Rye bread whiskey

[Stilly]

Can't seem to stop experimenting and it even seems to go in a good direction. I love rye, but it is (as an AG) a pita to work with. And even as a sugar head with rye in the fermenter it either does not give off enough taste, or you have to cook it first. And if you do that, it starts gelling again and you are back in pita country.

I don't know what your Rye is like over there Odin. But in the USA I just buy a sack of rye at feed store, its the whole grain, basically its sold as seed I think for growing ryegrass pasture, but any how, I take couple gallons of water, get it boiling good then add a few pounds of rye and simmer for an hour or two till it softens and expands, then throw it in fermenter with more water and inverted sugar and some nutrients and proceed like any other sugar wash. I get tons of taste, tastes just like store bought rye whiskey, except for that slight tell tale sugarhead taste. I think the trick to cooking it is make sure water is rolling and that keeps it moving and no gelling.

cheers
stilly

[heartcut]

I tried to make some ryegrass whiskey thinking the feed store ryegrass was the same stuff, but it isn't. I've been blending the spirits from that batch into corn for a few years now, in small quantities, it has a really strong flavor. Only place I can find real rye around here is health and brewing stores at a buck or two a pound.

[mystakilla]

Im not sure but im thinking the mallard effect is going to have some differences between wg rye and rye bread.... wait to hear from Odin...

[Odin]

Yeah, this recipe is not about rye, it is explicitely about dark, dense rye bread. Or rye that has been Maillardized by cooking it in an alcalyne environment for over 6 hours and under 100 degrees C. That's what triggers the M-reaction and that's what gives like 300 to 400% more taste than a regular rye would.

Odin.

[Ridgerunnr]

None of the use able rye bread avail ..tried brew shop for rye. The only thing available is
Flaked rye. I bought two pounds which was all he had. Would this still work???

[Odin]

Please look for Maillard reaction. With that approach u can get the same results with standard rye.

Odin.

[Ridgerunnr]

So cooking it in oven like standard rye will work?

[Odin]

In water, slightly alcalyne at 90 degrees C for 3 hours. Then add some more water. Another 3 hours and you are there.
Odin.

[Ridgerunnr]

Thanks Odin...will try that this weekend. ..will prob add corn to the works as 2# of rye prolly ain't enough
For a 6 gal wash

[Odin]

Yes, that makes sense. But ... if you really succeed in Maillardizing the rye (and since it is roled - maybe hot rolled - I am not sure), 2 pounds will be enough. The M reaction is so intense ... it burns a hole in your mouth and ass. Stronger than my geneva with too much liquorice in it. Hey, even after fractionating a vodka out of it, it was too hot. Had to throw it thru my new automated LM still to make it drinkable. That's why the recipe calls for only like 3 pounds on a 6 gallon wash. And even then, as a whiskey, I find myself diluting it with 70% of other stylers like wheat or corn. So adding corn makes sense, but if you Maillardize the rye, you can add anything ...and not find anything back taste wise. Maillardized rye is so strong it overpowers everything else.

Odin.

[Ridgerunnr]

Does the grain after cooking as prescribed carry a strong odor? I guess if it does judging byhow " heavy"
The odor is will help me decide on adding another grain to add addtnl flavor . I have some all grain corn run I could
Cut it with too if needed

[Odin]

Smell is not so intense. The beer is very, very dark though. Dark brown. Allmost mirky.

Odin.

[baron4406]

I would like to hear if anyone is using the Mestemacher bread and how they find is it turning out?

I ran the first batch as a single run, just to try it out. Ended up with two quarts of clean 75% hearts. I wasn't impressed with the taste at all, it was delicate, almost neutral. Well I took one, cut it down to 65% and ran it thru about 6 rounds of nuke aging on JD chips. Result? Unreal. I drink alot of white dog, and this was unreal. Keep in mind this is the first run, single run without any feints. Put it this way I'm actually craving it, that hot sauce taste is addicting. Next run I stripped and the strippings have that taste too. I'm gonna run it with my third run as a slow spirit run.
Odin is brilliant, for the PIA rye is to work with I honestly think think the rye bread gives you more taste and its easy. I took the other quart and added to my gallon jugs of UJSSM, that stuff will be truly special in a few months.
I don't know how this stuff is gonna be aged, but if you are a rye head you gotta try this. I was gonna only make 4 runs, I have some AG stuff I wanna do next but I'm not sure where I'm gonna go now, I have an empty fermenter and its not cool lol

[baron4406]

Second round of runs is done, one stripped run that's run with a fresh wash. Both washes were about 7 gallons each. Got around 1.5 gallons of 65% (after proofing down). One Gallon is in a glass jar with two 7.5" oak sticks that I charred heavy and put slices in them with my saw, one small section (about 3" x 1") each of cherry and apple (charred), and a couple broken up pieces of toasted spiral (for the tannins my barrel staves are missing). Two quarts I have been doing microwaving on, one with JD chips, one with a small section of charred spiral. Got some feints left and 3 loaves of bread- I might whip up another batch for a single run after the holiday. Want to make a single run, stripped run comparison. Odin, this is another winner!!

[Odin]

Thanks Baron! Keep them posts comming!

Odin.

[mrgt]

I ended up with about 1 gallon at 130 proof. Right now its aging on medium toasted oak cubes (approx. 50 sq. inches worth). When I compared it fresh out of the still to my neutral spirits there are definitely different but wont know till it aged a bit.

The one concern I have is that my bread during the fermentation process always sank to the bottom, on top of that this recipe produced a lot and I mean ALOT of white sludgy material that settled on top of bread. I stirred it daily but This sludge acted like a blanket to the bread on bottom and I am not certain how much flavor came through. wont know for a month or so when I try it.

