Jimbo's easy 1/2barrel Wheated Bourbon and Gumballhead

[midwest shinner]

Mashing is certainly something a lot of folks over complicate and over think, only a few things you need to keep in mind or watch out for to be successful. Anyway, great job breaking it all down.

[flht01]

Quick question on the gumball. I squeezed out a 12 gallon mash last night ( thanks BoomTown for the mop bucket tip ) and ended up with 10.5 gallons of wash. To keep the grain from sitting too long, I cooked the sugar, cooled it with frozen backset from the previous run and poured it over the grain bed. This morning the airlocks are working but seem to getting off to a slow start. Since I'm going to let the wash settle a day or so before running it, should I be doing something different to preserve the grain bed until I can pour the trub back in it after letting the wash settle? I hate to reopen the fermenters and add it after they've started fermenting.

Thanks

[Jimbo]

Checking my understanding, you squeezed out the AG grains and are letting them settle right now. In the mean time you cooked up some sugar and poured it over the grain bed. And it started working again, youre question is, is it ok to dump the gloop from the bottom of the buckets into the fermenter the next day after the grain and sugar already started again? If I understood that correctly, the answer is yes. The gloop is basically mostly yeast, if the fermenter is off to a slow start with the residual yeast on the grain, it sure wont be anymore after you dump pounds of yeast in there.

Ive done it both ways, let the grain sit dry in a sealed fermenter overnight, then added the gloop and sugar wash together, And Ive also done it seperate like youre talking about. Both ways worked out fine

[BoomTown]

Quick question on the gumball. I squeezed out a 12 gallon mash last night ( thanks BoomTown for the mop bucket tip ) ...sure, thanks!...Since I'm going to let the wash settle a day or so before running it, should I be doing something different to preserve the grain bed until I can pour the trub back in it after letting the wash settle? I hate to reopen the fermenters and add it after they've started fermenting.

Thanks

Me, I'll share another trick I use too. I took piece of 2" PVC about 18" long, put a cap on the bottom end of it, and drilled about a dozen 3/8" hole in the bottom 4 inches. I slipped the 2" into one of those paint strainer bags, and sewed up the side, top to bottom and cut away the rest of the strainer bag, leaving a fitted strainer sleave for the 2". I stick the pipe into the sleeve, and this down into the bottom of the fermented beer, and syphon the beer away from the grains with a clear vynal hose, leaving that last gallon or so in the bottom.

While that's draining, I then I put my sugar and 2 gallons of water into a kettle and heat it up till the sugar is completely melted and the water almost boiling. I pour 2 gallon of cool water into the grains, then add the hot sugar water to the fermenter, so as not to shock the yeast with too much temperature change, take the SG reading and slap the top on it. That way, the beer out is pretty clear already, and can be distilled without waiting the 2 or 3 days. You still can wait if you want, you'll simply end up with a lot less yeast transferred to your beer bucket when you rack off the fluids this way, at least until the end of the 3rd cycle, when I squeeze the grains dry using the mop wringer.

And yep, by next morning, it's perking away. I've noticed that the 2nd and 3rd sugar fermentations work out faster than the first AG process, and the output is higher.

But then, that's just me....

[flht01]

Checking my understanding, you squeezed out the AG grains and are letting them settle right now. In the mean time you cooked up some sugar and poured it over the grain bed. And it started working again, youre question is, is it ok to dump the gloop from the bottom of the buckets into the fermenter the next day after the grain and sugar already started again? If I understood that correctly, the answer is yes. The gloop is basically mostly yeast, if the fermenter is off to a slow start with the residual yeast on the grain, it sure wont be anymore after you dump pounds of yeast in there.

Ive done it both ways, let the grain sit dry in a sealed fermenter overnight, then added the gloop and sugar wash together, And Ive also done it seperate like youre talking about. Both ways worked out fine

That's what I was trying to say, Jimbo. I was able to get about 2 more quarts of "gloop" in each fermenter this evening and it's helping. Only one was still a little slow but I added it to the other one anyway. Thanks for the help with this. On my next all grain I'll leave enough space in the fermentation vessels to hold the complete volume of settlement.

