Single Element 120v: How Realistic?

[Jif]

Hello all,

I'm in the process of building a half barrel all electric pot still. I've begun to start the wiring and further reading has given me pause.

Initially, I got a lot of the plans out of books rather than forums, which may be outdated. My original intent was to power this rig with a single 1500w boiler, because in "Making Pure Corn Whiskey," the author stated any higher can't be run on 120v outlets, and when I started the build process I was in an apartment with no access to anything higher voltage.

An engineer friend of mine helped me plan out a controller, a likely over-engineered setup consisting of a Variac, a series of project boxes, some fuses, all mounted on a hefty wood block. The Variac is only rated to do 120v.

Since then, I've moved. I'm beginning to realize that heating up a full load of around ten gallons in this thing with a single 1500w element is going to be interminable. I have a few options and a few questions on where would be the best place for me to go:

1) Stick with what I have, the current controller and the 1500W. Maybe insulate with reflectix and hope it pans out
2) Have a buddy with electrical experience add a 20A GFCI outlet and upgrade to a 2000W element. Quick research shows that this setup would draw 16.7A, and the Variac is rated to 22. I could use the existing controller and the only expense would be the hardware to add the outlet and the cost of a new element.
3) I'm going to be distilling in what is also the laundry room. I'd have the sell the Variac and come up with some other method for controlling the element, but everything else I have would work and I could unplug the dryer and run a much heftier element.

I'm at a loss. Can anyone offer any guidance? I have a feeling I'm going to be listing this Variac on eBay...

[Tokoroa_Shiner]

I would say go with the heftier element. Seeing as how you have the option. You can always dial the element down if needed. But you can't turn a smaller one up past it's rated power. The extra power will help with stripping runs too.

[Da Yooper]

I run a 1/4 barrel on 120 volt , 2000 watt element and it works great. Now 120 volt on a 1/2 barrel your heat up time is going to be long but can be done. I would consider 220 volt if possible and 5000 watt element. Need to keep in mind the amps that will be drawn and that the circuit being used can handle it.

[LBHD]

I have a 2kw in a 1/4 bbl and it has been good so far (im new). I am putting together a 1/2 bbl with 2x 2kw elements to run on 2 different 20 amp circuits as a stripper.

If I could run 240 to my distilling area, I would figure out a way to get to 240v and get a new variac- then you can get up to ~5kw with a single low density element!

[firewater69]

I have to run 120v where i am. it take me 2.5 hrs to bring a 15 gal wash up to temp. i just use that time to work on my bike or read about distilling. 2k element & a variac.

[Condensifier]

Another option is to run a second element on a different circuit for heat up only. I know there are some people here who do that.

[The KYChemist]

I would recommend checking out Jimbo's electric conversion thread. If you have the opportunity to go 220, do it. My heat up time is right 50 min. Anything longer, I feel I would be frustrated, as running by Boka already takes about 9 hours. From element to wall, I would say my setup ran around $165. That's only because I wanted to do it just once, and not experiment around. It could probably be done for far less. I run a 5500w element on 220.

[Jif]

Sounds like I need to list my Variac on eBay. Anyone want it before I list it?

EDIT: It doesn't look like dryer outlet is GFCI. Is this an issue?

[still_stirrin]

Something to consider:

If you want to be "forward compatible" for 240 VAC but are constrained to 120 VAC today, you could select a 240V element (I selected the 4.5kW/240V LWD element and installed 2 of them). One element is 12.8 ohms, when used on 120V consumes 9.375 amps (well below a typical 15A-rated circuit). And that corresponds to 1125W (120 x 9.375) heat input. To increase the start up heat for a 2" column, doubling the elements, using 2 separate circuits however, would provide over 2.2kW of heat on the low watt density elements. Good surface area for faster heat transfer to the fluid.

I chose the 4.5kW size because I have two circuits in the shed which each have 15A breakers and are wired with 14/3 Romex. So, I didn't want to jamb too much power through those circuits. Bearing in mind that the circuits would also power support equipment, like laptop power, condenser coolant pump power, reading light, and a radio (OK, that's a luxury). But I'm confident that keeping the heaters to 10A or lower give me plenty of "headroom".

