Propionic acid

[2goose]

My bag of cracked corn from Tractor Supply contains propionic acid. Can this corn be used for mash or will the addition kill the yeast ?

[toast860]

not sure which one it is but I get my corn from there all the time. cracked and whole. if your worried about it then boil it. I think it will get rid of it . not sure but worth a try.

[S-Cackalacky]

I've never heard of it being in cracked corn. Usually you find it in feed grade molasses. Anyway, it might be OK - by the time you add sugar (sugarhead?) and water, it might be diluted enough that it won't matter much. You might also give it a rinse with cool tap water before adding it to your wash.

S-C

[2goose]

Ingredient list says that it is a presevative

[2goose]

Ingredient list says that it is a preservative. Internet research says its edible, but still wonder if it will kill the yeast. If y'all think it's OK I plan to use it to make cooked mash

[Husker]

It kills yeast, BUT may not fully kill them in lower does.

I have not seen it in corn either (sweat feed, possibly). It is usually something added to feed grade molasses, and it is added to keep it from fermenting or otherwise spoiling. It 'can' be converted to a salt with addition (proper amounts) of a base, and then heat (boiling). The base and acid will combine into a salt, and then crystals will fall out of solution when cooled. When done to molasses, you end up with a 'gravel' like stuff in the bottom of your boil pot. It is the acid converted into a salt, and removed. You can never get 100% free of the acid, but you can reduce it a great deal.

The same method would likely work for this corn. It may simply be that this is listed, because there is some feed grade molasses in there, that has this adjunct. Hard to say. But simply cracked corn, I am kind of surprised to hear of acid being added.

H.

[Jimbo]

Doesnt look good. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18683540" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

im wondering if this is causing my recent troubles with cracked corn and feed grade wheat. Never had issue getting either of these to start up. Doing everythign the same and nothing is fermenting anymore, except my beer and some wheat flour mash I made last week. no problems there. Its starting to piss me off. Lots of buckets recently dumped in teh garden.

Im thinking, speculating, they might bump up the preservative content in feed to keep it from molding during damp winter months?

[LWTCS]

A reasonable assertion Jimbo.

[Jimbo]

A reasonable assertion Jimbo.

Crap. If thats the case, what in hell do I do with these bags of wheat and cracked corn. The wheat is whole grain, maybe i can rinse it in a large screen bag, then lay it out to dry with a space heater under it, but the cracked corn? This all sounds like a pain in the ass. I think the squirrels around here are gonna be well fed this winter while I search out some new experiments. Millet Margaritas? Quinoa Colada's? lol. This stuff looks interesting http://www.kingarthurflour.com/shop/ite ... lour-blend" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[2goose]

Guess my chickens will continue to enjoy it

[corene1]

A reasonable assertion Jimbo.

Crap. If thats the case, what in hell do I do with these bags of wheat and cracked corn. The wheat is whole grain, maybe i can rinse it in a large screen bag, then lay it out to dry with a space heater under it, but the cracked corn? This all sounds like a pain in the ass. I think the squirrels around here are gonna be well fed this winter while I search out some new experiments. Millet Margaritas? Quinoa Colada's? lol. This stuff looks interesting http://www.kingarthurflour.com/shop/ite ... lour-blend" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Looks like malting wheat is in your future! If you are going to soak and dry it , may as well do the malting also! Now I have got to go check my grains . Just bought a couple of bags this weekend.

[corene1]

My bag of oats does have propionic acid in it while the others do not. I did an AG mash this weekend with 2 types of barley , wheat and oats, the oats being 25% of the grain bill, as of this evening it is fermenting nicely. I will keep and eye on it and post the results when it is finished.

[Jimbo]

Looks like malting wheat is in your future! If you are going to soak and dry it , may as well do the malting also!

OK. I rinsed off and soaked a quart of wheat overnight, then put it in a baking tin on a moistened towel covered with a clear plastic snap on dome lid. Gonna try to get some wheat grass growing and make some healthy smoothies and shit. LOL

If that works Ill malt the whole bag and make a wet malt hooch. I do believe malted grain tastes better than unmalted. So yes, why not malt it eh, thanks for the push.

[2goose]

So, What is the verdict? Yea or nay on the cracked corn scratch feed with the acid.? Today I found, at Southern States, cracked corn without the propionic acid.

