Very easy 15 minute wash

[Schmicter]

Very easy recipe, literally takes me 15-20 minutes to make. Comes off clean, hard for me to detect tails, theres more brandy character in heads. Good for brandy base for maceration fruits, good by itself on a little oak, I even used it as a gin base on the stripping runs. Makes about 2.5 gallons wash
1 can frozen welch’s grape juice(white or purple)
8 qts (2 gal) water approx..
4.5 lbs Sugar.
No other nutrients needed.
First I start hydrating about 2 tsp yeast in 80-90 degree water.
Add 3.5 qts. water to stock pot with 4.5 lbs sugar. Heat to about 100 degrees, turn off heat and let stir to dissolve sugar. I don’t convert sugar. It will dissolve easily with just a little heat, as soon as sugar is dissolved pour in frozen concentrate and stir. Pour into a bucket. Add next 4 qts. of cold water, check SG and adjust with cold water to about 1085. My tap water is at about 68 and brings down the wash to about 90 deg.. Stir yeast that you have hydrating, make sure it is dissolved and temps of the wash and yeast are close. I pour dissolved yeast gently on top. There is plenty of aeration from adding water and stirring my belief is the top is most oxygenated, so I don’t stir dissolved yeast deep into the wash.

Cover and it will take off in about an hour. I let it ferment open for 3-4 days then transfer all into 5 gallon water bottle and attach airlock, no pulp to mess with, no straining. After 14 or so days it will finish and clear. Rack into boiler leaving behind lees.

[pounsfos]

sounds good, 2 week ferment is nice and slow
how does it go in terms of clearing?

[SoTaShine]

I did a very similar wash

4 gallons water
7 pounds sugar
1 welches white grape concentrate
1 pack champagne yeast

Mixed it all up and threw the airlock on started bubbling within 30 mins continued to bubble for 3 MONTHS I'm sure i screwed something up since it took that long to ferment our just way to much sugar either way it cleared crystal clear to a nice yellow tint. Smells good probably run it in my small still this weekend. Didn't take readings so no clue what the abv is.

[Odin]

What's welch?

Odin.

[bluenose]

a brand of grape juice in north america

[Schmicter]

sounds good, 2 week ferment is nice and slow
how does it go in terms of clearing?

It clears very good after it stops. I ferment in a clear water 5 gal. bottle and can easily rack off the clear leaving behind the lees by looking through the bottle and just keeping the end of the siphon under the surface and tilting the bottle until I see it pulling up the sediment

[Gaztops]

a brand of grape juice in north america

The UK also has the Welch brand, i didn't know this until recently.

[firewater706]

so it carries over the flavor from the welch's? I would have thought all of that would have been stripped out.

[Jimbo]

What's welch?

Odin.

Welches grape juice is a concentrate made from Concord grapes, vitus labrusca. They have a very unique strong grapey flavor. Do you have these in Holland Odin? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concord_(grape" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow)

Another unique one in this country down south where its warm are muscadine grapes. Scuppernong are a variety and make a delicious sweet wine with a very unique flavor.

[Boda Getta]

Sounds good. What is the typical ABV of this style wash.
Also Jimbo, are you aware of a commercially available concentrate for Muscadine or Scuppernong?
BG

[Jimbo]

Sounds good. What is the typical ABV of this style wash.
Also Jimbo, are you aware of a commercially available concentrate for Muscadine or Scuppernong?
BG

I havent seen it but I sure would like to find some. I did a little googling and discovered Welches white grape is made with 100% Niagara grapes. And welches standard is 100% Concord. Be an interesting experiment to make a brandy from each and see how they compare.

[Schmicter]

Jimbo...I have one of each fermenting right now and will be running them next week. I will post the comparison between the white and purple. I have ran the purple a few times and it always ferments dry with a starting SG of about 1.080, so I assume the ABV is around 11-12%. I've ran through pot still and consistently pull off after cuts 50-60% ABV I would say the purple as a character of Brandy not a heavy in your face flavor, mostly in heads portion, with hearts more neutral, We will see how the white compares.

[Boda Getta]

Schmicter:
Please share the exact recipe you are using.
thanks,
BG

[Jimbo]

Sounds good Schmicter. In addition to the recipe, per Boda below, please let us know how the ferment starts and ferment rate for each. From Welch's website they add potassium metabisulfite to the white but not the purple. Ive always been curious how the sulfites in packaged juices affects fermentation. This is perfect test case, one with, one without. Thanks.

[SailorJerry]

Welches is how I started making wine back in the day for canoe trips! Man this could bring back some memories!

