my introduction

[Appalachian Outlaw]

hello to all my fellow hobbyist! I hail from the Appalachian mountain region of our united states. I have been reading this site since somewhere around June of 2013 and did not even attempt to try to create any magic potion until the dawn of the new year. I call myself to have read every single post on this forum and some even two or three times or even more, there is however no guarantee that I did not miss one or two. I have actually studied this site as if I were preparing for an exam on it.

I have been drinking good ole mountain dew since I was in my teens and have always been around it enough to know most of the lingo and terms used in the production of it and a basic understanding of how to do it, but have never attempted to make any on my own. I have even had the pleasure of drinking some of the best moonshine ever created by Mr. Popcorn Sutton and I once lived in the same town as he did and lets just say it was long before there was ever a distillery in his honor.

I just today registered to this site and I am trying to do this correctly so I don't get told to go and read this page or that page, unless it is something I honestly missed. I have been reading this site for over nine months now and I believe in at least attempting to do this the right way.

now as for my attempts to make good ole mountain dew, I have had some good runs and some bad runs, but am always learning something new with each and every new batch or run. I have the basic fundamentals pretty much down pat, at least I feel that I do, my hiccups seem to be in trying to achieve as much consistency as possible, along with having a very tasty jar of mountain dew.

right after Christmas I got to looking around my shop and in my storage buildings to see what kind of material I had to accomplish the building of my distillation device. I ended up finding a 16L stock pot with a lid that I figured would be a good starter pot and I purchased all of my copper tubing and fittings. I made sure to use lead free solder in my build.

now, I live on a corner lot on the busiest street in my city, surrounded by houses and constant traffic, so I knew I was going to have to be very careful in my endeavors.

I used the 16L stock pot which will safely hold four gallons of mash and drilled the top and soldered a 1/2 inch fitting and used about 16 inches of 1/2 inch for the column, I then turned it 90 degrees for about three feet and again turned it 90 degrees down to match up to my worm coil I made with a coil of 1/4 inch tubing in a five gallon bucket that I attached with a reducer. I soldered every joint except for the end to the pot and the end to the worm to reduce chance of leaks and ease of set up and break down. I learned by reading this site what not to use for gaskets for my pot so I ended up at first using strictly flour and water until I saw the section on ptfe gaskets so I made one for my pot and quickly learned that I could just wrap my two connections with the ptfe tape and wallah!! no leaks, I have since made several pot gaskets and used several rolls of tape..

as for my cooling, I toyed around with a couple of ways of doing it in the beginning but I finally figured out how to get my condenser to operate very efficiently and I can fill my bucket up and with a three hour run, I might have to push a gallon or two of hot water off the top of the bucket but overall I am very pleased with how it works. my distillate comes out of the worm at 60-65 degrees.

I took great care in building this little still, after trial and error and running vinegar and water washes and boxed wine washes, it seems to do a pretty good job for what I have built, I would prefer to not be ragged on because of the size of my still as I am learning the pitfalls of it being small that we can discuss later. my still runs very smoothly, I do have a thermometer in the top of the lid but only in the vapor not the liquid, and I know that is probably not the correct spot but I only really use it for reference to know when it is about to run and to compare the temp with the ABV% chart. I did order and do have an alcohol proof hydrometer, but I do not yet have a specific gravity hydrometer, but will soon get one.

I know I going to get slammed for not having one to measure my mash starting and finished gravity, but I have been going by my airlocks and the good ole taste like the old timers do and have actually had pretty good results. I ferment in two five gallon food safe buckets with homemade airlocks, and one 7 gallon carboy.

my ferments go anywhere from three days to ten days on average, and I have made as high as 82.5% ABV on a spirit run. I have read and read and read the pages on making cuts until I can quote them in my sleep and I have set here with 30 jars trying to sample, blend, learn the cuts, etc.. I feel that I have a pretty good understanding as to when to make the cuts according to smell, taste, as it comes out of the worm but I feel I still have a long way to go to get really good at it.

my goal is to get to where I can get the proof I want to come out of the worm and to not have to dilute it down with any additional water, I use very good well water from a well that is over 300 feet deep and my mountain dew is always as clear or more clear than water, I have never once have had a jar of cloudy dew from the time it starts until the time I shut it down. I know it is possible to do but I do have some questions, some general and some technical and I know that what I am aiming for can be achieved. I still consider myself a novice distiller and I have 22 runs under my belt to date with 7 gallons ready to run tonight.

