a simple all grain corn likker

[newengland]

I use this recipe, which I obtained and modified a bit from the website my still kit came from.
I single distill and get hearts from 140 to 110 proof.
I have never been able to sample other peoples' home distilled corn likker, but mine tastes similar to Prichard's or White Dog commercial white whiskies. I think.


5 gallons of water
8.5 pounds of feed corn--home ground to a course meal
1.5 pounds of malted barley--home ground rough
1 packet of champagne yeast

Heat 5 gallons of water up to 165F
Turn off heat and stir in the corn.
Stir mash continuously for about 5 minutes then stir for a few seconds every five minutes until the temperature drops to
152F.
Stir in malted barley.
Cover and leave it be for about 90 minutes, uncovering only to stir every 15 minutes or so.
Let sit till 96 degrees.
Stir in packet of champagne yeast.
Aerate (by dumping back and forth between two containers).
cap, and air lock.
Let ferment till bubbling stops in airlock (I figure if it doesn't bubble in five to ten minutes it's ready to go.

[Dnderhead]

two things,,1) not enough malt.even if you used 6 row,,2) with out cooking the corn not much will happen.

[newengland]

OK. I understand. Original recipe called for flaked corn. When I modified to unprocessed corn,I forgot that I would have to cook it myself. Regarding the malt, I can't go over 20% and still get corn whiskey, which requires 80% corn minimum. I will increase malt to 20% and correct corn process. Thanks. I think it is interesting that even without cooking the corn and with the small amount of malt I yet got decent amounts and proofs of whiskey. I also now understand the gelatinous (I have read the thread about gelatinizing the grains) quality of the cooked corn that I observed when I did my first attempt using a scaled down Foxfire recipe. Foxfire observes that the mash stick will stand by itself in the cooked corn and that one should dilute until the stick leans of its own accord to the side of the container. Well, thanks again. I won't be cooking and distilling for a couple of weeks, but I will let you know how it comes out. My ultimate solution to this is to malt my corn so that I can have as much malt as I want/need and yet have a grain bill for corn whiskey.

[newengland]

I am going to wait on developing my corn whiskey recipe until summer and I can more easily malt the corn.

[Matteaux]

I am planning a similar recipe but from what little I know I agree need more malt. I am working a 10 gallon batch and am going to smoke my corn before grinding.

7lbs smoked ground corn
3 lbs malted 6 row
2 packets whiskey yeast
10 gallons water
10 lbs sugar

May up it to 10lbs of corn and 5 barley still contemplating

I will be happy to share results when it comes around. Still about a month out.

[newengland]

Okay, I've been working on this corn likker.
My goal is to make corn whiskey according to the FOXFIRE description.
After malting corn four or five times and failing to produce wash each time,
I began a few months before I got on the forum with Kyle's recipe for corn whiskey from his Clawhammer site.
Kyle's recipe promised to produce the most authentic corn whiskey I was likely to make as a beginner.
I got whiskey every time I used Kyle's recipe.
But these were little amounts using Kyle's 1 gal. copper pot still.
So I got on the forum.
I learned that I was not treating my corn correctly.
Kyle's recipe called for flaked maize.
I used home-ground coarse corn meal.
So, of course, I was probably not getting sufficient gelatinization of the corn.
Someone on the forum pointed this out.
So I studied mashing.
And I fooled around with different cooking times and amounts of wash.
And I did a couple of runs of apple cider.
All of which got me acquainted with my five gallon still and stilling without thermometer.
I eventually adapted Smiley's mashing process to my own needs,
But the first time I made this Smiley-type mash I put in malt at too low a temp, so did not get conversion.
So I threw four pounds of sugar into a two gallon wash.
Boy did that ferment! And I had never intended to use sugar, always wanting an all grain.
So I got about a liter and a pint of middles from that run.
Won't use sugar again unless I need to, and I have a nice four gallon all grain corn/barley fermenting as I write this.
So this is an update on my recipe development for a good old-fashioned corn likker.
Now that it is getting warmer, I will start malting corn again to see if I can succeed there.
But thanks for the help with the corn cooking and also with understanding fractions and cuts better and for encouragement for distilling without thermometer.

[Dnderhead]

the distillers use "distillers malt" that has a DP of 200.
I thank a few brew shops have it and mile high.

[newengland]

Thanks. I know that I could be using a more powerful malt. I am willing to sacrafice some abv in deference to being a bit "old-timey." I hope that doesn't seem foolish. I also do not use turbo yeast, but I have been told on forum that my Lalvin 1118 might not be ideal. So I am looking for another yeast that might be both traditional and effective. I'm going to try this summer to get a ferment going with wild yeast, although I have read about the difficulties of that. Thanks again, and I will update in a while once I have done a couple of ferments and runs. Oh, not to go on, but I have also decided to double distill, so I will do three ferments and stripping runs and then a whiskey run with that material.

