Oak vs. Other Woods

[Paracelsus]

Please see this post before you do anything: http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 9#p7010291

[Drunken Unicorn]

That's kind of the magic question. How do we test woods and be safe? A lot of the woods on the irritant list are there for inhalation of the dust. While I'm sure anything marked "direct toxin" should probably not be drunk, I'm not sure there is a direct correlation between inhaling dust and drink a spirit.

I do think cation and research should be done on any wood that has been tested before. Especially mahogany being that it seems to be spoofed a lot according to that thread.

-DU

[Bushman]

Look up Darek Bell of Corsair Distilleries, he is or has written a book on smoked whiskeys. He lists a lot of different woods and herbs he has used. He is also a presenter at the ADI conference.

[Drunken Unicorn]

Here is one of his books: Alt Whiskey. It's on my buy list.
http://www.amazon.com/Alt-Whiskeys-Alte ... 496&sr=1-1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[hitek redneck]

has anyone tried alder and by alder I mean the gnarled looking stuff you see near wetlands or taking over old fields. have a pile of it here and thinking on trying it. Its good wood to use in the smoker so thought it might be good for fine spirits

[sdoherty]

Hi all... 1st post .. I used Red Oak - made nice color in a few days - toasted oak btw.. tasted pretty good after 3 weeks but I think that it is causing some type of allergic reaction as it makes swallowing difficult but I soldiered through it. I will not use it again. I have a ton of it for firewood but no white oak. I got some via ebay so am waiting on it. YMMV but for me the red oak definitely caused an issue more than once. Never had this issue with other whiskies or the raw dog..

I also noticed on ebay again they had jack daniels barrell bits for grilling - anyone try these?

On another note there is a distillery near me - wasmonds in VA that does floor maltings!! - only distillery in North America to do this. I wonder if they might lend/sell me some of their finished grain or would that just be shooting themselves in the foot.. they also sell barrels and it might be worth a trip to get a few and also take a tour.. TY

[Bushman]

Hi all... 1st post .. I used Red Oak - made nice color in a few days - toasted oak btw.. tasted pretty good after 3 weeks but I think that it is causing some type of allergic reaction as it makes swallowing difficult but I soldiered through it. I will not use it again. I have a ton of it for firewood but no white oak. I got some via ebay so am waiting on it. YMMV but for me the red oak definitely caused an issue more than once. Never had this issue with other whiskies or the raw dog..
Definitely a differents in the oaks, stay with either American white or French white oak
I also noticed on ebay again they had jack daniels barrell bits for grilling - anyone try these?
Those are very popular here on the forum and used all the time.
On another note there is a distillery near me - wasmonds in VA that does floor maltings!! - only distillery in North America to do this. I wonder if they might lend/sell me some of their finished grain or would that just be shooting themselves in the foot.. they also sell barrels and it might be worth a trip to get a few and also take a tour.. TY
No answer to this question

[Drunken Unicorn]

On another note there is a distillery near me - wasmonds in VA that does floor maltings!! - only distillery in North America to do this. I wonder if they might lend/sell me some of their finished grain or would that just be shooting themselves in the foot.. they also sell barrels and it might be worth a trip to get a few and also take a tour.. TY

Probably best not to ask them. Also, they are not the only distillery in the US to floor malt. Rogue Spirits in Oregon floor malts for their Single Malt Whisky.

Thanks for the information on the Red Oak. I'll stay away from that one.

[Edailey002]

Thought I should throw this in here. This is what I know about wood in general as far as safety goes. Everyone is different as are there allergies.

For instance, I love working with oak ( red or white ) when I do my wood working but it causes me slight breathing problems. A friend of mine loves cedar but absolutely can NOT use it because it puts him in the hospital. The two of us have polar opposite reactions to these two specific woods.

That being said I would advise everyone to find a controlled way to test there own personal responses to different variations of woods in an environment that is as controlled and safe as possible.

Not trying to reiterate what was already said just trying to give examples of potential problems and possible outcomes from real world experience and emphasize the necesaty to use caution when in unfamiliar territory.

I do like the idea very much of using relavent woods to flavor and color different types of likker like fruit trees for brandy. Now it has me thinking about using roots and herbs as well, something like golden seal root and maybe some chestnut for a nice earthy flavor. Hope it doesn't come out like dirt, I'll let you know.