On a side note, added a 1/2 vanilla bean in there, how long should I leave it in there?

[Odin]

Did you cook/boil the rye bread before adding it to your fermenter?

Odin.

[mrgt]

Yes I did. I used the Mestemacher bread . I am still hopeful it will be good just hope the flavor can through . My wash final color was an opaque creamy white color. Wont know for another three weeks when I try it.

[midwest shinner]

I was very lucky at work today. I work an organic type grocery store and tonite was assigned to take care of any spoiled or outdated foods(we do this every nite) and generally donate everything, well as you can imagine occasionally some it ends up being donated to me. So tonite while going thru the bread section I came to our pumpernickel bread and found a bunch that was clearly marked with the incorrect expiration date. Instead of saying use by 8/7/13 it was marked 7/7/13. I instantly thought of Odin's rye bread whisky and got busy donating it to myself. Long story short I got 8lbs of nice pumpernickel made with rye and molasses for nothing. I have a few batches fermenting already so I will start this one up in a few days or a week. I am very excited to try it and if I go according to recipe I should have enough to make about a 12 gal wash.

[Jimbo]

Sounds good Mike!

[midwest shinner]

I started a 13.5 gal batch of this 3 days ago and its been fermenting like crazy, its been producing so much heat that its been sitting at a steady 82°F so I've been putting frozen water bottles in to try and cool it down. its just beginning to slow down and is now staying at about 76°F. Can't wait to run this one it smalls great already and that's coming from someone who doesn't even really like rye bread all that much, do you normally let it clear before running Odin or no?

[Odin]

Yes, I do, because I run an internal element. But if you dont run that way, I'd distill on the grain on run one.

Odin.

[midwest shinner]

Duh... I knew that you ran an electric element on your iStill, it just slipped my mind I guess. My current set ups run entirely on propane, so I would consider distilling on the grain, or for this one "on the mush" but my keg boiler only has a 2" opening where I fill/connect my column so any scorching would be a pain to try and clean out. I suppose I will just let it clear as well as it can til I have time to run it. Thanks for the reply Odin, even though I should have known the answer already. I am very excited to see how this turns out, I made my batch according to your recipe but the only backset I had was from a rice wash, so I just used a gallon in my ferment not wanting to overdo it.

[Cu29]

Just finished making some MR Rye from some Rye Malt I had.

My wife's comment was "That smell makes me horny. I just want to roll in it."

I must be doing it right. I'm putting some in her pillow case...

The wetter parts of the rye malt mix turned darker in the oven. I'll add more water next time I make a batch from grain. 1.5 L/Kg water might work better.

Can't wait to run it.

[Jimbo]

My wife's comment was "That smell makes me horny. I just want to roll in it."

Lucky bastard

[midwest shinner]

Running a 12 gal batch of the rye bread whisky tomorrow. Stripping it at least. The wash smells so great i drank a nice cup of it last nite and it was quite pleasant

[coloniera]

Hello spirited collective! It's been awhile since I last posted in the forum. As I remember at least 10 years but perhaps more.
One of the things I love about this place is the exploratory "what the hell" kind of attitude a lot of you people here have. I really do believe it has gotten the collective places many with more studies and experience wouldn't have thought of. But all of the 13 pages of this thread have me wondering if too much of trying to re-invent the wheel is not enough.
"Brewing" bread is nonsensical! You can't obtain alcohol out of baked bread unless it already contains a lot of sugar (as in a glazing), and what little alcohol you could extract wouldn't warrant the effort of running it through a still! Rye bread as in pumpernickel and the sort of dutch bread Odin described is commercially made with some other darkening ingredients apart from the long "Maillard" baking. Caramel color is one and molasses is another typically found in the small letters in the back of the packages. Grainy, mealy rye bread is also made with whole and coarsely cracked kernels of rye. Whole as in with the essential oil rich germ included. Also remember that your typical still is just a glorified essential oils extractor.
Caramel color is present in all oak aged spirits as a means to standardize the drink's color because of the inherently different tannin extraction that occurs in the barrels and it (caramel coloring) certainly contributes to their flavor. If the bread also contains some molasses and a little coffee (as is the case more often than not), you're sure getting some nice and exotic spicing in that boiler.
Wouldn't it be better to make whatever base alcohol mash is easier/cheaper for you and dillute it to 40% ABV and then give it some drops of a nice molasses extract, and a pinch of spirit caramel color and some more drops of rye ethylic extract or essence? That's how the industrial outfits go about it.
Now, if I were to do an authentic, no holds barred, real McCoy kind of rye whisky I would go the pre-gelatinized rye flakes way, add enough high diastatic six-row to do the trick, ferment with a highly aromatic top yeast and then, when filling the boiler, add a quarter pound per gallon of dark, toasted with a skillet over a low fire, "Maillardized" whole rye kernels.
Salud!

[midwest shinner]

In this recipe the alcohol mainly comes from the sugar added, the bread is just for the flavor and a bit of nutrients. And the idea behind it is to have an easy rye whisky since working with rye and rye flakes can be quite a PITA.

[Odin]

+1!

Odin.

[midwest shinner]

By the way Odin I have a batch of low wines from my first rye bread whisky awaiting a spirit run. I can't wait, it smells so fantastic. A bit weird though as the whole batch of low wines came over cloudy. I'm sure the spirit run will be clear, but I've never had a whole stripping run come through cloudy like this. Any idea what could have caused it? I gotta say this recipe really is 10 times easier than making AG rye whiskies. I would recommend it to anyone who is a fan of rye whisky