[Jimbo]

haha, so how was it Jerry? Did you mix up welches to a gravity to give 13%? Sugar too or just concentrate? How did it taste. Im giving serious thought to trying some straight welches for both wine and brandy. I have a couple grape plants, but by the time I battle the white wasps and japanese beetles for the fruit its almost not worth the pain in the ass.

[Schmicter]

Ahh..yes, I,ve done the Welch,s purple wine . I think it was a can of welchs per gallon of water and sugar I fermented dry and didn’t care much for it as a wine. If you sweeten it it will be like Mogan David. Or Manashevitz.
The exact recipe I use for distilling is as the original post. The very first thing is to get the yeast hydrating in 80-90 degree water before you start I use about 2 tsp bakers, 1 can Welch’s, 4.5 lbs sugar about 2 gal. water.
I don’t precisely measure the water because I start with 3 ½ qts water and barely heat to dissolve all the sugar. Add the frozen welch’s can then pour into the ferment bucket. I then cool this mixture with 4 more qts of cold as the tap can get water. This drops the temp down to yeast pitching temps. I then measure the SG, which is usually around 1.090-1.095, then I add a cup of cold water at a time and bring it down to 1.080, check temps of mixture and hydrating yeast then pitch yeast. I do it this way because it literally takes me 15 minutes, you could go ahead and simmer the sugar and water to higher temps if you want to convert, but it takes longer over the stove, then a long time to cool. If your temps are close to yeast hydrated properly it will start in about an hour, slow in about 3 days and settle and clear in about 14. I have some purple now that is at 16 days and is settled clear as water, an occasional very fine bubble rising from the lees, but will run this weekend. The white is at about 8 days, still cloudy and bubbling.

If you don't have a hydrometer...you need one. But if you dissolve the 4.5 lb sugar in 3.5 qts, add 1 can Welch's, cool with 4.5 qts in the bucket, your SG will be around 1.080 and potential ABV 10-13%. After all said and done volume will be closer to 2.5 gallons.

Also Potassium metabisulphite is a common additive used in wine making, to sterilize musts sometimes referred to as K-meta. It doesn't affect the fermentation.

[Boda Getta]

I want to use the Concord Welch's and try for a decent faux Brandy. I will use a pot still and do a stripping run, than a slow spirit run, then some time in a 3 gal charred keg before additional aging on glass. Any suggestions in how to maximize the "brandy" taste. What would be the effect of diluting the low wine before spirit run with back set from the stripping run. Any suggestions or comments would be greatly appreciated.

BG

[Jimbo]

Any suggestions in how to maximize the "brandy" taste.

BG

Dont use any sugar. Use enough concentrate to get an 8% wash, ferment it out and run it. If you run it twice, add a can of concentrate to the low wines. I will be doing this exact thing myself here shortly.

Sugar not only dilutes flavors, it adds its own 'flavor' which, IMO, is not the nicest. Ive made fruit wines and fruit brandies for years with and without sugar. Comparing them, there's no contest. In fact thats whats made me anti-sugar for years. Its only recently I started making sugar washes out of the 50 lbs of spent grain from a bourbon run. They are nice, but still have that 'sugar' taste, that makes me want to mix the shit with soda or juice when I drink it. Anyway, I digress....

[Schmicter]

I’ve run a few fruit wines that were heavier on fruit and they definitely carry over the brandy flavor. Like Jimbo suggests a pure welch’ wash to 8% will for sure.
This quick/easy recipe is more neutral and good for macerations or a little oak, I think it is versatile. I generally run it once through a pot and keep some heads, no tails and put on oak chips for a week and like it straight over ice. I am by no means a Brandy connoisseur. I’ve also used it after stripping for a gin that I ran through with botanicals for the spirit and liked it very much, by no means a “dry” gin however.

[Boda Getta]

Jimbo;
Thanks for the suggestion; how many cans per gal water do you plan to use for yours?

BG

[Jimbo]

Dunno yet, never done one. Ill post up soon as I buy a dozen cans of welches and get busy soon.

[SailorJerry]

The wine was really good. But I never got it the same everytime. But i used both purple and white and white peach. It all was good!

[Jimbo]

Did some math and checked Welches website again.

There's 216 gr of sugar in 1 can of welches grape (purple). It takes 1.13 lbs of sugar per gallon to make 8% wash (1.052). So it takes 2.4 cans of concentrate mixed with 100oz of water to make a gallon of 8% ABV.

Or, conveniently, EXACTLY 12 cans to make 5 gallons of 8% wash.