[Woodpile]

A more subtle question. Live Oak is a variety of white oak which is plentiful in the southeast - it is definitely not red, it shares the same tube blocks that make white oak so good for barrels. Live oak is widely used for barrels and old sailing ships because it is even harder than white oak. Anyone ever tried it?

[Tapeman]

I soaked a small amount in some apple shavings and didn't taste very great so I removed the apple and added white oak and it's much better. The apple added a nice flavor that wasn't there before.

[S-Cackalacky]

I haven't done a taste test yet, but I just bottled up a quart of SF nuked with apple wood and another nuked with pecan wood. The apple is very dark and seems a little cloudy. The pecan is a beautiful dark burgandy brown and very clear. I toasted and charred both and hope I didn't take it too far. The two quarts were from the same jug of SF whitedog, so I have to think the cloudiness of the apple wood one is somehow related to the wood. Anyone else experienced this with apple wood?

I was also wondering if anyone has done anything with perssimon wood. I know the unrippened fruit is very extringient. Just wondering if the wood would have the same property.

And, what about tropical fruit woods - mango in particular. Any of you in those growing regions tried mango or other tropical fruit woods yet?

S-C

[S-Cackalacky]

I haven't done a taste test yet, but I just bottled up a quart of SF nuked with apple wood and another nuked with pecan wood. The apple is very dark and seems a little cloudy. The pecan is a beautiful dark burgandy brown and very clear. I toasted and charred both and hope I didn't take it too far. The two quarts were from the same jug of SF whitedog, so I have to think the cloudiness of the apple wood one is somehow related to the wood. Anyone else experienced this with apple wood?

I was also wondering if anyone has done anything with perssimon wood. I know the unrippened fruit is very extringient. Just wondering if the wood would have the same property.

And, what about tropical fruit woods - mango in particular. Any of you in those growing regions tried mango or other tropical fruit woods yet?

S-C

Well, I poured a little glass of the apple wood nuked SF (neat) and it has a distinct charcoal taste. I guess I either went too far with the nuking, or I maybe shouldn't have charred. But hey, it still don't taste half bad. I'll try the pecan tomorrow night.

S-C

[sdoherty]

Well I took the time to visit my 1st distillery right here in VA. They do floor maltings of barley and then smoke it in a makeshift but effective smoke room using applewood. They also age in oak casks with a trapdoor where they dip fruitwood. The whiskey is unusual but good - i bought a 1 year old Rye. And they also sold me 25 lbs. of their smoked barley!

[Halfbaked]

Are you talking about copper fox? What you think of it? Worth how many hour drive?

[sdoherty]

Yes copper fox, worth the 1.5 hr drive for me. Sperryville is a neat little town. They showed the floor malting and the smoking of the barley. No tasting are offered yet though. Plus on the way back stopped at rappahonick vinery for a quick tasting. Copy fox distills their brandy for their fortified port and also sells them used barrels.

[Halfbaked]

Knowing what you know now how far would you drive to see it for the first time? I am saying for me. They sold their stuff on site right? Did you get one of the barrels and hooch to go in it? How much that smoked barley set you back?

[scout]

I have successfully used; white oak, pecan, pear, apple, hickory, orange and lemon tree woods (heart wood only) for making barrels for whisky aging. Most of my trials are done thusly; I make a 1 gal barrel, fill it and let it age for 6 months then draw a sample and do a three person taste test. I don't count myself as one of the tasters. Now if I were to use a "questionable" wood to make a barrel for whisky use, I would send a sample to a lab for toxic testing. The hardest for me of the above woods was the lemon and orange, I could only get 4 stave pieces from a section of tree trunk simply because the wood (tree trunks) I received was not large enough to get anymore out of them. I like to keep to heart wood for staves. I have found that my shaping has to be spot on for pecan, hickory and orange because they swell less when compared to white oak, so when making tights I have to start tighter to get a no leak barrel. I do not char orange, apple, pecan, pear or lemon wood (tried that and my tongue didn't care for the taste).

[DAD300]

A hair off topic, but not so far. We have lemon grass in our backyard and it makes a great lemon note in vodka or rum.