Me, I'll share another trick I use too. I took piece of 2" PVC about 18" long, put a cap on the bottom end of it, and drilled about a dozen 3/8" hole in the bottom 4 inches. I slipped the 2" into one of those paint strainer bags, and sewed up the side, top to bottom and cut away the rest of the strainer bag, leaving a fitted strainer sleave for the 2". I stick the pipe into the sleeve, and this down into the bottom of the fermented beer, and syphon the beer away from the grains with a clear vynal hose, leaving that last gallon or so in the bottom.

...Now I like that idea,I'll build one tomorrow. Getting most of the liquid out of the fermenter will make scooping and squeezing the grains a lot easier with less mess.

While that's draining, I then I put my sugar and 2 gallons of water into a kettle and heat it up till the sugar is completely melted and the water almost boiling. I pour 2 gallon of cool water into the grains, then add the hot sugar water to the fermenter, so as not to shock the yeast with too much temperature change, take the SG reading and slap the top on it. That way, the beer out is pretty clear already, and can be distilled without waiting the 2 or 3 days. You still can wait if you want, you'll simply end up with a lot less yeast transferred to your beer bucket when you rack off the fluids this way, at least until the end of the 3rd cycle, when I squeeze the grains dry using the mop wringer.

And yep, by next morning, it's perking away. I've noticed that the 2nd and 3rd sugar fermentations work out faster than the first AG process, and the output is higher.

...Are you running multiple ferments off the grain bed, similar to UJSSM ?

But then, that's just me....

Thanks for the help

[BoomTown]

...Are you running multiple ferments off the grain bed, similar to UJSSM ?

But then, that's just me....

Thanks for the help

Yeah, but no backwash, the oder upsets the little lady....says the neighbors can smell that Sour Mash, and she don't want no stinky whiskey smelling round here....

[Black Eye]

Jimbo,

Long time no speak... It's been about 4 months now since you posted on this sugar head portion of your experimentation. Have you had a chance to do a side by side comparison of the gimbal head to all grain?

I'm wondering if I'm going to bastardized a nice all grain whiskey by mixing both strippers into a single spirit run.

I'm highly leaning toward not messing with mixing for fear of cutting down the quality of the all grain run.

[Jimbo]

Hey Black Eye Mike! Long time, good to hear from you. Hope things are well with you. Yes, my gumballhead is marked May 13th. Good eye Black Eye.

DONT mix them. The gumballhead is aging up nice on oak. Nice caramelly vanilla sweetness from the oak, unfortunately over a thin tasting whiskey with a little graininess, but generally thin, lacking character and the damn sugarbite flavor sitting in there. Its not bad, dont get me wrong, I know 95% of the good folk here make and love sugarheads, Im certainly not slighting that. But the thinness reminds me of Jack (vats of charcoal filtering) and the sugarbite is unmistakable. I like it with coke, makes a pretty damn fine Jack and Coke clone, due to its similar thinness in character. And thats just fine with me, I love Jack and Coke. So Im going through it readily, with a case of coke.

The AG bourbon tho has a smoothness and richness of flavor that just doesnt compare.

Here's a 3rd party unbiased input - last weekend we had a terrific tasting party. Windy City, Midwest Mike and I. We had a ton of different beverages to work through, so I dont know if them 2 even got to the gumballhead (if you did, please chime in). But Windys friend Steve was there, a whiskey drinker. He tasted a couple of mine and got stuck with the bourbon bottle. He drank 1/2 a fifth. He tried the gumballhead and looked at me funny. Said he's having a hard time getting through it. I told him to have no worries about dumping it and enjoying what he likes. He dumped it.

Long story short. Whiskey drinkers are a finicky lot. We can taste the sugar in a whiskey. Its probably why NO commercial whiskey distillers use sugar. At any rate, its fine with me, especially when done creatively. Midwest brought some of Odins Rye Bread recipe which I enjoyed thoroughly! Any my gumballhead Im going through just fine in mixed drinks. And just to be thorough on teh tasting, altho unrelated to this, Windy shared a Pugirum that was wicked tasty amazing.

[Black Eye]

Thanks for the Input... Definitely keep that in mind.

