Nuclear Whiskey / Nuclear Rum and Spirits Rapid Ageing

[bowhunt76]

Ok so i did an equal parts syrup and added a total of 1/2 cup to the fireball and its perfect. Thanks for your help. Also added it to the blueberries. Imma let it sit till tomorrow night and givem a try.

Tried 1/4 cup first and wasnt enough. Just sayin.

[Scurrillous]

I have been sitting on my second batch of all grain barley for for about ten days now and reading most of the posts on this thread.
Tonight I decided to give the nukular thing a try. Nothing blew up. Whew. Like many others I was apprehensive and thanks to the trailblazers and of course the OP I felt confident I could do it in my kitchen microwave.
My run has been sitting in 14 250ml mason jars since I finished with the exception of jars # 7,8 and 9. These I combined into a larger mason jar and ended up with 675ml of 125 proof hearts. I chose this jar to experiment with. I put a teaspoon sized bunch of oak chips in and ran it for one minute and eleven seconds twice. I brought it out of the microwave at 150F. (I am guessing my microwave runs at 1200 watts as it is a small to medium sized one.)
Here is a picture after it came out.

I put the lid on it and about an hour later it had cooled to the touch. I got impatient and popped the lid off to get going with nuke 2.
I ran nuke 2 for about one minute and 50 seconds and it looked suspiciously close to boiling so I pulled it out and I had a temperature this time of 170F. No surprise, it had darkened considerable from the first time. The smell was nice !

The final nuke came out at 150F and looked like this.

I am tasting it diluted with distilled water. It is still a bit too warm but it has a very sweet taste. Sweeter than my last batch although wether to attribute that to the nuking or some other variable I don't know. I DO know that it is far smoother than my test glass of un-nuked that I had beside it.
I think I am a convert.
This is a very very tasty scotch.
Thank you FullySilenced !

[baron4406]

started another batch with 40% vodka, this time with Pinnacle vodka not the bottom shelf stuff. One thing I noticed is the lower ABV stuff colors alot faster. Have 25% JD chips and a HUGE cinnamon stick, two rounds in the micro and its already dark as heck. Last batch ended up like cinnamon schnapps. Wife said she's done with vodka now, she's into whiskey and this infused stuff. Blueberries? trying that next.....

Also here's a tips for those wanting to try this out. First off the more junk you have in there, the harder it is to get to temp. I'm having to go over 2 minutes with my second batch and its still nowhere near 150 degrees F. Also keep in mind when you are taking temps there are severe temperature gradients in the jar when you take it out. The top might be 160 degrees, the bottom is still 80 degrees. I nuke it, slap the lid on for a quick shake to mix it up, then take a temp. Yes its nerve wracking to shake a hot jar, but no guts no glory right?

[Badger]

Hi there, Badger here.

There has been quite a bit of discussion about the “nuclear process” and many many pages of anecdotal experiences, mostly positive. I was interested in acquiring some objective data to complement what has already been posted. I recently visited a local distillery where the head distiller is a complete chemistry geek (MSU Distilling Program grad student, thesis on barrel aging, etc). I reached out to him on this topic and was pleasantly surprised when he agreed to run samples through his lab and gas spectrometer. Below, please find our emails and in the next post, I’ll present my initial thoughts on possible trials.

(Note: I’ve redacted names from the emails to keep his distillery from appearing to approve of home distilling)

(Note to Mods – if this seems too long or should be its own thread, feel free to move it where you see fit.)

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On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 1:13 PM, BADGER wrote:
Dear Xxxxx,
My name is BADGER and we talked the night that the Homebrewers Guild took a tour of the distillery. I was the “home enthusiast” who discussed with you whether it was possible to hit azeotrope with something other than a 30+plate still. You challenged me to bring in a sample of a suspected azeotrope to put through your lab. While I don’t have that, I do have another topic that might interest you.
Currently, several of the online forums who geek out on this kind of thing are discussing the use of either microwave or ultrasonic cleaning to “smooth” or speed up/improve aging (some are doing it just to distillate while some are using wood chips, etc). While no distillery that I’m aware of uses microwaves to improve their spirit, there are at least a couple that seem to be using a version of ultrasonic cleaning. While there is general agreement that these processes improve taste, there was some question as to whether there is an actual quantifiable chemical effect taking place and, if so, what that is. Unfortunately, we don’t have access to the kind of lab you use every day.
If, and only if, the results of such an experiment would interest you (I think I remember you saying you did your thesis on aging), I’m wondering if you’d be willing to put several identical samples (untreated, microwave treatment, ultrasonic treatment, for instance) through your lab to see a side-by-side chemical comparison of the various treatments.
I realize this is fairly brazen of me and you are a very busy person. I’ll completely understand if, for any number of reasons, you aren’t interested. However, I figured it never hurts to ask. You seemed very open-minded about being creative with the art of distilling and I thought that, just maybe, this would appeal to your own inner geek. 
In any case, thanks again for a fun and informative tour. I can’t wait to see all the fun things that come out of [Xxxxxx Distillery] in the coming years.