[S-Cackalacky]

I have successfully used; white oak, pecan, pear, apple, hickory, orange and lemon tree woods (heart wood only) for making barrels for whisky aging. Most of my trials are done thusly; I make a 1 gal barrel, fill it and let it age for 6 months then draw a sample and do a three person taste test. I don't count myself as one of the tasters. Now if I were to use a "questionable" wood to make a barrel for whisky use, I would send a sample to a lab for toxic testing. The hardest for me of the above woods was the lemon and orange, I could only get 4 stave pieces from a section of tree trunk simply because the wood (tree trunks) I received was not large enough to get anymore out of them. I like to keep to heart wood for staves. I have found that my shaping has to be spot on for pecan, hickory and orange because they swell less when compared to white oak, so when making tights I have to start tighter to get a no leak barrel. I do not char orange, apple, pecan, pear or lemon wood (tried that and my tongue didn't care for the taste).

That's good to know about not charring the apple and pecan. I made that mistake and may have even over-charred it. I have about two quarts I'll be rerunning through my pot still with some feints I have stored away. BTW, I'm using BBQ chips. I also had a different problem with the apple wood chips. It turned the likker cloudy and would make a foam when shaken vigorously. I suspect that maybe the apple chips weren't properly seasoned. Have you had any similar experiences with apple wood?

Thanks,
S-C

[S-Cackalacky]

Yes copper fox, worth the 1.5 hr drive for me. Sperryville is a neat little town. They showed the floor malting and the smoking of the barley. No tasting are offered yet though. Plus on the way back stopped at rappahonick vinery for a quick tasting. Copy fox distills their brandy for their fortified port and also sells them used barrels.

This is good to know. I didn't realize there was a distillery in Sperryville - not far from me. I had planned to visit the "Belmont Farms Distillery" in Culpeper sometime in the spring. As far as I know they only make two products - a whitedog shine called Virginia Lightning and an aged corn whiskey called Copper Kettle. I'll add Copper Fox to my list of distilleries to visit - also want to visit George's distillery at Mt. Vernon, but it's a bit further away.

Thanks for the info,
S-C

[scout]

I have successfully used; white oak, pecan, pear, apple, hickory, orange and lemon tree woods (heart wood only) for making barrels for whisky aging. Most of my trials are done thusly; I make a 1 gal barrel, fill it and let it age for 6 months then draw a sample and do a three person taste test. I don't count myself as one of the tasters. Now if I were to use a "questionable" wood to make a barrel for whisky use, I would send a sample to a lab for toxic testing. The hardest for me of the above woods was the lemon and orange, I could only get 4 stave pieces from a section of tree trunk simply because the wood (tree trunks) I received was not large enough to get anymore out of them. I like to keep to heart wood for staves. I have found that my shaping has to be spot on for pecan, hickory and orange because they swell less when compared to white oak, so when making tights I have to start tighter to get a no leak barrel. I do not char orange, apple, pecan, pear or lemon wood (tried that and my tongue didn't care for the taste).

That's good to know about not charring the apple and pecan. I made that mistake and may have even over-charred it. I have about two quarts I'll be rerunning through my pot still with some feints I have stored away. BTW, I'm using BBQ chips. I also had a different problem with the apple wood chips. It turned the likker cloudy and would make a foam when shaken vigorously. I suspect that maybe the apple chips weren't properly seasoned. Have you had any similar experiences with apple wood?

Thanks,
S-C

I use thick wood, I've never tried chips or such.
I split out my staves with a froe, on the quarter (quarter sawn) then let them air dry for a year. Next I pull out the shaving horse (the bench we use to shape staves with the draw knife and/or scorp) and shape them up at which point they go back on the drying rack for another 6 months. After that, it's time to bevel the ends and start making the barrel. I do all woods this way. Easiest way to test for dry wood is to heat it over an open flame. If it is dry enough it won't send sap out of the end grain.

[S-Cackalacky]

I'll pull out a few larger pieces and try your heat test. Interesting skill - coopering. How did you acquire that particular skill?

I had a shaving horse and a couple of nice draw knives for a while for making rustic bench legs and walikin' sticks. Had to give it up due to physical health problems. It was a nice hobby and (like stillin') made me feel good when something turned out nice.

Thanks for your reply,
S-C

[Truckinbutch]

My ha is off to anyone that coopers . Did a bit of it in my younger days and decided it was not a career for me . It was enough that I repaired a couple barrels and made two to prove to myself that I could do it .

[scout]

I'll pull out a few larger pieces and try your heat test. Interesting skill - coopering. How did you acquire that particular skill?