[Jimbo]

I hesitate to advise on this one anymore 2goose. I been through many bags of cracked corn with no issue. Now I cant get the damn shit to ferment. To the point Im looking to switch to large bags of corn meal or grits for my bourbons, at least until next summer when I might give it another shot (based on the hypothesis in this thread about preservatives and anti-fungals).

[S-Cackalacky]

If they're putting it on the cracked corn, I would think it would just be applied to the surface - that is, if they did some kind of soaking, it would be a pain in the ass for them to re-dry it before shipping. Assuming that it's only on the surface, I believe a good quick rinse would get rid of most of it. I would just put whatever amount I needed for a recipe into a bucket, add a good bit of clean cool water, agitate it a bit, drain it and use it. No need to dry it out if you're gonna use it right away. I'm sure some small amount would be left behind, but probably not enough to worry about.

S-C

[Jimbo]

Thats a good point SC. Ill try that with a bag. I was thinking about rinsing and drying the wheat, cause it needs to be milled. But the corn is done cracked, so rinse off, then pour boiling water on! Yes, thank you!

[acfixer69]

If they're putting it on the cracked corn, I would think it would just be applied to the surface - that is, if they did some kind of soaking, it would be a pain in the ass for them to re-dry it before shipping. Assuming that it's only on the surface, I believe a good quick rinse would get rid of most of it. I would just put whatever amount I needed for a recipe into a bucket, add a good bit of clean cool water, agitate it a bit, drain it and use it. No need to dry it out if you're gonna use it right away. I'm sure some small amount would be left behind, but probably not enough to worry about.

S-C

Was thinking as Jimbo was posting an thought that the yeast killing chemicals the grain processors have in there shop the gobbermint don't decide to add them to foil our efforts.

AC

[S-Cackalacky]

Thats a good point SC. Ill try that with a bag. I was thinking about rinsing and drying the wheat, cause it needs to be milled. But the corn is done cracked, so rinse off, then pour boiling water on! Yes, thank you!

I hadn't really thought about grinding. I guess that would be problematic if it were wet - or, would it? I don't know - never milled anything before.

S-C

[Bohunk]

Guys, I looked at a bag of cracked corn this morning at the local farm store and I didn't see anything about propionic acid on the label. Actually all it said was the protein content. Where on the bag are you seeing propionic acid. Maybe the corn in my store is OK. Husker you look at Bomgaards ???

The Ole Bohunk

[cob]

If they're putting it on the cracked corn, I would think it would just be applied to the surface - that is, if they did some kind of soaking, it would be a pain in the ass for them to re-dry it before shipping. Assuming that it's only on the surface, I believe a good quick rinse would get rid of most of it. I would just put whatever amount I needed for a recipe into a bucket, add a good bit of clean cool water, agitate it a bit, drain it and use it. No need to dry it out if you're gonna use it right away. I'm sure some small amount would be left behind, but probably not enough to worry about.S-C

S-C this article supports rinse and use. under properties "miscible with water" . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propionic_acid" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[LWTCS]

Something wrong with the universe if you fellers can't get unmolested corn in your neck of the woods

Guys, I looked at a bag of cracked corn this morning at the local farm store and I didn't see anything about propionic acid on the label. Actually all it said was the protein content. Where on the bag are you seeing propionic acid. Maybe the corn in my store is OK. Husker you look at Bomgaards ???

The Ole Bohunk

[Husker]

Something wrong with the universe if you fellers can't get unmolested corn in your neck of the woods

Guys, I looked at a bag of cracked corn this morning at the local farm store and I didn't see anything about propionic acid on the label. Actually all it said was the protein content. Where on the bag are you seeing propionic acid. Maybe the corn in my store is OK. Husker you look at Bomgaards ???

The Ole Bohunk

I fully agree L, I have never seen it (corn with preservatives), and am kinda shocked. BUT if this is bought from somewhere 1000's of miles from corn country, shipped in, warehoused a year or so, then they may want to make sure it stays 'fresher'. But I have never heard of it. Hell, the best place to get cracked corn is direct from the farmer. They usually have a screen on the bottom of their augers, and you can scoop all you want for free. I have a couple farmers I can get half a pickup load, leave them a gallon or 2 of the GOOD stuff, and they are more than friendly enough to let me do their cleanup chores. Now, there is much more in there than just cracked corn (lot of cob chunks, pieces of stalk, etc). But the corn is heavy. Shake it some, and the corn will be in the bottom of the container, the top is chaff. I have not gotten corn like that in a couple years, but I know when I do, just what it is..

