Jimbo's easy 1/2barrel Wheated Bourbon and Gumballhead

[Jimbo]

I dunno baked. Prolly Burton because it throws more fruity esters. But it doesnt go as dry either so there's a little sacrifice in yield. US05 is nice, clean and goes really dry, maybe brings forward more of the grain flavors and sweetness from the corn. Lately Ive been using WLP041 Pacific Ale yeast. Its a yeast from some Pacific Northwest breweries, mainly just because its what Ive been using in my IPA's lately so i have tons of it. It makes a nice brew and a nice whiskey. I ferment between 66-70, low and slow. Natural esters from the yeast profile are great. Congeners from pissed off yeast not so much. My mashes are 6-8% and fermented slow on nothing but the grain mash and about 10% backset with the bourbons to help with the pH of corn based recipes. (no nutrients, vitamins or other anything else). I run them after 7 days.

[Halfbaked]

You got 7 fifths per 25 lbs of grain. That is a little higher than you would normally get. The average would be 6 or just a tad more, correct? I would assume that you used a US 04 or 05 in the original reciept? I know it might be a little hard to judge but how much less would you say the Burton yield would be in ozs? I have to agree, if I would have a choise between fruity grain flavor or a clean grain flavor I would pick the fruity grain flavor also. Am I assuming right that the fruitiness will more than likely come in day 4-7? I would have to buy a yeast because I dont' make beer. Is there a cost diff in the yeasts or pretty comparable? Availability at the LBH would be an issue also.

[Jimbo]

You got 7 fifths per 25 lbs of grain. That is a little higher than you would normally get. The average would be 6 or just a tad more, correct? I would assume that you used a US 04 or 05 in the original reciept? I know it might be a little hard to judge but how much less would you say the Burton yield would be in ozs? I have to agree, if I would have a choise between fruity grain flavor or a clean grain flavor I would pick the fruity grain flavor also. Am I assuming right that the fruitiness will more than likely come in day 4-7? I would have to buy a yeast because I dont' make beer. Is there a cost diff in the yeasts or pretty comparable? Availability at the LBH would be an issue also.

Im usually between 3.5 and 4 lbs grain per finished 80 proof fifth after all is said and done, cuts etc.

Packet yeast (US-05, 04, Notty etc) is $1-$2 per packet for 5gal. Liquid yeast is $6-$7 per vial/packet for 5g. Much more variety with the vials or smackpaks but Im not convinced the quality is any better. US-05 makes a damn fine beer, every bit as good as any clean fermenting American fancy yeast like White Labs WLP001 or Wyeast 1056. English strains are known to be estery, US-04 is English, as is Burton and a multitude of other 'boutique' yeasts in vials and paks. It takes some experimentation with your own process to find what you like. Experiment by making something exactly the same way twice and change only 1 variable, like yeast, and see the outcome. Fun stuff. Its easier said than done tho, there's a load of variables to hold steady - malt brand and age, mash temp, backset source and amount, corn grind, grain bill recipe, ferment temp, ferment time, distillation speed, bla bla bla My pseudo- scientific experiments often take a weird turn for mysterious unknown reasons.

Folks here have good luck with distillers yeast or bakers too. My preference has always been beer yeasts for whiskey, Bakers for Rum, and wine yeast for cider, but thats just me. Ive also used beer yeast for cider and liked the result too. It made some nice brandy.

[Halfbaked]

I know yeast is no big deal for you because of beer but it is for others if using a vial. You said that gotta run in 7 days and can't use trub for yeast because malted is not sanatised. Would it have any negative effect if after you are finished mashing (before yeast) put the heat back under it and and go to 160-170 to sanitize and use trub after to save it as a starter.

[Jimbo]

sure you could do that. but boiling a pot of goo (fermenting on the grain) makes for a sore arm!

Be easier to do an all malt, sparge it, bring the wort up to temp. Hard to do with corn based stuff tho.

[Halfbaked]

I was thinking of using a drill and paint mixer. So you are saying mash your corn like normal and do a separate malt mash and after fully converted (time wise) take it to 170 and then dump in the corn goo and it be all good to keep trub from there?

[Jimbo]

No I was saying do a single malt (no corn). Or just buy 1 packet per 5 gallons and be done with it. US-05 is cheap.

[Jimbo]

The thing you lose bringing your mash up to temp, is teh enzymes working on teh big chunks of corn all week while its fermenting. Bring it up past 170 to pasteurize it and you denature alpha and beta amylase. Them babies keep chompin on the grains during ferment.

[Black Eye]

For the money you can get yeast for Id say it's not worth trying to do the extra work of pasteurizing your mash to reclaim yeast.

Half baked... Definitely try that paint mixer. I picked on up for 5 or 6 bucks and I love it. Makes easy work of stiring corn mash. It even reached the bottom of my 15 gallon fermenting bucket. Works good for adding oxygen in as well. Put the drill on high and stir the shit out of it all.

I also opened the wallet to get that mop bucket with the mop ringer. Made nice work outta squeezing grains in conjunction with the paint straining bags.

Definitely been busy the last few weeks working on booze projects.