Sincerely,
BADGER
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On May 10, 2013, at 5:46 PM, "XXXXXX wrote:
Hi BADGER,

Sorry for the delay and what will probably be a short response. I am totally interested in this. I would love to run samples and right now we are setting up our GC with the help of Kara Hulce, who was also on the tour. She is our new lab intern and I think we should absolutely run these samples.

I am aware of Terressentia and their ultrasound process. They asked me to help validate their work and I took a look at their website and declined. I can think of at least two or three improvements that are possible and we shall examine them.
Start pulling your samples together and let us know when you might be ready to run them.
Best,
XXXXXX

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On Sat, May 11, 2013 at 10:25 PM, BADGER wrote:
That is great. Thanks so much!

I'll contact some people about getting the samples. In the meantime, what kind of parameters are we talking? Sample size? Are there certain protocols that need to be observed to avoid contaminated or otherwise compromised results? How many samples (I have no idea if the process is 5 min or 5 hours) are realistic?

My initial idea would be something like 8 samples:
1. control white spirit
2. microwaved white spirit (minor dose)
3. microwaved white spirit (major dose)
4. ultrasounded white spirit (minor dose or low power)
5. ultrasounded white spirit (major dose or high power)
6. white spirit microwaved with oak
7. white spirit ultrasounded with oak.
8. white spirit "traditionally" aged on oak.

Anecdotally, these processes both smooth plain spirit and speed the aging process on oak. We're interested in quantifying how exactly.

That said, there might be a different format (design of experiments?) or set of variables you are interested in exploring.

Finally, in case you want some background, the initial forum where these ideas were presented is here: http://forum.moderndistiller.com/viewto ... =34&t=1883" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

It then jumped to this, more established, forum: http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... =4&t=38991

Like most forum threads, they are full of meandering conversations and deadends, but I think you'll get the general sense of the conversation in the first few pages.

Thanks again. I look forward to talking with you soon.

BADGER

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi BADGER,

Took a look through the forums. My first thoughts:
I like your sample schema. Our GC is set up to look for congeners primarily but we may pick up some ethyl esters as well, just haven't had enough time to look. Kara is looking into that over the coming weeks for a project we're working on anyway so we'll have some info on that shortly. I think it would be worth examining whether the effects are more pronounced at higher proofs. I thought I saw that someone had tried it at 80 but most were using barreling strength so let's make sure at least some of the samples are not diluted.

I would say the things we'll look for are reduction in congener concentration (I think that's was Terressentia was trying to show in their vodka) and corresponding increases in any ethyl esters we can pick up. We only need 50ml or so (2-5ml for gc, the rest to taste).
Let me know your timeline. We will probably have time to run some of these in June.
Thanks,
XXXXX

[Badger]

So on to figuring out what to test:


Ideally, I’d like to run two separate trials:

TRIAL A: to study the “smoothing” effects of microwave and ultrasonic on white spirit. Currently, opinions seem to veer between “it just boils off heads” and “it actually speeds the chemical processes that happen during aging”. I’d like to look at which is the case and if so, exactly what is happening. My initial suggestion for samples:

1. control white spirit. Tested once and then again 6 weeks later.
2. control #2 white spirit heated to 150 in double boiler
3. microwaved white spirit (minor dose TBD) using the FS method
4. microwaved white spirit (major dose TBD)
5. ultrasounded white spirit (minor dose TBD)
6. ultrasounded white spirit (major dose TBD)

Questions for HD:
- other variables that are worth looking at? Suggest away!
- the distiller wants to look at alcohol %. Should EACH sample be duplicated at, say 60% and 85%? Or just, say, samples #4 and 6?
- stability seems to be an issue for some people. Should some/all of these samples be tested again after a certain time period?
- is the ultrasound power a variable?
- who out there (ideally stateside) has a ultrasonic cleaner? I’d rather not buy one just for this trial, if I can avoid it.

TRIAL B: to study the “speed aging” effects of microwave and ultrasonic on white spirit and oak. Currently, the almost-consensus seems to be that the heat and vacuum simply “sucks” flavors from the oak. I’d like to see if a). the same flavors are extracted as with traditional aging, b). whether the heating of the wood (at least with microwave) somehow changes the flavors that are extracted.