I got all my Grain in the mail this week so I'm debating on what I'm going to do.... I was planning on a pumpkin whiskey. I'm thinking I might just do the Corn and 2 row ( more beer was out of 6 row) and then add the pumpkin on the grain for a gumball head?

options options options

[Halfbaked]

Punkin whiskey!!!!!!! I have wanted to do this since I started here. What part of the US are you in Blackeye? I have access to punkins punkins and more punkins and truckloads of punkins and Im not operational now. I know punkins are low sugar (I think around 4%) but I would add no sugar cause theyd be free likkker. I might be able to land my hands on enough punkins to make 1,000 gal of punkin beer. OK probly 10 times that if I wanted. Sorry Im not trying to hijack Jimbos wonderful thread.

Glad you came back to visit us Jimbo. Hope you pull up a chair and stay a while. We have missed you and your posts. OK well I have missed all your posts and I am sure that I am the only one that enjoys your reads. I see you are starting to sample your sugar head and I understand you say it is a little lacking on taste. Is it something that the average likker drinker would pick up on or just a connoisseur taste like yours?

[Black Eye]

Well by the Sporting Logo I have.... I'm sure you can guess where I'm from. I'm not making straight up Pumpkin likker, but a corn whiskey that I would add some Pumpkin flavoring to, So for now I'm only going to need a couple pounds of pumpkin. I've seen a few threads here but I was inspired a while ago to do it after reading Alt Whiskey. Those guys over at Corsiar are doing some pretty interesting things. Since I still haven't built a Gin Head I'm just going to mash some Pumpking with my grains for flavor. I like Jimbo's thoughts on Sugar heads on spent grains.... We've been talking about it for a while now, so my thoughts were like I said above Make a corn whiskey ( corn and 2 row) and then use that a as my base for the pumpkin sugarhead on grain. Actually I'm thining about throwing the pumpkin in the smoker to see what I get out of it ??? might smoke it with Corn Cob???? just thinking out loud now.

I might still lean the other way and just throw the pumpkin in while I'm soaking my corn on the initial All grain. I want that grainy flavor, I'm bored running UJ sugar style whiskey. It's good, don't get me wrong, but it's like doing extract beer, very little control over generic flavors the sugar produces. Been stocking up on equipment and grain lately, time to start playing.

[Jimbo]

Halfbaked, thank you for the very kind words. As far as connoisseur goes, LOL, Im none of that. But I do enjoy a good whiskey. Ya, I think anyone could tell the difference, but its all perspective and reference isint it? Meaning, If I didnt drink a lot of whiskey, Id have no baseline or reference for critical comparison. So I might make sugarheads and love them. And that would be my reference, and that would be perfect. Point is, if you make something you like, no matter what it is, that's all that matters. Altho, if you love sugarhead whiskies, Id suggest you not buy too many $50 bottles of bourbon

Black Eye, you probably know this already, but make sure you bake the pumpkin first. Cant imagine it'd be any different for whiskey but for pumpkin beers the pumpkin adds way more flavor if chopped into chunks and baked to soft, and particularly till its caramelized a bit around the edges.

Cheers guys.

[Windy City]

Jimbo and Midwest Shiner brought over to the the tasting party a great selection of spirits ( and also some really great people). There was not a bad one in the bunch (people and spirits) . As far as the AG to sugar head comparison I again have to say they were all good but the problem comes in when they are side by side you are going to grab for the AG (Damm Good) I have not yet done a AG for distilling (I have done many for brewing) still doing my homework but hopefully in a couple weeks I want to start with this recipie. I wasn't going to follow up with a sugar head buy after reading what Jimbo said about using it as a mixer it really made sense
Keep up the good work Jimbo we all appreciate it

Windy City

[tickle]

guys, this is the good stuff. Made easy. I'm a sugar head guy overall, but I did this. Well worth it. Jimbo strips away all the mystery, confusion, and the snobbery, lol. Easy, great, and sized proportionatly, this this a winner! If you have been running uj stuff and considering trying ag, try this. I don't mean to gush, but jimbo rocks it outta the park here. So...ya, maybe a lil bromance....but well deserved. Step up and give it a shot, worst that happens is you sugar it if the conversion doesn't happen
Any votes to see this over in proven?

[Black Eye]

Black Eye, you probably know this already, but make sure you bake the pumpkin first. Cant imagine it'd be any different for whiskey but for pumpkin beers the pumpkin adds way more flavor if chopped into chunks and baked to soft, and particularly till its caramelized a bit around the edges.

