Copper plating with your scrap copper

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mash rookie
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Copper plating with your scrap copper

Post by mash rookie »

I have been playing with copper plating using my copper scrap and enjoying success. It may be a great idea for brass fittings of unknown origin.

I am going to plate a large sculpture soon before clear finishing with ceramic clear coating. I am plating steel. Using my battery charger on 6 volts I tested with salt water, vinegar, citric acid and muratic acid. My neighbor works at a battery wholesale warehouse and can get me sulfuric acid if I want.

I wired a bunch of scrap together and connected it to the positive terminal. Using a glass bowl the object to be plated was connected to the negative terminal and suspended in the solution above the copper scrap. POWER ON!

The salt water boiled like mad, turned the solution green with copper corrosion but did not plate the object. Vinegar works but more time and AMPS were needed. Citric acid works better and yielded some excellent artistic results. Muratic acid worked the best and required the least amount of power even when diluted 400% . Because I am going to plate a 5’ x 9’ armature the acid will be my choice.
I picked up a blow up kid pool that is 6’ x 10’ for $30 that will be my plating tank.

I did not have sucess with stainless or aluminum but understand it is possible. When I have time I will look in to it further.

You guys should enjoy success using citric acid or vinegar with a small charger and a little more time. My tests were limited to 30 minutes each. Keep your voltage at 6 or lower.

You guys know I am always doing something different or crazy.
Have Fun!
bellybuster
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Re: Copper plating with your scrap copper

Post by bellybuster »

very cool, would love to see the results. This is something I've been reading about for a long time as well as powder coating and 400 other things
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Rastus
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Re: Copper plating with your scrap copper

Post by Rastus »

how will the inflatable pool hold up with the muriatic acid?
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rumbuff
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Re: Copper plating with your scrap copper

Post by rumbuff »

I've tried doing this several times myself, never had much luck, but then again I always cranked the juice up. I thought you needed copper chloride? or copper salts anyways to give the solution copper to start?
Angel_Kefka
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Re: Copper plating with your scrap copper

Post by Angel_Kefka »

the copper scrap plus the acid makes copper chloride if I remember right. so the copper disolves into solution, some migrates to the object to be plated.
mfkerr
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Re: Copper plating with your scrap copper

Post by mfkerr »

You are a genius, I had forgotten all about my basic chemistry.
I just did a test run, with very excellent results.
Thank You,
Mark
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Re: Copper plating with your scrap copper

Post by ErnieV »

I seem to remember from school using copper sulphate?
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Re: Copper plating with your scrap copper

Post by ErnieV »

I seem to remember from school using copper sulphate?
mash rookie
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Re: Copper plating with your scrap copper

Post by mash rookie »

Most guys on here will have a few copper scraps laying around. Spend $4 on a quart of muratic acid at the local hardware store and have some fun.
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Re: Copper plating with your scrap copper

Post by Sackett »

just pulled my sightglass holders outta platin solution.bout 30 min 6 volta , 10 am,,nice n red
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Windy City
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Re: Copper plating with your scrap copper

Post by Windy City »

Very Cool idea Mash Rookie :clap: :clap: :clap:
Would love to hear about copper plating stainless
I was working on a bunch of Bradford White water heaters over the past
few days (we just got nailed by rain/flooding) and as I am laying on the ground
cleaning out this heater I am looking at the flame trap thinking God this would
make a great perf plate for a flute I plan on building a modular set-up this
summer and would like to try using these Bradford plates also how well will the
copper plate hold up on a plate/tray and how much thickness does it add
I appreciate any answers I rarely post but love reading your guys stuff it's a
real inspiration.

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Re: Copper plating with your scrap copper

Post by maheel »

copper plating stainless works pretty good
i have done some ferules and then soldered them to copper

it's a simple process and the trick is to really clean the SS and do multiple "small / thin" plating seesions and build it up
"cleaning" the SS part between sessions it builds up to a nice finish

once done right it does not come off unless you sand it off

google this -> Electroplating copper on stainless ugly
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Re: Copper plating with your scrap copper

Post by Windy City »

Thanks Maheel
That was real informative and I will definitely try it :thumbup:
This site is great with all the help everybody gives

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Re: Copper plating with your scrap copper

Post by WV Shine »

Is it just me or does plating stainless with a very easily corroded metal sound counterproductive/crazy... :shock:

Heh, just being a smartass ;) Plating before soldering sounds like a pretty damn good idea Maheel. I guess I'd just try to plate the area near the place you were going to solder? It would definitely help with wetting the stainless though, I usually end up having to physically push the solder pool to where i want it :)
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Re: Copper plating with your scrap copper

