Lester's VM/LM Build

[Lester]

i just bought an alcometer today for $9.00 CDN. i found it at a beer and wine making store. it was the 12th store i went to though. the guy said he doesnt sell many of them. infact the only one hes ever sold was to a guy who thought his kid was stealing his booze. as it turns out the kid was and got busted. pretty funny. however your laws maybe different in the states. you can order them online from several brewing supply sights in canada from 6-11 bucks. good luck.

Thank you Epplimp. I found a set from Brewhaus (online) selling for ~US$13 and that's a good price for me. But the shipping cost to the Philippines (where I am) turned out to be US$43 so the total price I had to pay was US$56. I did not buy it.

[YHB]

Lester,

Two thoughts,

1)

How certain are you of your calculated % ABW ?
Does the weight of the beam on each side affect your calculations?
Have you compared it with a known sample i.e. commercial spirits ?


2)

Take off rate seems very low. Once I finish the heads and switch to hearts my rig seems happiest at 1 or 1.1 litres an hour.
There are two ways of controlling the take off rate.

The first is to open the valve and play with the power setting. This will give you a low reflux ratio and you will be taking off most of the distillate before it has chance to reflux and stabilise - hence variable temperatures.

The second is to increase the power so that you are getting more vapour and then reduce the valve opening.

This will give you a higher reflux ratio and you will be taking off a small part of the distillate allowing the rest to reflux and stabilise. This is why people keep telling you "more power" although you are increasing the amount of heat to the boiler this will not (I think) increase the head temperature.

But apart from all that, the important question is - what does it taste like?

Brian

[Lester]

Lester,

Two thoughts,

1)

How certain are you of your calculated % ABW ?
Does the weight of the beam on each side affect your calculations?
Have you compared it with a known sample i.e. commercial spirits ?


2)

Take off rate seems very low. Once I finish the heads and switch to hearts my rig seems happiest at 1 or 1.1 litres an hour.
There are two ways of controlling the take off rate.

The first is to open the valve and play with the power setting. This will give you a low reflux ratio and you will be taking off most of the distillate before it has chance to reflux and stabilise - hence variable temperatures.

The second is to increase the power so that you are getting more vapour and then reduce the valve opening.

This will give you a higher reflux ratio and you will be taking off a small part of the distillate allowing the rest to reflux and stabilise. This is why people keep telling you "more power" although you are increasing the amount of heat to the boiler this will not (I think) increase the head temperature.

But apart from all that, the important question is - what does it taste like?

Brian

The taste is fantastic!!! Better than what we can buy anywhere here. I asked my teenage son to tell me what my breath smell like and he replied, "I can only smell tobacco". That's after I have ingested about 300ml of 40% Vodka in an hour. It's very clean.

I had visitor's in my home today and to quote their own words, "It's better than any other stuff that we can buy out there!!!"

Yes my take off rate is slow, about 700ml ~ 1 liter in 1 hour. I am seriously looking into getting a bigger burner soon. (I will soon have friends banging on my door demanding stuff so I will have to oblige. ) What I can do at the moment is to keep my exit water temp at 55*C. I did notice that at this water temp I can take out more EtOH without the reflux temp shooting up. I can keep the slide valve fully open (19mm port on a 51mm column) and the reflux temp holds steady for a very long time. If I go for 65*C exit water temp then I see alcohol vapors coming out so I'm sticking with 55~60*C temp for now.

ABV/ABW: At this point I am seriously questioning the validity of my measurement methods/schemes. I will do a complete recalibration of my crude jig tomorrow if only to remove any doubts. 789ml of H2O should weigh the same as 1,000ml of 100% EtOH....... that's my baseline and I can take it anywhere from there.

Cheers!!! This stuff is sooooo good. Thank you!!!!!

[Lester]

I have found my error and it is indeed in my crude measurement readings, but it was not much at 2% error. See my new procedure below.

So I'm getting 90% ABV out of my 4-feet packed length . Dunno why I can't hit 95% with a Birdwatcher's charge at 12% alcohol.