Cheers guys.

Definitely gotta roast it.... Or smoke the shit out of it.... Millard reaction type stuff ( I'm not sure if this really falls into that category). Gotta release that good sugary flavor.

What I think gets forgotten on Jimbo's recipe threads is his thoughts on yeast. Jim always gives a lot of input on what yeasts, why he used them, and results. I find myself re reading the recipes for those yeasty details. Until recently I've always relyed on the brew store guys suggestion with out much reasoning behind it all. I appreciate the detail. Stocked up on some in preparation for some brewing.

[Halfbaked]

I think the reason his yeasts are they way they are is he recycles his yeasts. He makes beer and keeps the trub (SP) and pitches it in his whiskey. Save a dollar or 10 and make good likker with it. Jimbo ask your wife if you can come out and play so halfbaked will stop answering your questions that are not asked of him but asked of you. If it is gonna taste great in beer likkkker has to be good

[Halfbaked]

Jimbo do you have a formula of how much punkin likker this would make if no sugar is added? There are 50 acres. And they have been picked over.

the punkin patch.jpg

[Jimbo]

LOL goofball Baked.

0.02 x 1000 x 10 = 200 (lbs sugar) = 200 gallons at 1.046, 6%, so 12 gallons @ 100% or 30 gallons at 40%. 150 fifths at 80 proof.

(pumpkins contain 2% sugar. 1000 punkins there? At 10lbs each?)

How you gonna cook 10,000 lbs of punkins?

[Halfbaked]

1 at a time. 1 at a time.

[Halfbaked]

30 gallons is per acre times 50 acres. We Haven a party at my house

[Jimbo]

guys, this is the good stuff. Made easy. I'm a sugar head guy overall, but I did this. Well worth it. Jimbo strips away all the mystery, confusion, and the snobbery, lol. Easy, great, and sized proportionatly, this this a winner! If you have been running uj stuff and considering trying ag, try this. I don't mean to gush, but jimbo rocks it outta the park here. So...ya, maybe a lil bromance....but well deserved. Step up and give it a shot, worst that happens is you sugar it if the conversion doesn't happen
Any votes to see this over in proven?

Thank you for the very kind words Tickle. Im so happy to hear you had success with this recipe! I been trying to get more folk to try AG's by stripping it down to the simple steps to get some success. Just as you say, take the mystery out of it. Happy it worked out for you. Cheers!

[midwest shinner]

After i get thru running my faux wheat today and rum wash tomorrow i will be starting a few different AG recipes. As you know Jim I've got a fair amount of grains to play with and am planning an AG oats batch and an AG wheated bourbon. Plus Id like to do an AG or rather "AG" sweet feed and a smokey honey single malt. I will definitely be using some of your recipes and will be using this one on my spent grains so i will report back with someresults as soon as i have em. Thanks for breaking down the AG method and simplifying it. I really hope it inspires some others too. Thanks for the work you put into developing your recipes and methods and sharing with all of us

[midwest shinner]

And btw, that was report back with some results, not someresults

[Bushy]

Perfect. This is gonna be my first allgrain wash. Thx Jimbo

[fiugzel]

... Long story short. Whiskey drinkers are a finicky lot. We can taste the sugar in a whiskey. Its probably why NO commercial whiskey distillers use sugar. At any rate, its fine with me, especially when done creatively. ...

Jimbo - how do you feel about using corn sugar instead of refined white sugar? I'm brand new to the shine bidness, but I know I've used corn sugar aplenty brewing beer. I wonder how different the spirit would turn out if you spiked the Gumballhead with dextrose instead of table sugar.

Anyway, I have a 60/40 cracked corn/2row & wheat wort (using NChooch's method) fermenting away right now, but I was disappointed that 6 hours of cooking then mashing only ran me off a 1.040 wort. Also, I scorched my first 7lbs of cracked corn in my small kettle on the stove, so I had to start over. Ugh. I think I'm going to give your recipe a go. Sounds much better to me. A couple questions, though:

• Are you less susceptible to scorching using your method (killing the heat once the water gets close to boil then mix in corn)?
• Do you carry your keggle inside or something once you put the corn in? I can't imagine doing that (both because of the weight and also the skirt is red hot for a while). I only ask because you said you wrap the keggle up with a blanket and leave it overnight. I run my keggle on a burner in the backyard. Doesn't seem like the ambient temps would be the best place to leave the keggle with just a blanket wrapped around it. Do you have a heated garage or something?
• When you're wringing out the grains and corn in 5g paint strainer bag, are you concerned with being sterile? I imagine it's not such a big deal, since you'll be charging that juice into the still soon thereafter. But I guess you would if you were gonna do the Gumballhead ferment.