1. control white spirit
2. control #2 white spirit traditionally aged on oak.
3. control #3 white spirit “speed aged” with vacuum (no or minimal heat)
4. white spirit microwaved with oak (FS Method)
5. white spirit ultrasonically aged with oak.


Questions for HD:
- should there be a JD chips vs. oak stave trial?


So there it is. I look forward to hearing all your suggestions and thoughts.

Badger

[Lucent]

With HD being the largest distilling forum on the internet, i felt it was only appropriate to share this idea and method with some of the true professionals that participate at HD on a daily basis.

I was watching a tv special on making whiskey when this came to me. They age the kegs in an open warehouse 3 or 4 stories tall. They rotate the kegs from from the top to the bottom on a set basis.
During the heat of the day the metal roof elevates the temperature up to a max of 150 degree's f at the roof level and then it drops back to normal temperature during the night only to repeat again the next day.

I was trying to equate something like that for us at a hobby level and came up with this.

I took a bag of Jack Daniels BBQ smoking chips and when I opened it got a great aroma of JD whiskey from the chipped barrel staves. This was my basis.

**(since this original trial, experiments with split oaks and various domino's and spirals and other wood types have been tested... oak, apple, cherry and a few exotic woods)

I started with sweet feed single run at 75 abv. I used a 8 fluid ounce cup and filled it level to the lip with JD chips which I then put in a 1.3 liter jar. I filled the jar with the 75 abv SF, leaving 1.5 inches of head space and I then put the jar into a 1200 watt microwave oven and heated it for 2 minutes. The temperature of the chips and alcohol was about 150f when it was removed. I screwed the cap on the jar and tightened it securely.

**(I personally have microwaved hundreds of batches of high abv with no issues, but i make sure that there is not metal on my jars, no lids or anything that could cause issues. IF i did have an ignition i would simple place a flat dish over the top of the jar to smother it at the source.)

As the liquid cooled down it puts a vacuum on the chips and liquid, i think this is a very important part of the method. I shook the jar a few time and you will start to see a color change almost as you look at the jar. Set the jar on a counter and let it cool slowly back to room temperature.

When the jar is cool you may shake it a few times and then open it slowly, you should hear the vacuum break as the lid is turned. the chips which are no longer under a vacuum will suck up some of the high abv liquid. Repeat the microwave heating again and reinstall the lid and let the product cool. You may shake it occasionally if desired... The color will already be a golden brown.... but on the second or third heating you will see a classical reddish hue start to develop in the liquid. Taste test between heats to produce a product that is everything you want it to be taste wise. Continue this process until you have the desired color or taste profile.
**(The color change and flavor imparted to the liquid is much greater the 2nd and 3rd heat/vacuum cycles and beyond.)

Dilute some of the product to 40 abv and you will be amazed as just how close the finished rapidly aged product tastes to Jack Daniels. If want it to be even closer add a drop of your best vanilla extract, and maybe a very small amout of glycerine. The vanilla is for the smallest of flavors found in long term oak aged products and the glycerine smooths the beverage out and gives it a wonderful mouth feel...

Regardless of whether you add the vanilla or glycerine the product has a great flavor and has the Jack Daniels finish.**(IF JD chips are used)

The same process can you used to add bourbon/whiskey oak ageing to your favorite rum.

There are numerous people experimenting with this technique, give it a try and let me know what your thoughts are and how this one could be improved.

Some people have the patience to store their product in a keg for up to 4 years and some of us just wanna have fun. Hope you enjoy this as much as I have been doing while it was in development.

I am continuing the development to include adding flavors to neutrals... peppercorns, herbs and other readily available items.

Thank you Tater and Husker for giving me permission to post and share this with the members here on HD.

FS

Saw this here post and thought I had 33 pages of something to read.

Never got beyond a few lines of this post. Tell me folks why you would go to the trouble of learning to builds a still then of course months of rebuilding it. Then the months and years at perfecting a wash just to mimicking store shelf crap? Then lets talk about microwaving our distillate to make it purty like insense

Wtf

[Richard7]

Saw this here post and thought I had 33 pages of something to read.

Never got beyond a few lines of this post. Tell me folks why you would go to the trouble of learning to builds a still then of course months of rebuilding it.To make better than store shelf Then the months and years at perfecting a wash just to mimicking store shelf crap?Sometimes we chase a flavor of a store shelf but in the end hopefully ours will be better with the removal of continuous distilling and making good cuts we end up without the hang over! Then lets talk about microwaving our distillate to make it purty like insense This is another attempt to get a good product with a step that the big boys are not doing. Right or wrong, this is how we learn

Wtf

That's how I see it.