now I would like to start with this question first and I know I have read a little bit about it but nothing seems to stick in my mind. I would like to know if I am correct in feeling that 4 gallons is just too small or borderline to use as a pot because of the amount of distillate that I actually get per run, now my strip runs seem to be the ones to suffer but after all they are just strip runs, I have tried to slow them down and make some cuts for a single foot run but it gets all smeared together as I can see the oily residue floating on top of every jar. I do not feel that heat is a factor because I can run from a drop or two per second to a pencil lead size stream and all in between, my spirit runs seem to do much better and I believe that is due to the fact that my pot is a much stronger wash than when doing a strip run with mash. this is one thing I am stumbling with, I do use ujssm and it is the only thing I have made or run so far, I want the traditional corn flavor moonshine of the Appalachian area and I have gotten some very good sweet tasting corny dew but I cant seem to repeat it. my guess is that having only four gallons is kind of like to me that as soon as I go into hearts it is kinda like time for the tails if you know what I mean, I will relate it to flying a short distance in an airplane, by the time you get up to cruising altitude then it is time to start your decent back down to the ground and you have spent very little time in the air. I feel like a larger pot would not only allow more wash but there would be a larger quantity of hearts involved with a larger pot. am I correct in thinking this way?

I personally like my dew to be around 90 to 100 proof when finished and would rater it be this way out of the worm instead of having to dilute it with more water, this Is my main goal I hope to achieve.
I hope this was a proper introduction as I tried to include everything you guys ask for, sorry if it is too long, lol..

[S-Cackalacky]

Welcome to the forum. Yep, that was quite a long read. The only dig I have about your still is the size of the worm tubing. The very least it should be is 3/8" ID. Until you can get that fixed, I would suggest that you make sure the wash you put in the boiler is very clean. A small piece of cracked corn could clog it up. As a precaution you might put a small hole in your lid and plug it with a natural cork stopper to act as a pressure relief. Some folks here recommend nothing less than 1/2" for the worm.

Sounds like you're already seeing the need for a larger pot. You can do your cuts a little easier by collecting in small jars - 3 or 4 ounces per jar. That way you can find the transitions between heads, hearts and tails with less loss of hearts between the transitions. I run about 4 gallon charges in a 5 gallon pot and find that the smaller collection jars are a big help.

Good luck moving ahead and stay safe.

[Appalachian Outlaw]

thanks for the reply, I do understand the need for a bigger worm, but in my defense I had already bought it, bent it, installed it before I realized its actual size. I have never had any trouble with surging or huffing or anything like that, I was very careful when soldering it together as one unit to make sure that it had a nice even flow by pouring water thru it as I attached it inside the condenser bucket, every drop in top comes out in jar smoothly. It seems to handle even high heat strip runs when running pencil lead size stream, I may just have to push a little more hot water off the top when running it hard and fast for strip runs.

as far as my cuts go, I use half pint jars and I did mention in my welcome post that I have sat down with 30 jars off of a spirit run and did the taste, smell, dilute, mix thing and got some pretty good results. I have however tried several times with small jars to do single runs, but they always seem to be smeared no matter how slow or how fast I run them, on the other hand when doing spirit runs I can get thirty jars and end up with around a gallon and sometimes a little more of high proof and the rest is heads and tails of course.

it just seems to me that 4 gallons is for some reason too small to do a good single run for drinking, maybe due to low Abv of mash, but when I have 40% low wines for spirit runs it does way better and I get good alcohol.

another question I have is one that is stuck in my head and I have not found an answer too on this site yet. if I am fermenting three containers of mash, all ujssm, two four gallon in buckets and one 7 gallon in carboy, because of the individual characteristics of each one, would it be better to just ferment all 15 gallons together for consistency? is that where my problem lies?

[Appalachian Outlaw]

oh, I forgot to add that I filter my wash very good, it comes out slightly greenish but yet clear also. I filter it thru several layers of cheese cloth and I have never had anything in my pot but liquid, I am very careful about this, I rack everything, I do not pour or stir mash at all.