Post by johnarms »

thought id share my experience. tried initially with no name vineagar, sea salt, muriatic acid, sugar, and a 4.5 volt phone charger. result was a thin film of coppery loooking stuff that wiped off immediately. dark blue solution etc no worky. change to pickling salt, pickling vinegar, and since i kept reading about nickle striking started with a nickle silver brazing rod instead of copper for the first plating. whatever happened made the stainless a dark silvery color, changed over to copper for a couple hrs, then put in ferule, nice red copper coating that did not rub off!! tell me if i did something terribly wrong, but it worked.
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Re: Copper plating with your scrap copper

Post by baron4406 »

Let me tell you about my unintended experiment with sanitizer (Star San). I was soaking my new concentric still in some old sanitizer, works as good as vinegar. I had my stainless stirring rod in there too. A couple days later the sanitizer was cloudy and had a metallic smell to it. I was shocked when my stainless stirring rod now had a coating of copper in it that i couldn't wipe off. This was at room temp with no electricity. I thought of this thread and I wonder what in the heck happened.
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Re: Copper plating with your scrap copper

Post by Maritimer »

STAR SAN is a blend of phosphoric acid and dodecylbenzenesulfonic acid. The two dissimilar metals, copper and stainless steel, together with the acid, formed a battery. The stainless steel rod was probably touching the copper, completing the circuit. Copper ions moved from the copper to the stainless steel, coating it.

Maybe?

M
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Re: Copper plating with your scrap copper

Post by mash rookie »

Maritimer wrote:STAR SAN is a blend of phosphoric acid and dodecylbenzenesulfonic acid. The two dissimilar metals, copper and stainless steel, together with the acid, formed a battery. The stainless steel rod was probably touching the copper, completing the circuit. Copper ions moved from the copper to the stainless steel, coating it.

Maybe?

M

You are probably spot on Maritimer. He created a chemical battery. There may be enough stray static electricity (DC) to help the electrolysis some.

The stronger the acid the better the plating. While salt water conducts electricity as well as acid, it does not etch the material it is attracted to allowing adhesion.

When I started this thread it was meant to inspire folks by showing them what can be done with their scrap copper. BTW. The Custom Chandelier turned out great incredible. I will be shipping it out in a few weeks. Myself and two helpers will fly to San Diego to install it in late June.

I see a couple of interesting posts here. Everybody is nibbling at the corners. Plating with similar metals or friendly metals is a good place to start. I encourage the experiments.

I dont have problems soldering stainless. If nobody steps up I will spend some time in the shop and develop a quick recipe for plating stainless parts with a base coat for easier soldering.
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Re: Copper plating with your scrap copper

Post by baron4406 »

So could Star San be used instead of muratic acid? BTW the PH was in the 2.7 range. I'm wondering since that Star San was so old and had so many different things in it- that helped.

Already got orders from the wife to plate a few things using this method, the plating shines up real nice too. I have the most bizarre looking stirring rod ever.
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Re: Copper plating with your scrap copper

Post by mash rookie »

Muratic acid is available at any hardware store dirt cheap and can be diluted. I cant imaging why you would want to use up your expensive sanitizer. You don’t have to re-invent the wheel every time. If that is what trips your trigger go for it. Do the experiments. Let us know how well it works.
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Re: Copper plating with your scrap copper

Post by ErnieV »

I would love a sure fire way of plating stainless because I don't have the tools to silver solder them
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Re: Copper plating with your scrap copper

Post by maheel »

i found the slow and steady approach worked well and it would not rub off.

try multiple light plating sessions and good cleaning between coats

imo it's not a one quick thick coat trick...
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Re: Copper plating with your scrap copper

Post by thecroweater »

ErnieV wrote:I would love a sure fire way of plating stainless because I don't have the tools to silver solder them
Off topic a bit but I found soft soldering copper to stainless a lot easier than copper to copper
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Re: Copper plating with your scrap copper

Post by baron4406 »

mash rookie wrote:Muratic acid is available at any hardware store dirt cheap and can be diluted. I cant imaging why you would want to use up your expensive sanitizer. You don’t have to re-invent the wheel every time. If that is what trips your trigger go for it. Do the experiments. Let us know how well it works.
Sorry didn't mean to rub you the wrong way again, I just like throwing out ideas. The Star San i used was old and I was about to throw it out, then decided since it was very acidic it would be great for cleaning copper-and it was very effective. So in a sense it was free to me and alot less than going out to buy acid. That's all.
So this copper layer can also be soldered like a copper to copper fitting? Next long spirit run I'm experimenting. This stuff is what makes these boards so interesting.
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Re: Copper plating with your scrap copper

Post by BoomTown »