[Halfbaked]

I got a couple of those big paint stirrers and a good milwalkee drill with a handle on it. It will break your arm if you don't watch it. I was gonna use a paddle but na that's to much work. I got a drywall mud mixer also. I got mop buckets and ringers. Its def not worth it if you can get packets of what you want. Never used a vial but would consider if I could harvest and liked and it was expensive.

[Jimbo]

I was chattin with Woodshed on here the other day about efficiencies and it got me playing with the calculator some. Here's how the numbers work out, and hopefully some calculations you can use to your own batches of hooch, AG or sugarheads. Turns out my efficiency, yield to 'typical' ppg numbers from Palmers chart is 54%. I 'keep' 54% after cuts of the 85% efficiency number of the grains I use.

PPG is points per pound per gallon. For example 2 row barley 'typical (85%) PPG is 31. So 1 pound in 1 gallon of water will make 1.031 SG

Some other PPG's (typical yield) we use around here. Sugar 46, Wheat 30, Corn 33. http://homedistiller.org/grain/yield/typical" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

This bourbon recipe works out like this then....

17 lbs corn x 33 = 561
3 lbs 2 row x 31 = 93
5 lbs wheat x 30 = 150
---------------------------------
Total points = 804

If you ferment out to 1.000 it takes 773 points to make a proof gallon. (From the alc calculator at the parent site.)

My 'keeper yield' from these 804 points of grain was 4 quarts at 56%. So the math looks like this....

804/773 = 1.04 proof gallon. 1.04/0.56 (my keep proof) = 1.86 gllons. But I only got 1 gallon. So, 1/1.86 = 54%

Note some of that is due to not getting full 33 points out of the lumpy cracked corn. And some is due to cuts and losses in the process. My yield on 100% malt is higher. Ill do the calcucation for that one over in that recipe. Note also, this is not taking into account running feints in the spirit run. If/when you add feints the yield increases dramatically. Here I use the feints in the gumballhead that follows to help the flavors of that sugarhead

I hope that didnt bore you shitless. Gotta be some nerds in the clan right?

Cheers.

[Black Eye]

You know that didn't bore me. I put my recipe in a calculator that I use. I worked with 2 pounds of grain per gallon. 17 lbs corn and 5 lbs 2 row. If I recall it came out to be 1.068ish and should finish around 1.018 which is around 6.5-6.75%

I've yet to get around to checking my yield after distillation. That's something I should get around to doing but I don't really like focussing on percentages. I'm going to have to read through your math again and compare. Interesting work though I always find the math behind the work interesting.

[Squattingcoyote]

Jimbo, just wanted to say I've been reading and re-reading this thread for two months while floating around offshore and am about to go CRAZY. Can't wait to get home and give it a go. Been having good luck previously with AG but just to reiterate what others have said, it's not all smoke and mirrors they way you word it.
One question:
How's the water you use? (City tap, well water, distilled etc....)
Thanks a ton for the great recipe and to all you others posting the helpful info.

[Jimbo]

Thanks SquattingCoyote, appreciate that.

My water isint the greatest. Its well water, with iron. But it first goes through a softener that Im relentless about keeping in top order, including citric acid flushes. The water I brew beer and spirits with then goes through a Level 4 0.5 micron filter. FInally, I wont brew unless the resin has been rinsed. Meaning, after a backflush in the middle of the night, the resin will have residual salt on it from the brine tank. After someone takes a shower the salt is rinsed off the resin. I wont brew first thing in the morning until someone has taken a shower or wifes done some laundry or whatever.

My beer and hooch tastes fine. Ive brewed with RO water and store bought water, to compare. Beer didnt taste any different so I think my approach above is fine. Altho many will say never brew with softened water.

Iron and salt inhibits fermentation. My fermentations go off without hitch, and my drinks taste fine, so I dont worry about it, but I stay diligent with the method above.

[Catch 22]

I just finished up a recipe similar to this, but instead I used 3/4 malted red wheat & 1/4 malted rye in a 10 gallon batch and finished the rest off with a 7 gallon gumball run. I was a little nerves at first, but since I have completed UJSM,SW and apple brandy, I figured I was ready to take the next step. I must say for my 1st AG it came out rather well. It took almost two weeks to ferment out the AG and I only could get it to 1.010, so I ran with what I had and made my cuts and ended up with a gallon of likker, I pitched the fores and the first quart of heads and kept the rest from 130% down to 70% and ran the tails to 30%, its now sitting on my charcoaled oak. For the gumball took the backset (2gal) the collected heads and tails (3/4gal) and 4.5 gals of the low wine and ran that real slow and put that on oak as well. Both came out real well, but I am really likin the AG, so will hide that in a safe place and start drinking the Gumball in a few months when that ages a bit. Thanks for the recipe

[Mr Shine]

I finally got around to doing this recipe and I love it!

First off, steep cooking the corn is the way to go. I can't believe how easy it is, especially considering how hard everyone makes cooking corn for a mash to be. To be honest, I'd been a little scared away from making anything AG with corn for fear of messing it up and/or scorching it or getting stuck with a gloppy mess. But with this method of gelatinizing the corn, it's pretty much idiot proof, even for me (a big plus).