I had a shaving horse and a couple of nice draw knives for a while for making rustic bench legs and walikin' sticks. Had to give it up due to physical health problems. It was a nice hobby and (like stillin') made me feel good when something turned out nice.

Thanks for your reply,
S-C

I came to coopering honestly. It's been the family business since 1921, in this country. I don't know for certain when we got started at it in County Cork, but the building there was constructed in 1793. The Distilling came to me the same way, but from my grandfather's side of the tree. It's just a part of my way of life. I built my first "all by myself" barrel in 1959 it was a cute little thing and is now a lamp base. I became a tight man in 1961.

[Truckinbutch]

I'll pull out a few larger pieces and try your heat test. Interesting skill - coopering. How did you acquire that particular skill?

I had a shaving horse and a couple of nice draw knives for a while for making rustic bench legs and walikin' sticks. Had to give it up due to physical health problems. It was a nice hobby and (like stillin') made me feel good when something turned out nice.

Thanks for your reply,
S-C

I came to coopering honestly. It's been the family business since 1921, in this country. I don't know for certain when we got started at it in County Cork, but the building there was constructed in 1793. The Distilling came to me the same way, but from my grandfather's side of the tree. It's just a part of my way of life. I built my first "all by myself" barrel in 1959 it was a cute little thing and is now a lamp base. I became a tight man in 1961.

And a tip of my hat to you , sir .

[S-Cackalacky]

I'll pull out a few larger pieces and try your heat test. Interesting skill - coopering. How did you acquire that particular skill?

I had a shaving horse and a couple of nice draw knives for a while for making rustic bench legs and walikin' sticks. Had to give it up due to physical health problems. It was a nice hobby and (like stillin') made me feel good when something turned out nice.

Thanks for your reply,
S-C

I came to coopering honestly. It's been the family business since 1921, in this country. I don't know for certain when we got started at it in County Cork, but the building there was constructed in 1793. The Distilling came to me the same way, but from my grandfather's side of the tree. It's just a part of my way of life. I built my first "all by myself" barrel in 1959 it was a cute little thing and is now a lamp base. I became a tight man in 1961.

Haven't been on this thread for a while. Same as TB, a respectful tip of the hat. Traditional skills are much to be admired. Do you make the traditional poitin of Ireland?

S-C

[scout]

yes I make Poitin (pure barley malt) also make Uisgebeatha, a corn/rye/barley(the corn and barley are malts the rye is cracked) and Ozarks pure corn whisky (corn malt and cracked corn) I also make a corn malt and corn meal on occassion. I age my barley whiskies in barrels (traditional) but the corn I also keep traditional (in quart mason or ball jars). Might get around to setting up a barrel of corn whisky sometime, I've been reading here about folks doing that, but I like it as it comes from the worm.

[S-Cackalacky]

yes I make Poitin (pure barley malt) also make Uisgebeatha, a corn/rye/barley(the corn and barley are malts the rye is cracked) and Ozarks pure corn whisky (corn malt and cracked corn) I also make a corn malt and corn meal on occassion. I age my barley whiskies in barrels (traditional) but the corn I also keep traditional (in quart mason or ball jars). Might get around to setting up a barrel of corn whisky sometime, I've been reading here about folks doing that, but I like it as it comes from the worm.

Some of my family roots go back to Ireland. It's good to know that some of the old traditions are still alive. Honored to make your acquaintance.

S-C

[scout]

A top-o-the day to you kind sir. May all your whisky be smooth as a babe's behind and as strong as their lungs a crying. I'm third generation here in the states, for the Irish and Scotsman parts (me dad's side o the tree), the rest o me is Nakota and Austrian (good ole mom's side o the tree). Tis the Irish bit that's Coopers, Great Uncle Leslie taught me not to make bets with him least I get to learn the trade, which I did and love. The Scots bit is the whisky makers, I was being taught both by the ripe old age of 7.

When you are using fruit woods in your whisky, I'd make sure they are dry as a bone then give em a nice roast, just enough to turn the wood darker. That should make the flavors come nicely. When you make a barrel, the staves are always heated by a fire on the floor, the making barrel sits over it to heat the wood so it will bend nice with out cracking. Now while I've never bothered to look close, I would imagine that the right amount of heat for that step would put a light toast on the innards of the barrel. I've been reading about the use of sticks in glass for this and will be giving it a try this season.