==========================================================================
Procedure for alcohol % by weight - digital scale method

1. Zero out the digital scale with an empty 700ml bottle in place (Tare)
2. Filled the bottle with tap water, reading was 702 gms (this is the expected reading based on the volume of the bottle so my digital meter is accurate enough)
3. Compute for the weight of 100% EtOH: 702 gms x 0.789 = 553.9 gms
4. Emptied the bottle and filled it up with my distilate, Weight = 572 gms

Computations:
100% water = 702g
100% EtOH = 553.9g
My distilate's weight = 572g

ABW = 1- (572g - 553.9g) / (702g - 553.9g)
= 0.87779
Therefore the other components (assumed to be water) = 1-0.87779 = 0.12221

I then entered these values into an on-line calculator and this is the result: 90.1% ABV

[YHB]

Sorry Lester, but I think you are wrong

You have 700ml of distillate
It weighs 572 grams
Its specific gravity = 572/700 = 0.817

To convert this you need a couple of tables from the US government, to find them Google
TTB table 6
(This converts specific gravity into proof percentage @ 60deg F)
and then
TTB table 7
(This gives a correction factor for ambient temperature )
From table 6 you see that a specific gravity of 0.817 = 189 % proof (94,5%ABV)
This is assuming you weighed your sample at 60 deg F to correct it to your temperature you need to go to table 7

If your weighed sample is an average of the total run then I think you are doing OK

I knew when I read your first post that this was going to have a happy ending.

CONGRATULATIONS

[Lester]

WOW!!!!

Yes I get this result consistently, no trouble at all. So far I have run about 90 liters of Birdwatcher's in several batches. I have even re-run my initial distillates as low wines just to get the feel of how to operate this still consistently.

Thank you Brian!!! You have helped me in a very big way and that is very much appreciated!!!

[Lester]

I used brass fittings and rather than pickle those ........

I took a union, cut it in half then drilled it right through with a 1/4" drill bit. The copper tube is inserted all the way into the union and soldered in place. Since the distillate doesn't touch the brass then I won't have to pickle those ever.

Just putting it here for the others to see.

[Lester]

I built a narrow band, expanded scale thermometer. It reads 1-deg C full scale and I can "zero" it anywhere from ambient to 100-deg C. It shows me the slight variations in temp as I distill. I find it more convenient to use than a digital thermometer. Here it is, trying it out for the first time.

The narrow band thermometer is on the right (100uA meter). The 2 knobs below the meter are coarse & fine adjustments for "zero". The switch allows me to select for narrow band (1-deg full scale) or regular band (100-deg C full scale).

I used 5 pieces of glass diodes in series to make the sensor. Medical glass capillary tubes and PTFE tape were used for insulation. The entire sensor assembly was housed in 5mm copper tubing.

I still use my digital thermometer to take the actual temperature if I need to.

I also tried using it on my pot still and it worked fine until the onset of the tails. The tails were much more conductive than alcohol and it shorted out my temp probe but it was fine again after a short dunk in foreshots.

Now to make a small box to house the components.

[YHB]

I have looked a few times at making my own temperature sensors / gauge but never found one that I fully understood and they always seemed more to build than I could buy them for, maybe I should have another look.

Now that you have the neutral/vodka sorted, what about the other options available?

If you open the slide valve up fully, what % ABV do you get? - I am thinking maybe reduced strength take off for flavour?

[Lester]

I have looked a few times at making my own temperature sensors / gauge but never found one that I fully understood and they always seemed more to build than I could buy them for, maybe I should have another look.

I chose to use diodes because they are way cheaper than thermocouples or RTDs and are readily available. I am utilizing the temperature coefficient of silicon diodes (approximately -2.1mv per deg C per diode) for temperature sensing. So 5 diodes in series gives me a sensor with -10.5mv per deg C temp coefficient.

Now that you have the neutral/vodka sorted, what about the other options available?

So far me and my buddies have been very happy with the neutrals and have not really considered what other flavors or washes to try. In my case I just take my vodka on the rocks and I am very pleased with the clean taste.

If you open the slide valve up fully, what % ABV do you get? - I am thinking maybe reduced strength take off for flavour?

With the valve fully open I see the temp rise by about 0.2 deg C (is this the equivalent of ~3% decrease in purity?) but that comes after more than half an hour of taking distillate continuously. Once the temp starts to rise I do close the VM valve and reflux some more and the temp comes back down after some time, but less output after that. At one time, early into the hearts, I measured my take off rate to be 750ml/15mins = 3 liters/hour. Now I think that seems a bit too fast with a 2" column. Once cooled down the ABV is always about 94%~95%.

I have only tried Birdwatcher's wash and I really hate the smell of the tails coming from this ferment. The more times I smell it the more I hate it! Neutral is good for me. Maybe later? (I do have some baby cereal wash but it's still fermenting)

[bowhunt76]

hope everything goin ok for you after the recent events in philippines....

[Lester]

Me and my family are fine, Bowhunt. Thank you!

[Lester]

I have reconfigured my still's head into a proportional-splitting valve configuration. This one is very responsive. I get product out in a few seconds after opening the slide valve, and I can get any RR I set it to.