I'm thinking, would electo plating a SS pot inside and out with Cu make it work like a pure copper pot? I'm wondering about the heating of the mash, will a copper plated SS pot move heat up and around the pot more efficiently? Will the copper plating inside make the mash react to the copper plating as if it were in pot made of 100% copper, in terms of the sulfate exchange that occurs in a copper worm?
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Re: Copper plating with your scrap copper

Post by WV Shine »

Chemically, it would work the same as an all copper pot... The sulphate reduction may be primarily when the alcohol is in vapor form though. :?: That amount of copper wouldn't change the thermal characteristics of the pot very much.
mash rookie
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Re: Copper plating with your scrap copper

Post by mash rookie »

baron4406 wrote: Sorry didn't mean to rub you the wrong way again, I just like throwing out ideas. The Star San i used was old and I was about to throw it out, then decided since it was very acidic it would be great for cleaning copper-and it was very effective. So in a sense it was free to me and alot less than going out to buy acid. That's all.
So this copper layer can also be soldered like a copper to copper fitting? Next long spirit run I'm experimenting. This stuff is what makes these boards so interesting.
Sorry for my lack of patients Baron. HD is going through some growing pains. We have so damn many new members its crazy. Not a single damn one wants to read or do any leg work they just want to ask. and ask and ask. :wtf:

If guys are asking if they should add yeast to their second batch of UJSSM or if is okay to use WallyWorld water on page 185 of the thread they should be politely sent back to third grade until they learn how to read..

I tire of folks talking the talk but not walking the talk. I have done many, many experiments and tests documenting my work and have made the effort to write well thought out articulate posts in effort to share what I learned.

I lead folks right down the freakin path to learning something on their own and they still wont make the effort. Come on guys, Pitch in. Take pictures. Show us your heart is in it not just your mouth. Post when you have something to add.

Okay everybody. Yes, Its pretty easy to make stainless easy to solder or COPPER PLATE. This took minutes. ½ cup muratic acid diluted 100% (.25 cents?) After scuffing the stainless tube it was connected to the negative terminal of a six volt battery charger. Soft silver solder hanging from the positive. 60 seconds. Turned tube around. Changed to hard silver solder hanging from the positive. 60 seconds. Washed the tube with soap and water. Both ends easily accepted soft solder with water based flux only. Mapp torch only. I dont see any reason to copper plate stainless other than looks. Plating stainless with silver will make a lot of folks lives easier for soldering. (give it a whole 5 minutes)
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Re: Copper plating with your scrap copper

Post by emptyglass »

Thanks for your efforts MR. You are inspirational, you have inspired many new guys and old hands alike.

Good thing you share your stuff mate, you give a lot of newbies a chance to see how the pro's do it.

You got me thinking about plating some bits and bobs, but in time. Like you say its a great decorative addition.
You design it, I make it. Copper and Stainless. Down under. PM me.
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Re: Copper plating with your scrap copper

Post by baron4406 »

Well I do nothing but experiment with everything (except safety!!) yet when I share my experiences, old hats look at my post count, say since I'm a newbie shut your mouth and don't reinvent the wheel. I made a huge amount of runs last year and discovered alot of interesting stuff. I attempted to share it, and was tongue lashed. Heck I made such good UJSSM with my methods ( I tweaked all Uncle Jessie's methods) that I now have the equivalent of a bunch of junkie's who keep asking for more of my stuff. Mind you guys that are bourbon heads who drink top shelf stuff, as well as people who wouldn't drink whiskey if their lives depended on it. However if you try to innovate on these boards you get shot down and ignored. So i will continue to experiment and reinvent the wheel, just like you do. Its just gonna stay with me and in PM's. That should make everyone get along a little better here.

So I tried this last night, used old Star San. Some context first, on my stills to make joints I use a sanitary fitting mated to the size of the pipe. If you sand the inside of the pipe you get a press fit. Used with a teflon gasket and clamp its awesome and clean. However on some fittings I sand a little too aggressively and the fit is a little loose. So i took one of the fittings and tried it with my 6 volt battery charger. It works, in fact i didn't have to add any more solder when i redid the joint. This is one of those things that makes you go WOW. BTW I used soft solder, didn't try it with silver solder. I was gonna post a pic but with the shoulder of the fitting its hard to even see anything, just trust me its amazing.
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Re: Copper plating with your scrap copper

Post by BoomTown »

baron4406 wrote: used old Star San. ... i took one of the fittings and tried it with my 6 volt battery charger. ... i didn't have to add any more solder when i redid the joint.
Baron, I'm not sure what happened for you...did the joint tighten up so that it's not a loose joint, or did you accomplish a soldering effort between two pieces without using heat?
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