[Lucent]

Saw this here post and thought I had 33 pages of something to read.

Never got beyond a few lines of this post. Tell me folks why you would go to the trouble of learning to builds a still then of course months of rebuilding it.To make better than store shelf Then the months and years at perfecting a wash just to mimicking store shelf crap?Sometimes we chase a flavor of a store shelf but in the end hopefully ours will be better with the removal of continuous distilling and making good cuts we end up without the hang over! Then lets talk about microwaving our distillate to make it purty like insense This is another attempt to get a good product with a step that the big boys are not doing. Right or wrong, this is how we learn

Wtf

That's how I see it.

That's a shame then, you're eye tensions and your tongue have not recently met your brain... Why taste popular sir? Come to Texas take 1 sip and you'll forget shelf life forever...

And there's plenty of real liker tween here and there, mines just mine

[Richard7]

Oh my taste and brain have met. The stuff I like can't be found on any shelf but mine. I have tried to replicate a few flavors. But I stick to my recipe for my main stock.
Although it's a good experience for me to play with flavors. Your mileage may vary.

[jarheadshiner]

Saw this here post and thought I had 33 pages of something to read.

Never got beyond a few lines of this post. Tell me folks why you would go to the trouble of learning to builds a still then of course months of rebuilding it. Then the months and years at perfecting a wash just to mimicking store shelf crap? Then lets talk about microwaving our distillate to make it purty like insense

Wtf

Well guess you got plenty of time to read something else then

[Lucent]

Oh my taste and brain have met. The stuff I like can't be found on any shelf but mine. I have tried to replicate a few flavors. But I stick to my recipe for my main stock.
Although it's a good experience for me to play with flavors. Your mileage may vary.

Sir I earn mileage with a spectacular amount of fermenters boilers(most for expermenting) and ageing methods you might not believe. Yes my primary tank and boiler are dedicated to that amazing flavour Boka has helped join.

I ferment and distill fruits vegis tables beans grains wheats and every source of potencial awesome that exist, the only tried and true recipes I've done are UJ's and the Panties Dropper(which my wife caught onto and now I side distill the Buckle Hatcher) the banana and apple recipes here have also birthed developing children. And my ONLY attempt at main stream was to go south and chop me a blue agave which cost 200 cash to cross the border with. Needless to say there will be no Lucent Threads to Tequila

[Richard7]

Needless to say there will be no Lucent Threads to Tequila

Yea that Tequila can be a tough one. I have never tried it but have read about attempts.....
To stay on topic have you tried nuking?

[tickle]

i think I'd like some of that bean whiskey

[Lucent]

Needless to say there will be no Lucent Threads to Tequila

Yea that Tequila can be a tough one. I have never tried it but have read about attempts.....
To stay on topic have you tried nuking?

You need ask that? Seriously?

I've nuked... Glass jars buried in white sand on the beach with the tide to cool them. I remember that time I was stranded on the beach and used my own hair to lasso a... What huh now what were we talking about? Turtle soup oh yeah gotta kill them turtles first. Put em in the microwave and spill the tightest bits of wash on them cook for 10 minutes and then make soup. Oh wait that's bratwurst what was the liker recipe again??

[Lucent]

i think I'd like some of that bean whiskey

Sir, I think the mighty bean would surprise you

[tickle]

i think I'd like some of that bean whiskey

Sir, I think the mighty bean would surprise you

oh, I wasn't being smart, that sounds right up my alley. let me know if you start a thread on that, i'll be the first suscriber

but on topic, nuking. its good. i bought a yard sale micro for the garage. i dont like last night's pizza in the microwave....but booze....its a "gotta try it to believe it"

[FullySilenced]

Lucent

Well i can only say that there are a lot of folks trying this with good success... not everyone has your expertise, or time in the craft to have product that's been in the kegs for years on end...

This method does produce an improved taste profile in a very short period of time... Whether its the Fruit Nukin's or a 3 cycle cornflake wash with jd chips or even a UJSM or AG with a toasted stave or spiral... the product can be very drinkable and very enjoyable... Try it or don't try its your gain or your loss..

Happy stillin,

FS

EDIT: As an afterthought I ask that you don't disrespect or disparage those who have given the effort, tried it and are enjoying their success...