[S-Cackalacky]

About the fermenting - I do, basically, the same thing. I use 4 five gallon food grade buckets with about 4 gallons of wash in each (water, sugar, and sweet feed grain). When it finishes I'll rack it off into 2 or 3 five gallon water jugs for a secondary settling and then into my boiler. There will be mixing of the original wash in that whole process. Also, the total of 12 gallons, or so, of wash will give me enough strips for a single spirit run. I figure that by the time it all ends up in the spirit run, I have accomplished a degree of consistency in the final product. One thing to keep in mind is that no matter how hard you try, every wash will be a bit different from the next. About the best you can do is develop a consistent process that produces something you like to drink.

It sounds like you're doing pretty good. Just work on getting a bigger boiler and worm and you'll be good to go.

[Appalachian Outlaw]

gotcha! thanks for your input man, I am needing some opinions from more experienced distillers, I have a good taster, every time I make some, wife is right beside me waiting on her taste of my latest batch and I wait for her thumbs up.. lol.

I have been distilling each container of mash separately and keeping low wines separate but it suddenly hit me one day that they all go in same pot for spirit run so what would be the difference in combining them all together to get more consistency for the strip runs, I hope that makes sense, it sounds different than what I am meaning.. I am sure you understand my thought process..

I am already working on a bigger pot, and yes I will definitely go with a bigger worm also. I am leaning towards at least a 10 gallon pot, maybe 12. that way I can safely run ten gallons at a time.
I got to stay just big or small enough to fly under the radar and not raise any suspicion on this busy street..

[S-Cackalacky]

That sounds like a good size. I bought a keg back last summer, but it's pretty well beat up and will take a good bit of work to turn it into a still boiler.

Good luck man - you're doing great.

[Appalachian Outlaw]

I am sure you will get it man, if you are anything like any other man I know, when we want something to work, we make it work, but safely of course. we will find a way!

[Zak Griffin]

Not sure what you mean when you say you don't want to have to water your spirit down?

[Appalachian Outlaw]

what i am meaning is to try to have my hearts come out at around the proof i am wanting to keep (90) or so, without having to dilute it down to the proof i want, i understand that at 90 proof or whatever proof that there is water involved, i was just wondering if it is possible to configure your ABV% in your pot so you can accurately predict the outcome at the worm... this might not make any sense or even be possible, i was just wondering...

[S-Cackalacky]

Probably not a real practical thing to do. If you decide you would like to age some of your product, you would want it to be up around 110 to 120 proof and then dilute it after the aging process.

Kinda makes you feel good too if you're able to increase the volume just by adding a little distilled water. It won't have any affect on the flavor - water is water whether it comes out the worm or you add it.

[S-Cackalacky]

By the way - there are calculators on the Parent Site that will help you with the diluting. You just plug some numbers in and it will tell you how much water you need to add to bring it to the desired proof.

[Appalachian Outlaw]

i do admit it is nice to be able to take a gallon of 160 and end up with two gallons of 80, but to me it just seems that it is smoother if you keep the proof close to what you are wanting, the flavor profile changes for one thing and it may be just me but it just seems to be a better tasting smoother product when it comes out of the worm around 80 to 100 proof. i am aware of the calcs and thanks for the info. i honestly at this time do not wish to age any, i prefer it white and i date everything and drink the oldest first, i know it does age and smooth out a little on its own just sitting in the jar.. i do enjoy getting other peoples perspective on things, i plan on having some friends over soon and sitting them down at the table and passing around numbered jars and letting them sample each one and critique each one individually to get some real time thoughts on what i am making, like a blind taste test. my wife came up with that idea.. oh and i use strictly well water from a well that is over 300 feet deep.. it has been on family property for many years..

[Zak Griffin]

Product coming off the still at 40% will have a nicer flavour than that at 60%, if you like the taste of wet dog and feet

My pot, running an 8% CFW or similar starts producing at about 70% on a strip run, and about 85% on a spirit run of 40% low wines. What I call the hearts of the spirit run are usually between about 70% and 45%. Ish. Obviously I don't make cuts based on ABV%, but I take note of the ABV% of the good stuff for my records...