Whew. Sorry for the long-winded post. I really do appreciate you spelling out these methods for us.

EDIT: also, do you play banjo, man? I'm a professional bassist, and I've been playing banjo and fiddle a lot lately. learning.

[Jimbo]

Hey jay,

No problem with the long post, very happy to answer any questions. Great to see folks trying more AG recipe's around here.

There's no scorching with my method and no stirring corn constantly over fire. By bringing the water to 205F (dont boil it, yeast need the O's in there), then turning off fire and stirring in the corn it will settle in the high 180'sF. I dont move it, yes its way too heavy, but I do wrap it up with flameproof insulation and then a big old quilt. the quilt has some brown marks from that hot ring but it cools off fast enough to not be flammable, I think Keep an eye on it first 10 min regardless. Let it steep for 3 hours minimum, stirring occasionally, and it gelatinizes just fine. Ambient is 70 where I brew.

As far as working sterile. Always, I steriliize everything with Starsan or Iodophor that touches the grains or mash after its below 160F. Buckets, bags, mash paddles, lids, bubblers, hands, everything.

I havent tried doing a gumballhead with corn sugar. Thanks for the idea, Ill try that.

I dont play banjo, but I do play guitar, Been playing in different bands for most of the past 3 decades. Currently in an all original Jamband style deal with some great guys (Govt Mule-ish). Almost have enough songs now with this band of heathens to get out and start playing again. Tested a few of our songs at an outdoor gig in August, went well. Here's a shot of our drummer and I sittin in with a blues solo guy who asked us to join him as he was gearing up to play LOL, same outdoor gig in August. http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 6#p7100616 How about you? Standup bass?

[fiugzel]

Yeah, I figured you were in a garage or something. See, I don't have that luxury. I fire up my kettles in my backyard.

I was kicking around the idea of getting the water close to 212F then pouring it into my mash tun (a cooler) so I can mix and keep it all inside, but I'm worried about the walls cracking and/or warping. BUT.. I just got 2 sweet new 15g food-grade plastic drums with nice wide lids and hefty handles. I think I'll use that wrapped in a blanket for my corn stage. Then it'll serve as my mash tun, and finally the fermenter.

Once you're done with the mash, do you use any kind of chiller to get it down to pitching temps, or do you just wait it out?

Yeah, I play upright and electric bass. Plus a little piano, drums, fiddle, banjo, & guitar (from best to worst, lol). Blues/rock jamband? Sounds awesome.

[Jimbo]

If I start a batch after work, after dinner, typical. Its like 8PM. Hot and on the corn by 10PM. Stir a couple times before bed. Wrapped up it holds heat and Im near mashing temp in the morning after I transfer to 18g plastic drum. 630AM. Usually takes some stirring with a fan on the drum. Then I pitch at 145 or so, wrap back up, and go to work. When I get home I unwrap and point a fan at the barrel. After dinner I can pitch or maybe need to drop a wort chiller in there for a bit (sterilized).

This method lets me do a batch around work on a weekday over a 24 hour period. Weekends are usually pretty loaded with kid stuff and wifey lists, altho I often do a batch, or maybe a beer or boiler run then too time permitting.

ya, I guess hard driving austin blues with a dose of Jimmy Herring and Santana I guess. LOL. I dont know, those are the folks/styles people tell me I sound like.

[Black Eye]

I've done a recipe similar to this and I used a cooler. Worked well but if was a little hard to cool down. No problems with the cooler. I also used a smaller paint paddle mixer to mix the mash. The kind made for a 5 gallon that connects to a drill.

I wouldn't try sparging this with out a lot if rice hulls. It was a pain in the ass to transfer to my fermenter but it worked well fermenting on the grains.

Give her a try

[Halfbaked]

Jimbo Do you prefer US04 or US 05 or Burton or Nottingham for this receiptat 70 degrees or less Why?