[greasydog26]

Sounds like you are determined to figure this out. I would definatley be interested in the results as it seems like what I'm interested in as well. What kind of still are you working with?

[newengland]

I have built two Clawhammer copper pot stills: 1 gal and 5 gal. The 1 gal's column is capped with a cork, so I have a thermometer stuck in there at the top of the column. I kept the 5 gal intact with no thermometer. What are you using?

[Uncle Jemima]

Double distillation with all grain seems to be the best way to get a decent volume of good heart cuts. When you start out doing sugar head washes it really surprises you how much less yield you get on all grains. Definitely worth the extra time and effort though.

[newengland]

So, combining the clawhammer recipe with Smiley's procedures for mashing and fermenting and my reading on the forum and trying to edge toward my druthers for replicating a traditionally-produced corn whiskey, I have done two further mashings, one today and one a week ago. Here is my current process in this recipe development:
FOUR-GALLON WASH: 6.8 lbs course-ground field corn; 1.2 lbs course-ground two-row malted barley (I use two-row because it is what is available at the store I patronize currently--so it is kind of what is naturally in my environment, which is what I would have in a traditional situation)
1. bring 4 gal water to 163 F;
2. turn off heat; stir in corn;
3. let heat decrease to 151 F; should be thick and porridgy (I think it doesn't become an unwieldable substance because you use all the water up front);
4. stir in 6% of malt (I use 1/4 cup) (this is to thin out your mash if it needs it so it's not a mass, I think);
5. leave uncovered for 20 minutes, stirring every few minutes (should be relatively liquidy and easy to stir);
6. heat and stir until it boils (don't scorch);
7. keep it at a rolling boil for thirty minutes (you're not going to scorch it if you bring it to heat slowly and stir observantly throughout--and be patient);
8. turn off heat and continue stirring for 5 minutes;
9. let cool (or force cool) to 152 F (I let it cool, for--although slower than force-cooling--this slow decrease in heat gives the mash more time to be exposed to the transformative factors of the process, I imagine);
10. below 152 F, stir in malted barley;
11. cover and let sit for 90 minutes, stirring every 15 minutes;
12. test conversion with iodine if you want;
13. let cool to below 100 F, like 98 F is good; at some point you might want to determine the OG;
14. pitch yeast (currently am using Lalvin 1118, which maybe isn't ideal)
15. cap and airlock.

One thing I am brooding over is ferment time. I would just leave the wash to ferment until the airlock quit bubbling at a decent frequency. However, smiley says 72 hours and no more than 84 hours; and in old-time accounts, some shiners will say, "better early than late," and "don't let beer go more than eight hours after it's fermented." So should I go by my observations via sight and taste, or should I use a prescribed time limit for fermentation? My number one above is on its 8th day and is still putting out bubbles couple or three times a minute.

Edit: Never mind this last question. I found the answer in the fermentation section.

[newengland]

I forgot to add that after pitching yeast and stirring it in you aerate by pouring the wash back and forth between the cooker and the fermenter a few times.

[newengland]

So my first of three intended washes went thusly:
Followed procedure detailed above, except I only brought the corn to boiling slowly and then ceased applying heat. I didn't take an OG. Ferment lasted 9 days (airlock bubbles 3.5 minutes apart). I collandered and squeezed out wash and put into carboy with airlock. Had just under 4 gallons of wash. Let settle for a few days (cool room carboy covered with towel). Ended up with about 2.5 gallons of wash with maybe three inches sitting on top of trub which I did not get because siphoning that low stirred up trub. This is my first time racking wash instead of distilling "dirty." Because I think I did draw in some trub to the wash, I decided not to use this wash as an exact experiment but added three pints of tails from previous all grain washes and an apple cider. Then I did a stripping run. I took 113 ml fore shots. I ceased distilling when product was at 30%. I got 1400 ml of distillate with a combined abv of 60%. I think I should have kept running down to maybe 20% so that my combined abv would have been closer to 40% and I would have had a larger quantity of distillate, but I have read that running under 30% might be not worth the time and energy. I will run longer my next stripping run. So I have this quantity of stripped distillate saved, but I will not figure it in to my corn whiskey experiments.

I have a second AG ferment going on its 8th day. This one I followed procedure noted earlier but cooked corn at rolling boil for 30 minutes. My next mash I will cook corn for 60 minutes. I will strip both of these washes and redistill together. I had an OG of 1.067 on the wash currently winding up its fermentation.

So my current thoughts are that an AG wash is not all that hard to make work, as AGs are all I have ever done except once when I had to add sugar to save a failed conversion. I do think that I will increase my abv by perfecting my corn-cooking time. And spring is in the air, so i should have some all-corn going in maybe a month.