That vent on the reflux condenser has been plumbed into the cooling tower's exhaust, for safety reasons. If I lose water (due to pump failure or any other reason) the escaping vapors won't end up in my propane burner below.

[YHB]

No No No - this cannot work - You need to put your Magic Tap back on the cooling tower!!!

Seriously, that is looking nice.

Well thought out and well made, I love it.

LM VM and Pot all in one.

My only concern is that the LM return line looks very small when you are in 100% reflux, you may get flooding in the condenser, watch out for it.

Have you done a production run yet? Is there any difference in the taste?

Brian

[Lester]

No No No - this cannot work - You need to put your Magic Tap back on the cooling tower!!!

Seriously, that is looking nice.

Well thought out and well made, I love it.

LM VM and Pot all in one.

My only concern is that the LM return line looks very small when you are in 100% reflux, you may get flooding in the condenser, watch out for it.

Have you done a production run yet? Is there any difference in the taste?

Brian

Thanks Brian! The spigot went back into bin.

So far no problem with the LM return. I used the same size tube (6mm) for my product take out and it seems adequate for my rate of vapor production. Will watch out for it though.

I will do a product run this weekend. Have finished doing cleaning runs just waiting for the low wines to finish with the baking soda treatment.

That vertical Liebig gets used on my pot still also, can be detached. This turned out to be a BAD idea. I used it to strip BW and it smelled of stinky tails right after. Had to steam it again with vinegar to get rid of the odor. Maybe I'll just make another Liebig for my pot still to keep the stink separate.

The horizontal arm is (inadvertently) tilted towards VM branch. I saw condensate pooling in there so I had to add a return line to the column (visible in the 2nd pic above). I should have deliberately tilted it towards the reflux branch.

The reflux condenser has a 3/4" hole for vapor entry making it on equal terms with the VM branch.

On initial trials I was still having some difficulty with the valve's response to RR settings. My 3/4" vertical Liebig reduces to 1/4" (blue arrow in the pic) and I figured that was the cause so I added a vent hole on the bottom of the Liebig (red arrow). The response was great after adding the vent. This vent hole will also get plumbed into the cooling tower for safety.

[Lester]

Sliding disk inside the horizontal tube was made from 3 pieces of old demonetized coins wrapped with PTFE tape. Nice sliding fit inside the 1-1/8" tube.

[YHB]

I am really sad about the tap.

I must be missing something.

Why have you reduced the Lieberg down to 6 mm?

[Lester]

I am really sad about the tap.

The cooling tower needed dispersed water for more effective cooling so I changed over to the showers. I have very course plastic screen material in there, somewhat similar to a column's packing. Before the shower was installed I noticed that steam was coming out from only half of the tower's mouth, now with the shower I get full coverage. The cooling water (about 20 liters) stays at the same temperature even after more than 4 hours running but I need to add about 2 liters to make up for evaporation.

Why have you reduced the Lieberg down to 6 mm?

I use a propane burner and I wanted my bottle to be some distance away from the flames, and at the same time I wanted this take off going to the bottle to be removable for storage or possibly for transport. Fittings for the 6mm tube were readily available so I went for that because I figured that 6mm was more than enough for 1 or 2 liters per hour take off rate. I can't have open funnels like some people use, this 6mm tube goes directly to the mouth of a 750ml wine bottle. I wanted more distance but I'm pressed for space so I will just add a blower to disperse any vapor near the bottle, plus a catch basin. Just trying to stay as safe as possible.

I'm still trying to come up with an alarm to signal for loss of cooling water. Perhaps some temp sensors mounted right on the condenser coil or Liebig would work. I'd be happy to have even just a steam whistle on those vent tubes. I'm super-paranoid and can't let the still out of my sight while it's running. The fire risk is too big for comfort.

[Lester]

I made a scale for the slide valve to tell me the relative position of the actual disc inside the tube. I just divided full open to full closed in 1/8 increments.

Since the scale is wide (50mm) it is easy to resolve in between the marks. The marks are helpful in making relative adjustments on the fly: If the temp goes up by 0.02-deg C (that’s the resolution of my analog thermometer) I increase RR by 1/8 valve opening. It takes about 30 seconds for the temp to go back down again.
The slide valve operates very smoothly, feather touch is all that’s needed to move it into position.

Actual Product Run:
Ran this new still on 8 liters of 42% low wines.
Equilibriated for 30 minutes then took out 100ml foreshots at about 1 drop per second.
Increased heat very slightly then took out 700ml of heads at 2 drops per second.
From moment of boiling to hearts took about 2.5 hours.