[baron4406]

Just completed a run of Odin's rye bread whiskey, Got my usual gallon to oak long term, the rest is my reward to drink white. I do this with all my likker. Sugar head or all grain, if you can't enjoy it after a few days airing right off the still- you need to make cuts better lol. Besides my Vodka/cinnamon experiments I just nuked two quarts of 65% rye bread- one with a 3" section of charred infusion spiral, the other with JD chips. Going for straight rye and a bourbon style. One thing is very apparent the JD chips are dark as heck even after only two rounds. Gonna pull the chips out and let that stuff rest for a few weeks. The spiral is coloring slower but should give a different taste profile. Hey its fun to experiment, as long as I'm getting enough of my liquor on long term again, why not experiment with the rest? Its what this hobby is all about.

[Bushman]

Experimenting can be fun, I hope Badger is able to take it to the next level as he has access to someone that is willing to scientifically test the results. If interested in his plans read back a page or two. He wanted to do side by side tests with both microwave and ultrasonic tests. Hope he is able to get some ultrasonic treated alcohol that have gone through Odin's process for comparison.

[jarheadshiner]

Experimenting can be fun, I hope Badger is able to take it to the next level as he has access to someone that is willing to scientifically test the results. If interested in his plans read back a page or two. He wanted to do side by side tests with both microwave and ultrasonic tests. Hope he is able to get some ultrasonic treated alcohol that have gone through Odin's process for comparison.

Me too. I thought you had recently purchased an ultrasonic cleaner Mr. Bushman... hint hint

[Bushman]

Yes I did and Badger contacted me through a PM to help in this test. I told him I did not feel comfortable mailing him alcohol for testing. I am doing several tests but like many members here it is not through the same scientific equipment. So far I like what I've done with it and at a $148.00 it's been a good investment. Hoping he gets what he needs!

[Badger]

Thanks guys. I have some PMs out to a couple people. We'll see what materializes. If not, I might just get one myself...by the time I pay for shipping and bottles, etc....hell, it might just makes sense. Plus, then I can be as anal-retentively controlling of the process as I like.

What do you think, should I maybe make this topic its own thread?

[jarheadshiner]

Yes I did and Badger contacted me through a PM to help in this test. I told him I did not feel comfortable mailing him alcohol for testing. I am doing several tests but like many members here it is not through the same scientific equipment. So far I like what I've done with it and at a $148.00 it's been a good investment. Hoping he gets what he needs!

Understand that. I honestly didn't know it was illegal to mail alcohol. Had to Google it

Thanks guys. I have some PMs out to a couple people. We'll see what materializes. If not, I might just get one myself...by the time I pay for shipping and bottles, etc....hell, it might just makes sense. Plus, then I can be as anal-retentively controlling of the process as I like.

What do you think, should I maybe make this topic its own thread?

I would start a new thread. There may be some members that have ultrasonic cleaners but don't necessarily want to be involved in this thread for whatever reasons.

[mash rookie]

Yes I did and Badger contacted me through a PM to help in this test. I told him I did not feel comfortable mailing him alcohol for testing. I am doing several tests but like many members here it is not through the same scientific equipment. So far I like what I've done with it and at a $148.00 it's been a good investment. Hoping he gets what he needs!

Hmm.... Break two federal laws. Maybe more? Making prohibited distilled spirits?.. Using the US mail to transport illegal substance?...Interstate something something?... Yeah. I think I would pass on that one too. Dont have to be a laywer to advise against there.

[Badger]

Thanks all. I started a new thread for discussing ultrasonic and microwave lab trials here: http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 7#p7084427

[gonagin58]

I tried it with some sweetfeed whiskey and medium toast american oak chips, works great!

[Doogie]

After 35 pages, has anyone blown up yet?

[FullySilenced]

nope....

[Doogie]

damn, from the first few pages I figured we would have pictures of backyard mushroom clouds posted by now ... will check back in after another 35 pages ...

[FullySilenced]

Son is having a MEMORIAL Day Party at his house... sent a few things... corn likker, sweet feed simi neutral... and ....


NUked Fire Piss is a good recipe.... follow it as PP posted it nuke it till you have a hotter than hell cinnamon solution.... cut it with distilled and sugar and fire up the crowd.... nuked it 4 or 5 times ... added sugar to taste and damn hot and really really tasty... sent it off with a couple cinn sticks in the jar...

edit: oops just realized i sent this out at 150 proof no wonder it was so friggin good hot as f U K gotta remember to not taste and mix....


Made Blueberry FRUIT NUKENS 12oz of blueberries 50aby 1/2 cup of white sugar... nuked 4 times added a little more sugar to taste AWESOME

PP .... WV cooker

thank you