[Appalachian Outlaw]

i need someone to clarify one of my questions for me.

on the very first page of the ujssm recipe i noticed that he RECOMMENDS that you take all your low wines from your first strip run of your first fermentation as they are sweet and combine them with your wash with your second strip run that now is a sour mash because of using backset. is it not the same if you just save them with the rest of your low wines until enough is saved to do your spirit run? i mean it will all still be mixed together as low wines correct? that is one of the questions i have had since i started, i have been just saving all my low wines, including first fermentation "sweet" wines and just doing my spirit run when i collect four gallons.. could this be in any way a reason or fault on my part that is not getting me that consistency that i am seeking? very curious to get some input on this.. thanks.

[superdaveva]

You put backset back in the wash after your done with your striping runs,welcome aboard hillbilly

[Zak Griffin]

I personally keep the hearts of my gen 1 'sweet' strip and drink them... Toss the heads and throw the tails in with the low wines from gen 2 - 5 or whatever. I love the taste of both the sweet mash whiskey and the sour mash, so I keep the sweet mash seperate. Make sense?

[Appalachian Outlaw]

You put backset back in the wash after your done with your striping runs,welcome aboard hillbilly

ok, superdaveva I am not quite understanding what you are saying here.. I don't think you are understanding my question actually, I understand the part about putting my backset or slop in with my next wash to create the sourmash, I was talking about the low wines not the mash or wash. go read the very first page of the ujssm post and you will see what I am talking about.

[Appalachian Outlaw]

makes sense to me ZAK, it all ends up as low wines and turns into a spirit run anyway. everyone's palate is different, some like more heads, or more tails, more proof, that is the beauty of doing it yourself, if it makes you happy and you like it then drink it, sweet, sour, oaked, aged, whatever makes you happy right, there are about a thousand different ways to do it so there is no actual wrong answer as long as you follow all the safety precautions and remember to "don't drink and shine".

[Poseidon]

Hmmm, ok it's nearly 2am and this was very verbose. If I'm understanding your situation you aren't getting consistency... I have UJSSM that is like I don't even know what gen I've ran it for over a year and am at the point that I am going to havest it's yeast and two lots of backset and split to two new Demi Johns. Running this recipe for over a year I get consistence by a couple tweaks.

I run my batch 40-50 liters siphoned off into my keg via vacuum generator. (back injury, can't lift it and it maintains sterility) (btw sorry but I think size does matter LOL) ok I run get 6-8 liters from 60-40% alcohol. (if only way to get constant ABV is to reflux to the best of my knowledge; my grand father always said first is strong then as the ABV goes down the taste gets better) Once my run is done if I've been fiddling with temp which I usually don't, I crank the heat to max and kill low wines at 25-30% ABV as I just lose patience sitting there that long. Then I vacuum off my backset and use the heat to liquefy my sugar. Let cool to ~33-35*c and pitch yeast nutrient with yeast top up. (I have been topping up my yeast every batch to refresh the colony which I think even the taste, but I'll leave that for more in depth convo) dump cooled backset back with my original grain collect and restock obviously top up with water, next batch...

Regarding low wines and harvested alcohol, grandpa always said ya go 146 choices and if ya want consistency take the first and last bottle and set them aside. Take the best bottle from your last batch, spread it over 6 - 8 bottles depending on yield and keep a little so 6 bottles plus one, so 100 ml per bottle. Mix all the middle bottles together and fill the ones you just put 100ml in maybe 1/2-3/4 now use proof the lot, I usual proof to 85-90 with water. Ok now take you first and last bottle and bring to taste as these give best aroma and complexity in taste. I personally age mine on oak before this.

Low wines. I have read countless times how everyone says save low wines tell you have a batch. I don't, stands back for the wrath of everyone to reside, lol. I put my low wines into my very next batch before I vacuum off my Demi John, I believe this had given my SM a consistency that makes me enjoy it 10X that of buying JD or JB at the store. I find heaps more enjoyment in mine.

Now I run a keg so I have the volume to get cuts of some quantity if ya only running a small batch instead of liters we talking milliliters and I think this is where you are saying you want it all to come out at say 40 ABV because it taste good there. Pot stills don't do that and you may have been thinking its because it's small. Not in my experience, I find mine may hit 60 - 70 ABV but it's very rich taste at that point and it always tappers, that's just how pot stills are.

So moral of this verbose response is consistency comes from all sides, fermentation, backset, distillation and blending...

Kind Regards