If youre making wine to drink, prolly shoot for 13%. 3.9 (4) cans to make a gallon.

Cheers

[Kravenhed]

Well I'll have to admit, my wife has been bugging me do something with grapes, and I dunno nuthing about wines so this is gonna come in real handy. Thank ya fella for the recipe.

[Schmicter]

Update on White VS Purple.
After 14 days the purple was clear as water so I ran the 2+ gallons last weekend, pitched the first 100 ml., saved 1.2 ltr of 55% ABV. (nice clean taste, a little brandiness, I like some heads in this wash)
I am still waiting on the White to clear it is defintely longer in the ferment than the purple, it has been 14 days, has slowed but still going enough to be cloudy. Looks like I will have to wait another week for the white to run.

[acfixer69]

Did some math and checked Welches website again.

There's 216 gr of sugar in 1 can of welches grape (purple). It takes 1.13 lbs of sugar per gallon to make 8% wash (1.052). So it takes 2.4 cans of concentrate mixed with 100oz of water to make a gallon of 8% ABV.

Or, conveniently, EXACTLY 12 cans to make 5 gallons of 8% wash.

If youre making wine to drink, prolly shoot for 13%. 3.9 (4) cans to make a gallon.

Cheers

Did some math on the welches also and need a second opinion. I got 240 g but I think I took total carbs not sugar carbs but still got a number problem.
If it takes 12 cans for a 5 gal wash to get 8% abv. I do 25 gal ferments and that is 60 cans @ $2.50 ea= $210.00 with 8% abv =2 gal total alcohol with no cuts makes some very $$$$$ brandy.
Im corn fused AC

[Schmicter]

I would suggest if you are making wine check Jack Keller recipe and your hydrometer, it uses 2 cans per gallon http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/reques65.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow.
If using for a brandy you can forget the pectic enzyme and citric acid and nutrients.
If making an easy 15 minute wash that will carry some brandy flavor just use 1 can frozen to 2 gallons of water, use your hydrometer and add sugar to whatever percent ABV you want to start at. It is much easier and probably more accurate to use a hydrometer than to calculate percentages of sugar by volume. So, for a 25 gal wash it would be 12-13 cans of Welch's + 48 lb sugar + about 23-25 gallons water, use hydrometer when adding water to get to 1.050-1.090. I use 1 can frozen to about 4 lb sugar to 2 gal. water and get SG of 1.08-1.09, and get some carryover in a pot, I kind of use the concentrate as the nutrient for a sugar wash and it ferments great with no other nutrients added. In fact on my next batch I am going to reduce the concentrate volume to about 1/2 can to 2 gallons and see if it produces a good ferment. You can add as much frozen concentrate per gallon as you want and measure and cut back some on the sugar. The more concentrate per gallon the more carryover of brandiness when running. So, I guess just try whatever amount of concentrate per gallon you want and see if you like it.

[Jimbo]

AC, 60 cans at 2.50 is 150 not 210. But youre correct thats still very expensive brandy. I do a 25 gallon all grain whiskey mash at 8% for an $11 bag of corn and about $10 in malt. I think Ill skip the expensive brandy and just try some Welches wine first

Schmicter, my figgerin below was for an all grape wine, no sugar. Not a huge fan of sugar in wines, made several over the years and they never rock my world. Can taste that sugar fermentation products. I normally stay away from sugar in spirits as well, for the same reason, but I do make a sugarhead out of the 60 lbs of spent corn and malt from a batch of bourbon. Its not terrible, but can still taste the sugar thing going on. Its fine buried in a cherry panty dropper tho

[acfixer69]

AC, 60 cans at 2.50 is 150 not 210. But youre correct thats still very expensive brandy. I do a 25 gallon all grain whiskey mash at 8% for an $11 bag of corn and about $10 in malt. I think Ill skip the expensive brandy and just try some Welches wine first

Schmicter, my figgerin below was for an all grape wine, no sugar. Not a huge fan of sugar in wines, made several over the years and they never rock my world. Can taste that sugar fermentation products. I normally stay away from sugar in spirits as well, for the same reason, but I do make a sugarhead out of the 60 lbs of spent corn and malt from a batch of bourbon. Its not terrible, but can still taste the sugar thing going on. Its fine buried in a cherry panty dropper tho

Thanks Jimbo for the stupid error fix. I did that one in my head since it was simple math and never looked back.
Still a wash to costly ATM.
I may after spent light malt grain wash toss in 4 or 5 frozen juice cans in a sugar wash and see if we get a brandy tint.
I like this thread thread has got me thinking bout stuff....
Thanks Schmicter