Jimbo's Electric Conversion

[Jimbo]

LOL AC, no worries, I was responding to Corene. I was trying to say I think they are the same thread type since the nut fits so well, spins right on. You guys made me curious so I poked around the internet and ...well.... as usual for the internet there's conflicting info. One place said its an NPS the pther an NPT and even Camco's website doesnt specify the thread type.

Since the nut is advertised NPT Im guessing Cack is correct and they are both NPT. But hell I dont know, it fits, thats all I know.

[humbledore]

No as one poster noted, NPT is a tapered thread, NPS is not tapered. So the threads are same spacing, just one is tapered. So it is my understanding plenty of Teflon tape seals well.

[corene1]

I am thinking that since the threaded section on the element is very short. and the threads are straight it will go into the tapered collar a bit before the threads start to interfere with each other. A long NPS thread would certainly lock the thread before the face and gasket seated. They use these straight threads a lot in the hydraulic shops. They are straight threads that have an O-ring seal so you can screw the fitting into the position you want then tighten the locknut down to set the o-ring. I will go talk with my friend at Ace Hydraulic tomorrow and see if they offer a Stainless 1 inch NPS collar of sorts and get back to everyone . Just thought of it. If you see a set of hydraulic gang switches they are straight thread with a lock ring so orientation is not a problem . Like the controls on a hydro-crane.

[S-Cackalacky]

Lot of people posting, so I don't know who to quote - I'M SO CONFUSED!

OK, to get things straight - the half coupling(s) Correne is referring to are NPT and the locknut Jimbo is using is NPT. The standard heating element is NPS. The heating element and either the coupling or the locknut thread to each other nicely, but plumbers tape is necessary to get a water tight seal, or as Goose would say, so im tole.

Just sayin',
S-C

[corene1]

LOL AC, no worries, I was responding to Corene. I was trying to say I think they are the same thread type since the nut fits so well, spins right on. You guys made me curious so I poked around the internet and ...well.... as usual for the internet there's conflicting info. One place said its an NPS the pther an NPT and even Camco's website doesnt specify the thread type.

Since the nut is advertised NPT Im guessing Cack is correct and they are both NPT. But hell I dont know, it fits, thats all I know.

It won't be a problem jimbo. The threads are both 1 inch 11 1/2 thread on NPT and NPS. the starting dimension for both are also the same. It is just a case of the NPS male thread being straight and the NPT male thread tapering down to a smaller dimension. Opposite on collars. Npt Collars are smaller on the bottom and NPS collars are the same size all the way through.Beings that the lock nut is short and NPT also it hasn't started to taper yet so it will screw all the way down the NPS thread on the element, Conversely. running a long NPS male thread into a Long tapered NPT collar will cause interference at a certain depth. I am betting that since the heater element has very short threads that it won't be a problem. if it is I do have a tap.
There are lots of ways to remedy the situation as there is not much in the way of pressure to seal against, I just thought it would be cool looking to have a nice machined collar on the new pot. I know that they must be available as the water heater I took the 1500 watt element out of ahs a collar on it, But it certainly isn't a big deal. If you want the male nps thread to go deeper into a NPT collar just tap it a little deeper and it will gain a couple of turns of thread depth. If you don't want to do that double up the gasket and make it thicker. Lots of remedies.

[acfixer69]

I was making my thread taper point so that a newb reading would know that after having a coupling on the keg and the element doesn't seat does a whweer did I f up

AC

[Jimbo]

were you also suggesting to Corene to forget about seating up against a gasket, and just use teflon tape and thread it in tight? Or did I read too much into that?

So maybe no matter if 150 lb or 3000 lb coupling?

[Jimbo]

I bought a 1/2" coupling to solder into my still for a drain. Was gonna use same approach as a coupling and element. Any suggestions? Just get a tight fit, and solder it up, then teflon tape the threads to get a seal, yes?

[acfixer69]

Read to much. I dont like the teflon solution. I use the coupling and tap it after is is on. That is why I point it out.

AC

[acfixer69]

I bought a 1/2" coupling to solder into my still for a drain. Was gonna use same approach as a coupling and element. Any suggestions? Just get a tight fit, and solder it up, then teflon tape the threads to get a seal, yes?

Ofcourse Pipe to pipe is the same pipe to the element is different.

If I offended any one so be it the THREADS are different and I know most folks don't Know that.

AC

[corene1]

I bought a 1/2" coupling to solder into my still for a drain. Was gonna use same approach as a coupling and element. Any suggestions? Just get a tight fit, and solder it up, then teflon tape the threads to get a seal, yes?

If you go buy a 1/2 pipe collar it will accept a standard pipe plug . there are in actuality very few things that come with a straight pipe thread. Even at that , Teflon tape will seal them at the pressures we are working with.

[corene1]

Here is a picture of the same size thread one being NPT the other NPS they have the same thread count and the same pitch on the threads . one is tapered one is straight that is the only difference. The collars do the same thing. one is straight bored and one is taper bored. The taper is VERY slight but enough to create a little bit of interference when the two are used with each other. You will have to look close at the picture to see the taper , it is that slight.

fit.jpg (5.48 KiB) Viewed 4990 times

The tapered thread is on the left.

[Jimbo]

Here's a handy power chart for the Camco 5500W element on 240V.

[Jimbo]

This ones maybe more handy...

[Jimbo]

Bought a couple of these to mount in the box. With the cheat sheet taped next to it.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/370412360384" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

$6.99 and free shipping from China.