Into the hearts, I cranked up the heat to max (propane burner, about 1.2kw~1.3kkw equivalent) and proceeded to get product at 1:1 RR. Temp stayed steady to within 0.02-deg C. Whenever I saw a slight increase in temp I increased RR and the temp would go down again. The response of the proportional splitting valve is very predictable. I can vary the RR by small increments and I can see the effect on the temperature. At no time did I allow the temp to increase beyond 0.05-deg C. The sweet spot for my still is a little more than 1:1 RR. That’s with a 4-ft of SS scrubies for packing.

Total Take:
Foreshots: 100ml (1 drop per second take off rate)
Heads: 750ml (2 drops per second) I split the heads in 2 bottles
Hearts: 1.8 liters @ 95.5% ABV. This took me about 1.5 hours to collect so that’s roughly 1.4 liters per hour take off rate
Tails: I did not bother to collect them. I shut the still down when I saw the temp go up by 0.1-deg C. At this point even at 7:1 RR the temp would not go down anymore so I figured the tails must be coming and so it’s time to shut the still down.

Observations:
While equilibriating the thermometer’s needle would not hold steady, it would go up & down by about 0.1-deg C. But once the foreshots were out I got very steady temperatures to within 0.02-deg C, the needle on the meter does not move at all. (The thermo probe sits about 1” below the vapor splitting valve, the reflux return is below the thermo probe)

Taste Test:
The Hearts tasted very clean, no harshness at all. This is by far the best alcohol I have ever made and I am extremely pleased with this still’s performance. Even the late Heads tasted clean so I eventually added the 2nd bottle to the Hearts.

[YHB]

Lester,

Glad things are going well for you. I told you these splitting heads were good!.

It sounds like your cuts are about the same as mine, around 10% of the total as heads which I am more than happy with.

Did you take off the heads with the LM or VM?

If I use my still in pot mode for my "whisky's" I end up losing about 20% to heads. If I use the LM I only lose half of that, then switch to POT mode and get at least one more bottle of the flavoured portion than I would do if I took the heads using a conventional pot still. More of it and better quality, life just gets better.

Toodlepip

Brian

[Lester]

Lester,

Glad things are going well for you. I told you these splitting heads were good!.

It sounds like your cuts are about the same as mine, around 10% of the total as heads which I am more than happy with.

Did you take off the heads with the LM or VM?

If I use my still in pot mode for my "whisky's" I end up losing about 20% to heads. If I use the LM I only lose half of that, then switch to POT mode and get at least one more bottle of the flavoured portion than I would do if I took the heads using a conventional pot still. More of it and better quality, life just gets better.

Toodlepip

Brian

Yes The splitting heads are great! Absolutely predictable & repeatable results all the time.

I'm quite happy with removing 10% of heads now. I got to this point by collecting in 50ml portions and tasting each one to find where rough tastes disappears. The transition is quite abrupt: Rough on one jar and completely neutral on the next. I now take out 10% for heads every time I run the still, the tasting is still done though but for confirmation only.

I always use the LM for heads removal then switch over to VM for the hearts. I found that I can use 1:1 RR if I have low wines in the boiler but for 12% BW I need to go higher to about 3:1 RR. This is the sweet spot for my still, for each type of wash.

I also found out that I can compress the tails by doing 100% reflux for the late hearts, then getting it all in one continuous dump. I shut off once the vapor temp rises a little bit and by this time the wash is already at 98-deg C or more. I can "see" how the alcohol piles up in the column by watching the column temperatures at 1/3 and 2/3 height. It takes some time for the temp to come down but it does come down after some time. I just need to be patient and let chemistry take its course.

That's an interesting observation about the LM for whiskey heads removal. I will keep that in mind if I ever make some whiskey. Right now everybody here seems to be happy with getting neutrals that are truly neutral. We are all very pleased with the product.

Thanks Brian!

[Lester]

If I use my still in pot mode for my "whisky's" I end up losing about 20% to heads. If I use the LM I only lose half of that, then switch to POT mode and get at least one more bottle of the flavoured portion than I would do if I took the heads using a conventional pot still. More of it and better quality, life just gets better.

I'm getting more confident now & I would like to try something different. I have a rice bran + sugar wash fermenting at the moment.

Do I understand correctly, "For making whiskey with my VM/LM head":
1. Do not remove the packing in the column
2. Do 100% reflux for some time, about 30 minutes or more
3. Take out the foreshots & heads slowly, same as what is normally done when making vodka
4. Once heads are out, re-route 100% of the vapors to the VM port (no reflux) and collect the hearts
5. Switch to another container and collect some tails for blending later

I have no idea how this wash is going to taste like. Hopefully like Japanese Sake? Maybe not.