Any thoughts?

[bellybuster]

just for others reading, using time as an indication of fermentation is poor practice. The old timers did it for a couple reasons. A0 they didn't have hydrometers and B) they were shining for money (time is money)

regardless of recipe a ferment will take as much time as "it" wants to. The same recipe under the same conditions can present 2 totally different ferments.
An hydrometer is the only "real" way to know when its finished.

I'm curious, when adding your 2 row at 152 degrees what is your resulting temp for the mash? It is all but impossible to calculate strike water when it already has grains in it. taking advantage of your results.
Thanks
A good all grain whiskey is next on my list

[newengland]

Bellybuster, thanks for the comments on fermentation time. They give me confidence to use my observations. I have not been able to force myself to end a ferment when it is working away nicely just because a certain amount of time has passed, but I have wondered if I was doing the right thing. I also noted your comment about the hydrometer reading informing when ferment is done. I have just started using an SG hydrometer.

I'm not sure I understand fully your question. I use a candy thermometer to check temps when mashing. I make sure that I stir up the mash before taking a temp so that I have the overall heat reading. I never thought that the temp of the grains would not just be consistent with the temp of the whole substance. Perhaps you could explain more what you are saying. However, I have not really taken the temp after adding my malt because there wasn't an important temp until I got down to under 100 F anyway, and I am going to be leaving it for 90 minutes anyway while converting. I can say that by the time I have gone 90 minutes after adding malt the temp is rarely below 120 F, and the temp seems to stay forever at around 120 F. I don't wrap or insulate my wort, but I do leave the cover off the cooker after the 90 minute conversion time is completed.

And I have been reading a bit about the enzymes, and the higher alcohol enzymes start working at a temp lower than 152 F, so I wonder if I would get a better conversion if I added malt at a lower temp, say 145 or 148 F.

Just a note to Greasy Dog: I feel like an idiot not noticing your link to the still you build and asking you what type you use. Very nice. Very traditional. I loved your thumper. I have been sketching out how I can adapt my 1 gal Clawhammer still into a thumper but still be able to use it independently as well. I have the unions and copper pipe ready to go. Here's a question: what's the best way to drill a 1/2 inch hole in my cap plate?

[bellybuster]

Because of my brewing beer background I am stuck on temps for mashing. I was just curious what your mashing temp was after adding your grains as they will cool your mash from the original 152 that you added them to.
When beer brewing the grains are added to straight water so the calculation for what water temp you need for so much grain to reach a goal mashing temp is easy. I'm just trying to piggyback on your results as I can't come up with the calculation when the water already has grains in it.

[bellybuster]

I think shooting for a mashing temp start point of 148-152 would be what I would want. That would drop over time giving you a good fermentable wort.
Sounds to me like your process is very sound, I'm not saying there are flaws at all. I'm just a data geek

[newengland]

Hey, no, thanks for the response. I've never brewed, so I was completely new back in August when I started distilling. As far as my process, I have piggy-backed solely. Any comments are helpful.

[newengland]

2nd wash--8.5 days--OG 1.070-FG 1.012=.058 58/7.5 = 7.73 abv
didn't get complete conversion but ferment was stopped
mash process--corn rolling boil 30 minutes

[newengland]

re mashing this recipe the third trial:
1. maybe adding the bit of malt before cooking isn't necessary as this is a fairly thin wash and does not become a mass, perhaps because of adding all the water at once;
2. truly cooked the corn this time; did not start timing boil until bubbling continued while I was stirring; intended to cboil for 60 minutes, but at 40 minutes I had a uniform porridge so that the corn was creamed, and I did think that I could get a scorch, so I ceased at 40 minutes; corn also goes through the lengthy heating up process to reach boil, so it gets a good workout;
3. never had a mash like this: no significant settling occurred as the mash was creamed corn and remained with its solids suspended, although it was readily stirrable;
4. now maybe I know why the Foxfire recipe calls for "bubbling" the corn for 35 to 40 minutes; maybe this is the correct amount of time based on these cats' experiences; and also I now have empirical experience with gelatinization, maybe;
5. I was tired so I left mash to cool and went to bed, only throwing my terrycloth bathrobe over the cooker; in morning 80F; heated it to about 90 F and then pitched yeast; mash was still a porridge with no thin liquid risen to the top, very little sedimentation.

Anxious to see how this ferments. Started doing nicely about an hour after yeast added.

[newengland]

Did the stripping run on my 2nd wash of this 3 wash series. This was the wash for which I cooked the corn 30 minutes (actually 20 because I started timing ten minutes before the bubbling continued while I stirred).
After letting trub settle for four or five days, I siphoned 1.75 gallons of wash out of the 4 gallon original mash.
After taking out 66 ml of fore shots, I garnered a quart of 37.5 proof product.
I ran down to 15% ABV because I wanted an overall proof of about 40.