[Halfbaked]

Are you going to use a 12 volt power supply off a computer?

[Jimbo]

I already have a 12V wall wart supply in there powering the fan. Its zip tied inside the box bottom right in the 2nd picture.

[humbledore]

Would love to understand which wires go to those measuring terminals... Do you seriously put up to 240v through the display?

[Jimbo]

sure its just monitoring leads they don't carry any current so they can be very thin

[marshrunner757]

How long did it take the SCR to come in?

[S-Cackalacky]

Bellybuster has a nice write up on soldering a half coupling into a keg. There's also a Youtube link down near the end of the 1st page of posts. Here tis - http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... =2&t=36347 .

S-C

[corene1]

Thanks for the chart I already saved and copied it. I was thinking today at work about putting a voltmeter and amp meter with the control box and I come home and there it is. You are doing all the footwork for us.
I also went down to the specialty metal supply that we get our material from and talked to him about the availability of 1 inch NPS stainless 1/2 collars . they are available but the demand is so small that they are too expensive so the easiest way will be to buy standard 1/2 collars and run a NPS tap through them. I did that to mine today and it fit perfect. If you ever need some let me know I will make some and send them out. A good 1 inch NPS tap is about $45 dollars at our supplier so it would be too much for a one time use for most but I already have one and the facility to do the work and would be glad to help out.
The BEST PART is they have remodeled and are now carrying a full line of Stainless tri clamp and ferrule assemblies and the gaskets also. I was in heaven when a saw whole shelf dedicated to them, and they are cheap to boot. A 4 inch stainless tri clamp for $11.99 , 2 inch version $9.99 I am getting goose bumps thinking about all the modular sections I can build.

[Jimbo]

How long did it take the SCR to come in?

Pretty quick. Maybe 2 weeks or less

[F6Hawk]

This might help others with different size elements...

For your power input decision, it depends on whether you incorporate a volt meter as Jumbo has, or an ammeter as others have done. You also have to know the resistance of the element, R, which is given by R = V^2 / P (watts). So a 5500 watt element at 240v has resistance of R= 10.473 ohms. A 4000w element at 240v has an R of 14.4 ohms. You have to know this resistance to calculate both amps and watts as voltage changes, or watts and voltage as amperage changes (depending on which meter you buy). Of course, it all becomes moxnix because you don't really care that a voltage setting of 148v equals XXX watts, you only care that 148v on your meter gives you the stream you desire.

So given the 5500w element has a R of 10.437, you can calculate different amps, wattages, and voltages:

P = V^2 / R, so 220v gives us 4621 watts, and to get 4000 watts, we'd need to push 204.7v [V = sqrt(P X R)]


If you have a 4000w element, using 14.4 ohms as your "constant", you'd need 240v for 4000w (duh!), and 1697.v for 2000w.

This for those of you who don't have a chart for your element, and if you care. One reason I can see someone wanting to know is if they wanted to determine the cost of a run.

[F6Hawk]

I don't have my element and nipple handy, but is the NPT thing really an issue? I'd imagine that the short nipple combined with the shallow threads on the element would cause the element to bottom out against the gasket before the threads came close to locking up...

[Jimbo]

I went with the voltmeter because it just connects easily with 2 monitor lines. An ammeter needs a shunt or a current transformer. More crap to mount in the box.

[marshrunner757]

How long did it take the SCR to come in?

Pretty quick. Maybe 2 weeks or less

Cool. Just ordered one!

[corene1]

This might help others with different size elements...

For your power input decision, it depends on whether you incorporate a volt meter as Jumbo has, or an ammeter as others have done. You also have to know the resistance of the element, R, which is given by R = V^2 / P (watts). So a 5500 watt element at 240v has resistance of R= 10.473 ohms. A 4000w element at 240v has an R of 14.4 ohms. You have to know this resistance to calculate both amps and watts as voltage changes, or watts and voltage as amperage changes (depending on which meter you buy). Of course, it all becomes moxnix because you don't really care that a voltage setting of 148v equals XXX watts, you only care that 148v on your meter gives you the stream you desire.

So given the 5500w element has a R of 10.437, you can calculate different amps, wattages, and voltages:

P = V^2 / R, so 220v gives us 4621 watts, and to get 4000 watts, we'd need to push 204.7v [V = sqrt(P X R)]


If you have a 4000w element, using 14.4 ohms as your "constant", you'd need 240v for 4000w (duh!), and 1697.v for 2000w.

This for those of you who don't have a chart for your element, and if you care. One reason I can see someone wanting to know is if they wanted to determine the cost of a run.

I took a foreign language class once, it looked about the same as the formulas you got there.
so R=V^2/P Meaning R is resistance V is voltage P is watts What does the symbol ^ mean in the equation. I am not a math person but am a good student.

[F6Hawk]

V^2 means voltage squared. (V^3 would mean voltage cubed) It's how you show exponents in web-speak, sorry if it was cornfusing.

P = power, measured in watts. I is used for current, measured in Amps.

[Jimbo]

Its simple 'Ohms Law' stuff Corene. Do a google on it and youll be an expert in 20 minutes. Once you know a couple basic equations you can make the others by substituion.

Or just use this chart...

If you know Excel you can plug these equations in to make tables, charts, graphs whatever you need. If you dont want to mess with it or dont have Excel and need something just let me know, always happy to help where I can.