Anyway, I only did a half recipe and have only stripped it as of yet. I'm going to make some more after Christmas, after I'm able to run my gumballhead piggyback, which is ready now and clearing in some buckets out in the cold. The piggyback went down to 0.99 in less than 4 days, by the way.

I'll report back when I've done this recipe again and stripped it and then made a spirit run of the two mashes. I'm really looking forward to that. I think this is going to be something special. I even took a couple of sips of the low wines coming off in the stripping run and it tasted nice.

Thank Jimbo for this recipe. Hopefully, we'll see this in the tried and true section soon. It has my vote (not that it's worth anything).

[Halfbaked]

We need an all grain in the tried and true and this be great.

[jarheadshiner]

Hey Jimbo. Love your recipes and methods. Been doing nothing but sugarheads for the last year and a half. Happy with my product but I know it can be better. On the first AG I obviously won't have any backset available so what would you suggest for a pH adjustment. Citric acid? Would I be ahead to do a small batch of say 5 gallons to produce enough backset for a larger batch? What about using backset from a sweet feed for the small batch? A few options. What would you recommend to get going?

[Jimbo]

Hey jarhead, thanks man. pH wants to be 5.2 to 5.6. Lots of ways to do that. The ones you suggested will work fine. 2 tsp of gypsum per 5g helps lower pH and gives yeast calcium they want. pH 5.2 stabilizer, lactic acid, citric acid, etc etc. Everything mentioned can be found at the brewshop. Cheers.

[Mr Shine]

I always wondered about using backset from UJ or sweet feed. Figured there's hardly any alcohol in there in total, which means hardly any alcohol made from nasty sugar so it's got to be OK for using in an AG mash, right?

I do it, but wonder if I'm just ruining things. TBH, I can't really tell the difference between AG backset used in and sugarhead backset.

Thoughts on this Jimbo?

[Jimbo]

I dunno, backset definitely adds flavor. Its use is practically compulsory in Rums for that reason. So whatever flavors you have in your sugarhead, including any sugar based ester flavors that are hanging out, will come over into your AG whiskey.

short answer: I wouldnt

[Mr Shine]

Thanks Jimbo. Makes sense.

Didn't even think of the other flavors and esters from the sugarhead. Just thought most of the alcohol made from sugar was stripped away, so it would be OK.

But like I said, I haven't really noticed the difference in the few times I've done it (mostly it's the other way around, which is good).

Thanks again.

[jarheadshiner]

Hey jarhead, thanks man. pH wants to be 5.2 to 5.6. Lots of ways to do that. The ones you suggested will work fine. 2 tsp of gypsum per 5g helps lower pH and gives yeast calcium they want. pH 5.2 stabilizer, lactic acid, citric acid, etc etc. Everything mentioned can be found at the brewshop. Cheers.

Closest brew shop is about 2 hours from me so I usually just order everything online. I have never checked the pH of my ferments but like I said I only do sugar heads. I figure if I'm gonna go the all grain route I might wanna start checking. More work and a helluva lot more money if you get into some of the more expensive malts so hurts a lot more if ya screw it up. I read your response to Mr Shine about the backset so I won't go that route. I have gypsum and citric acid on hand so I'll do up a small batch to produce some backset for a larger batch. Thanks for the response.

[Ferguson]

Jimbo, your method is so much easier then the homebrew techniques i've been trying to use. I'm giving it a go tomorrow... Thanks!
But when i make rum, ive been adding a bit of boiled starchy potato water to the mash to add a smooth mouthfeel. I've done a side by side taste and the difference is amazing. Have you ever tried this in a whiskey?

[Jimbo]

I have not, but I'll try it. Thanks for the tip. Anything special you do or just boil potatoes and use the water?

[Ferguson]

One big tater, i dice it up, put it in a pot with about 3 cups of water, boil for a while, then throw away the potato and put the water in the mash before fermentation. Gives the distillate a rich silky texture. At least in rum anyway.

[jarheadshiner]

One big tater, i dice it up, put it in a pot with about 3 cups of water, boil for a while, then throw away the potato and put the water in the mash before fermentation. Gives the distillate a rich silky texture. At least in rum anyway.

I think I would mash the tater with a little milk and butter and eat it! Mmm Mmm mashed taters. Interesting idea. Does this extra starch water cause any puking problems? I realize it's a relatively small amount but just wondering.

[Jimbo]

One big tater, i dice it up, put it in a pot with about 3 cups of water, boil for a while, then throw away the potato and put the water in the mash before fermentation. Gives the distillate a rich silky texture. At least in rum anyway.

I think I would mash the tater with a little milk and butter and eat it! Mmm Mmm mashed taters.

LOL, I was thinking the same thing. Little taters for me and tater water for me hooch.

[Tater]

We need an all grain in the tried and true and this be great.

Any one else whose tried this wanna second ?

[Windy City]

I would second that
It's a easy and good recipe both mashing and sugar head it has it all. I really like getting a second beverage from the same grain.
Jimbo' has a lot of great info to make this easy and he's hell of a good guy always sharing that info.

I vote for tried & true

Windy City