Now, here's the neat part....if I do get a 240V/30A circuit in the shed (too expensive at this time, but who knows?), I can easily modify my power controller to regulate one of the 4.5kW elements, boosting input power for faster starts (if needed). Of note, when I designed the power controller, I used 10/3 wire and Pass & Seymour 30A twist lock connectors for forward (240V) compatibility.

Bottomline, I'm constrained with 120VAC now too. But, I did get enough power (2.2kW) for the 2" column without overloading the building's circuits. Sure, there is a little more capital cost in the controller build and boiler interface (additional TC ferrule), but I think it a wise "investment".

Just my $0.02. YMMV

[Jimbo]

EDIT: It doesn't look like dryer outlet is GFCI. Is this an issue?

You dont need GFCI for this. Just make sure you tie ground to everything metal, the enclosure for the controllers, and most importantly the pots themselves. If using kegs, drill a hold in the skirt to affix a solid ground lug to.

[Red Rim]

I like the dual element plan as well. If you hook up one 5500 watt element straight to the dryer outlet, completely non regulated and the other 120 element through your controller. When you come to a boil, unplug your 240 and let the regulated 120 do the work. An extra element and cord are cheap and your heat up time would be quick.

[Jif]

EDIT: It doesn't look like dryer outlet is GFCI. Is this an issue?

You dont need GFCI for this. Just make sure you tie ground to everything metal, the enclosure for the controllers, and most importantly the pots themselves. If using kegs, drill a hold in the skirt to affix a solid ground lug to.

I have the Stilldragon Element Guard Kit installed on the keg, so I have a grounding lug built into that for the element.

When I was building my 120V controller, the person I spoke with suggested wiring an inline fuse rated for the load, so that if anything went negative the fuse would blow rather than kicking the breaker, as well as wiring it to a GFCI outlet. What kind of safeguards can I add in for a 240V setup? Looking at GFCI that supports 30A, the only stuff is inline and insanely expensive. People, by and large, don't seem to be adding these safeguards. Am I being overcareful? I'd rather be safe than sorry, so to speak.

I like the dual element plan as well. If you hook up one 5500 watt element straight to the dryer outlet, completely non regulated and the other 120 element through your controller. When you come to a boil, unplug your 240 and let the regulated 120 do the work. An extra element and cord are cheap and your heat up time would be quick.

The geography of my stilling area sort of prevents having two elements going simultaneously, and I'd rather go simpler and have just one element that can do the job. I don't mind building another controller and I'm sure I can sell my Variac for more than I can build a new 240V controller for. I just want to make sure I'm doing all of this as cleanly and safely as possible.

[still_stirrin]

If constrained to a single element, the 5.5kW will heat up the quickest. But you definitely will need to throttle her back as you get to boiling. You didn't mention what size of pot still head you've got but I'd assume it 2". So, running it will likely be best in the 1.2kW to 1.8kW range depending on the ABV in the wash.

So, as you design and build your controller remember the full power of the element will draw 25A. Make sure your dryer circuit is at least 30A breakered, which it probably is. That would ensure the house wiring can handle the load as well, especially for the duration of the boil.

And as far as the ground fault circuit interrupter, I'd be surprised if the dryer circuit has one (in addition to the breaker). And remember that it too is in a "wet area" along with your washer. So a GFCI would seem to redundant (to me).

But safety is paramount. I'd want to make sure the house is properly wired for that power first. If it is built to code, you're probably safe. But I'd still want to do that audit.

Sorry, my engineering background is showing up again.

Be safe.

[still_stirrin]

I like the dual element plan as well. If you hook up one 5500 watt element straight to the dryer outlet, completely non regulated and the other 120 element through your controller. When you come to a boil, unplug your 240 and let the regulated 120 do the work. An extra element and cord are cheap and your heat up time would be quick.

Oh, I definitely would not "unplug" this connection when you're ready to reduce heat. Have you ever seen an arc welder pushing 25A? That would scare the crap outa' me. Always use the breaker to power up and down. You should never plug a plug like this under load.

Please don't do that.

[Jimbo]

I dont think the 5500W element at 120V (1375W) will need to be throttled back, unless your still is small. The lowest I run mine at, ever, with 8-12Gallons is 2000W for spirit run. 3000W to boil 13 gallons of beer in a 15.5 keggle, and 4000W to do stripping runs of 10-12 gallons.

