my old ultrasonic cleaner!!!
R
Odin posted it on page two of the thread, better to read it than have me try to explain.
Okay, I will rephrase: "Don't put ice in your genever, and pour yourself a bigger genever!"
Hmmm ... I just poured myself one. And mixing up some new stuff as we speak. Pretty much everything I had ageing as a whiskey is now ... ageing as a genever.
Off topic, sorry.
Odin.
"Great art is created only through diligent and painstaking effort to perfect and polish oneself." by Buddhist filosofer Daisaku Ikeda.
Judging by the number of views on this thread, it seems there are a lot of people having the same thoughts about the oaking process. I hesitated to start my original post as i know the information is most likely already been posted in other threads.
I have now had my 3 one gallon jugs on charred oak for about a week. Three sticks of oak each bottle. Abv is at 60%. I have also put them on a heating pad with a towel over them and turn the blanket on during the day and turn off at night.
It is coloring up nicely, but more important, it is smelling nice too. I will do a tasting this weekend. Will also post a pic.
AJ
"Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?"
PS: just when I was going to purchase an ultra sonic cleaner off eBay my neighbor how's son sells medical supplies is going to see if he can come up with one for me.
Ah haven't been on here in awhile. stopping making UJSSM runs about august of last year. All the whiskey I made last year is basically just testing. If I ruin it by overoaking I just dump it in my still and re-run it. So me and the wife started a new lifestyle of eating healthy and we almost cut out all of our alcohol consumption. This has allowed me to experiment with my hootch. Right now my "drinking stock" , which I have about 3.5 mason jars left of, was aged for 6 months on medium oak (3 pieces of 1/2"
square by 6 inches) plus a vanilla bean. its heaven, store bought bourbon tastes sharp and stingy compared to my stuff. I also have 3 gallons of long term aging done. One was junk liquor, all the nasty heads and tails i didn't wanna throw away. I deliberately "over oaked" this. I used about 4 big pices of oak and 4 or 5 smaller oak pieces all at different thicknesses. I did the same to another gallon that was "good" hootch. the last gallon is done like my drinking stock its about 8 months old. The over oaked jars are about 7 months old. All are at around 60-65%. Just cleaned some of the jars up, took all the heavy out and and put a small section of charred spiral in the skank jar, and lighter oak in the others. Taste? Wow. just wow. I can't taste any over - oaking, the mix of flavors is just unreal. However they are gonna go longer I'll probably age them for awhile yet. Let me tell you even if the stuff isn't that great time smooths it all out. Also the over oaked jars are much darker, the color is amazing