As a note on economy, let me mention that I had considered purchasing a siphon, but what I did instead was take my clear plastic tube and rubber band it to a foot long ruler in order to stiffen the tubing so I had more control. Then I just suck up some beer till it runs. This works very well.

[newengland]

Okay, beginning 11th day of fermentation for 3rd test wash--corn boiled for 40 minutes. Still going strong. Have made the following revisions to procedure for my next mashing:
1. Skip the steps wherein I add a bit of malt to the corn prior to cooking. I think that the recipe is thin enough that I do not need to worry about getting a mass, probably because I use all the water right away. Thus also the recipe is simplified.
2. Change grain bill--decrease corn to 6.4 lbs; increase malted barley to 1.6 pounds. This proportion gives me the 80/20 corn/barley split I need for true corn whiskey and increases my converting power.

So I will heat water to 163 or so, add corn, bring to boil, and boil for 40 minutes.

[newengland]

Beginning 15th day of third beer fermentation. Has slowed down, but just won't stop. Did a 4th mash in this development series on Saturday, per the revisions I mentioned above, namely skipped the step of adding a bit of malt early to thin out mash and adjusted grain bill. Not adding the malt did make a difference in the texture of the mash, of course, even with the slightly reduced corn bill. I had to cook at a lower temperature and have a less vigorous boil to prevent scorching because of the thickness. So this 4th beer is now vigorously working away. I'd say it is probably worth the trouble of retaining the step of adding the bit of malt prior to cooking to thin out the mash.

Question: Reading Alt Whiskey I note that the usual grain cooking time suggested in most of the recipes is two hours. This is at some variance with lots of other recipes I have read, and I have had success (I think) with cooking much less time. Comments? I have read recipes on HD which call for a relatively long cooking time.
Also, looking at the FG of the recipes in Alt Whiskey I note that none of them go below 1. So is it necessary or possible to aim for 0.99 FG as a regular FG with one's beers?

Thanks.

[newengland]

Okay, here's an update. I realize that some of my posts actually relate to other specific sections of HD, but I am hoping that my consolidation of notes will allow a unified look at this recipe development. So: I want to comment that my last mashing was a very pleasant experience. Having boiled my corn for varying lengths of time in previous mashes, I finally reached the stage where I could try not boiling but doing as others have done and holding the mash at around 180F. This was simply great. I was able to keep temp between 175 and 180F for 1 1/2 hours. I did not add a small amount of barley malt and yet the mash retained an easy-stir consistency. I did not have to worry about scorching. I did not have to stir constantly. And the corn gelled very well. I was very pleased and am going to repeat this process in subsequent mashes, perhaps varying the cooking times just to see the results.

I have not been consistent with checking my SGs, an oversight that I intend on correcting, at least until I have an idea of the usual results for the process which I eventually stick with. However, the OG for this last wort was 1.060, a bit lower than I have been getting. However, I do think that on average I am getting between 7 and 8% ABV on these all-grain corn mashes.

I also want to make sure that I do not give the impression that I am developing something original here. I am just following steps I have read and observing how the corn responds so I know empirically what various methods produce. And thanks for all the help. If you note something boneheaded, please let me know.

newengland

[[andy]]

Why not sprout and dry (malt) your corn for a single malt corn whiskey? No need for barley malt or surgar. The flavor is great.

[newengland]

Yes. That is my intention. I am still looking around for air-dried corn. Once temps around here are staying warm I will start sprouting with whatever I have, air-dried or not. I do avoid sugar. I enjoy doing AG. What's your process for sprouting corn? Maybe you've posted that on another thread. I've not been on HD for a few days.

[thumper123]

Back in my youth, corn whiskey was made from just a sugar wash with corn added for flavor. I had no hydrometer or alcohol meter, and just baker's yeast. The whiskey came out okay by my early standards, but in the last ten years or so I've been skipping the sugar and converting the corn. What a difference! But I like enzymes over malt. Buying malt is just another expense I can live without, and malting the corn itself is too diddly a process for me. Enzymes can be a little tricky. I use alpha and glucose amylase. You have to watch your Ph carefully. The glucose likes a lower ph so you have to adjust the wash twice, but overall it does a good job. I can't see much difference over using malt tastewise. I'm surprised more people don't use them.

[newengland]

I'll have to look into using enzymes. Never even considered it to tell the truth. I've got three ferments going right now, spaced a week apart, using barley. I want to try the corn sprouting next, but I will definitely give enzymes a try.

[thumper123]

Don't get me wrong. I've sprouted the corn a few times myself, and it makes an excellent whiskey. It's just that the enzymes are so damn easy. I've always wondered if the commercial guys use them. Does anybody out there know?