At 240V, they draw 23A full tilt to make 5500W, I have 2 going full bore to heat 26 gallons of water in 2 pots with a 50A breaker.

GFCI is great if you have deep pockets, are accident prone, or just want to be as safe as possible. They'll pop at the first whiff of anything awry. But if grounded properly, your breaker will pop if any short condition shows up, it just may kill you first if your holding your keg, with bare feet, standing in a puddle of spilt wash on the floor and your keg goes live to some fault in your system.

[Jif]

Got it, this is all very helpful. Appreciate all the expertise here, folks.

My boiler is a 15.5 gallon keg with two Stildlragon ferrules welded in already, one for a 2" sightglass and another for the element guard kit. The still head, when built, will be a 2" pot which necks down after the bend in the top. Part of the reason I don't want a second element is to avoid any more drilling/welding of the keg, but also there isn't a 120v outlet of a high enough amperage near the 240v dryer. The dryer, however, is right next to a convenient water source for a liebig.

The outlet of my dryer is an older three prong style. My understanding is that this does not provide a true ground. After a bit of searching, I'm trying to figure out my best method to make my setup as safe and powerful as possible.

1) Do I need to replace my existing outlet with one that is four pronged? I understand this is what you need to have to be actually grounded.
2) I saw some folks putting in spa panels where their outlets are, which appears to be a good way to get an additional breaker, and thereby an additional failsafe. Is this helpful/necessary?
3) Any other general tips? I'm pretty sure my dryer is on a 30A circuit, but I'll verify when I get home. Any things I need to watch our for? I was intending on building a controller based either off the Stilldragon kit or one of the Chinese ones of ebay everyone seems so peppy about, and adding a failsafe on-off switch, an indicator light showing that the controller is on, and maybe even a volt/ammeter just in case. Anyone thing I'm going for overkill? I may be over-worrying about electricity.

[Jimbo]

Anyone thing I'm going for overkill? I may be over-worrying about electricity.

electricity is a good thing to worry about, if youre gonna worry about something.

do whatever makes you feel comfortable and content with your setup. nuthin wrong with being safe, this is 240 we're talking about here, not testing a 9V battery against your tongue.

[Jif]

Anyone thing I'm going for overkill? I may be over-worrying about electricity.

electricity is a good thing to worry about, if youre gonna worry about something.

do whatever makes you feel comfortable and content with your setup. nuthin wrong with being safe, this is 240 we're talking about here, not testing a 9V battery against your tongue.

That was sort of my thought. I'm happy to have some help sorting out what's actually helpful vs. overpriced and unecessaryy.

[The KYChemist]

The SCR controller Jimbo, myself, and others use works excellently. I have heard of no problems with it. If you get meters, get the analog ones. People have had trouble with the digital ones. I have both on my controller. If you get an ammeter, make sure it says no shunt needed. I put one on mine, and have a flawed reading. I still need to take the shunt off of my controller. Some people don't use meters at all, but I like having them, and they were cheap. As long as the house wiring up to the plug is correct, I see no reason why a three prong outlet wouldn't work. Others may be able to chime in on this, as I'm kind of electrically illiterate.

EDIT: Now that I think about... I basically am running a 3-wire setup. I'm using 4 prong, but I have the white wires blanked off, and not in use.

[still_stirrin]

The solid state relay (SSR) circuit designs are discussed in the long thread (50+ pages). The design is very easy to build and is reliable and not too expensive. Just make sure you get the right model; you want the one which uses a potentiometer to adjust the phase angle.

I built my controller with a Triac circuit. There's a few more components (resistors and capacitors) used. In hindsight, I probably would build around the SSR if I started again. they're an elegant solution.

And you can add an ammeter and voltmeter to either solution. Bling, bling!

There are many homes which have been wired with 3-wire 220V power. The ground is tied to the neutral. Just tie your keg ground to the neutral in your control. If worried about the neutral potential, check the neutral to house ground rod voltage. It should be zero. If you don't know what I'm talking about, I'd advise getting an electrician to help you. Be safe.

[superdaveva]

The most I could get from mine was 22.7 amps. 5500 watt element, 220 plunged into my dryer plug. Don't buy the cheep meters on eBay, mine was about 20 bucks but is very sensitive.