[Bohunk]

Well, a little more research showed me this. At our Tractor Supply store, their cracked corn lists propionic acid clearly on the label, and at our Bomgaad Store their cracked corn doesn't list it. We are in the heart of corn country, WTF. Anyway I guess one just has to look at the label, and shop around, I would prefer to have my corn "unmolested". That phrase came from Larry.

The Ole Bohunk

[S-Cackalacky]

TSC grain is pre-bagged by a wholesaler (i.e., Producers Pride), so it's understandable that it might have some kind of preservative in it. There are a lot of other grain suppliers in my area - SS (Southern States) in particular. One of the larger SS stores bags their own, so I'm assuming they buy from local farmers. I think I'll be shopping for cracked corn at SS.

S-C

[2goose]

I saw it on a bag of cracked corn from Tractor Supply. Yesterday I checked cracked corn at Southern States Co-op. Ingredient list said "cracked corn".

[Jimbo]

Im surrounded by millions of acres of corn. I buy my corn from an independent farm feed store. The corn comes from a local coop and says 'CORN' on the bag and 'Cracked Corn' on the label, with protein content listed. Im not convinced that doesnt mean then dont put some harmless anti fungal on there for the cold damp winter months. Its animal feed, not sure the regulations on that, and propionic acid and other anti fungals are benign to mammals. Do they really need to list it?

All I know is this stuff fired up and fermented fine all summer. Now it dont. Similar with the whole wheat feed. Last batch of 100% wheat wouldnt start. I took some of the wheat, rinsed it well and put it ina tray to germinate. Its growing like crazy. Day 3 and the rootlets are as long as the wheat berry. Im gonna try rinsing some corn and doing another run. The wheat Im gonna rinse and germinate the whole bag and do a malt whiskey. Malted grain tastes better than raw grain anyway, IMO. Wish me luck.

[corene1]

Im surrounded by millions of acres of corn. I buy my corn from an independent farm feed store. The corn comes from a local coop and says 'CORN' on the bag and 'Cracked Corn' on the label, with protein content listed. Im not convinced that doesnt mean then dont put some harmless anti fungal on there for the cold damp winter months. Its animal feed, not sure the regulations on that, and propionic acid and other anti fungals are benign to mammals. Do they really need to list it?

All I know is this stuff fired up and fermented fine all summer. Now it dont. Similar with the whole wheat feed. Last batch of 100% wheat wouldnt start. I took some of the wheat, rinsed it well and put it ina tray to germinate. Its growing like crazy. Day 3 and the rootlets are as long as the wheat berry. Im gonna try rinsing some corn and doing another run. The wheat Im gonna rinse and germinate the whole bag and do a malt whiskey. Malted grain tastes better than raw grain anyway, IMO. Wish me luck.

I'm rootin' for ya! My mash is doing fine but the grain with the propionic acid was only 25% of the grain bill. I will check the gravity when it is done and see if it completed or if it shut down early. None of the other grain had any chemical on it. Can you go back on your notes and see if you are doing anything at all different? Or is it definitely the new batch of grain.

[Jimbo]

Can you go back on your notes and see if you are doing anything at all different? Or is it definitely the new batch of grain.

I looked at my notes and gave this some thought. its hard to say with certainty as there's so many variables that could change, even unintentionally. but as a rule I keep things very simple, no nutrients or excessive pH manipulations, and I dont change anything unless Im trying to fix something, So no i dont believe anythign changed. Same water, aerated the mash, same yeast, same recipe.

[corene1]

Can you go back on your notes and see if you are doing anything at all different? Or is it definitely the new batch of grain.

I looked at my notes and gave this some thought. its hard to say with certainty as there's so many variables that could change, even unintentionally. but as a rule I keep things very simple, no nutrients or excessive pH manipulations, and I dont change anything unless Im trying to fix something, So no i dont believe anythign changed. Same water, aerated the mash, same yeast, same recipe.

I was thinking about this today at work. How is your yeast? I had a problem about a month ago with the distillers yeast I bought. It worked well for a month or so then nothing would start so I made a starter with the mash and the yeast I was using. Come to find out the yeast had gone south in 2 months so I bought some new basic Red Star baking yeast and made a starter with the same mash and it took off like crazy. I know you are a beer brewer so you are methodical about your yeast but it was just a thought.