"Lead Free" Brass needle valves?

[blackwaterstout]

I'm looking to source a 1/4" needle valve for a Boka build and was thinking of ordering from Plumbingsupply.com

I know stainless is the best but is very hard to find and expensive. Plubbingsupply.com has a couple of different brass valves that will work with one labeled "Lead Free". Is it really lead free and would this be good to use on a Boka? I've read about pickling brass hardware. Would this need pickled?

[BigSwede]

You are going to get differing replies on this one, ultimately, it's up to you.

I personally would use it, if there is nothing else available. I'd also up the size to 3/8". Pickling wouldn't hurt, but I've had a nagging suspicion that pickling doesn't do much of anything; more of a "feel good" measure.

However... lovely lab-grade stainless needle valves are very plentiful on eBay for $15 to $25. I'd do that instead. Here's your new pretty:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HOKE-3752G4Y-St ... 0653195033" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

I have this exact valve, Hoke makes gorgeous hardware. Again, I think 3/8" is preferable. Good luck!

[bearriver]

I would be more concerned with the valve stem packing material, ensuring its made of PTFE.

The concern with brass is lead content. Some of us feel the lead content levels in new brass are acceptable, while others recommend pickling, and others say don't use it at all. Personally I would use a brass valve if a SS one was not available.

I spent a metric butt load of money on my SS valve from Amazon, when I should have got it on EBay for a fraction of the cost as BigSwede suggested. I dislike online still related purchases, so if I were to do it again I would source the valve locally.

[ShineRunnah]

From all I've read on brass, the newer stuff has very, very little lead in it. It is my personal opinion you'd have to make your whole still from brass to get concentrations high enough to actually cause harm, and I'm not sure even that would do it. I'm not suggesting it, but I hope you get my point.

I'm with bearriver, the packing is what I'd be worried about. The surface area of a needle valve is insignificant and shouldn't be a concern unless its 80 years old and contains a ton of lead.

Stainless is always a better option, but can be pricey. I figure I'm only buying it once, and opt for the best material wherever possible.

[blackwaterstout]

You are going to get differing replies on this one, ultimately, it's up to you.

I personally would use it, if there is nothing else available. I'd also up the size to 3/8". Pickling wouldn't hurt, but I've had a nagging suspicion that pickling doesn't do much of anything; more of a "feel good" measure.

However... lovely lab-grade stainless needle valves are very plentiful on eBay for $15 to $25. I'd do that instead. Here's your new pretty:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HOKE-3752G4Y-St ... 0653195033" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

I have this exact valve, Hoke makes gorgeous hardware. Again, I think 3/8" is preferable. Good luck!

Do they make a stainless version that uses compression fittings rather than threaded fittings? I'm using 1/4" copper tubing.

[ShineRunnah]

If they've got the little caps on the ends, they're usually compression fittings.

[blackwaterstout]

Thanks. Back to the brass valves. These types are very common for use on things like ice makers. Is lead not a concern with water or does it become more of a concern with higher temperature ethanol?

[bearriver]

Lead is a concern wherever it is used in food grade applications. The use of it is a matter of personal choice, in where you must educate yourself.

My advice is to look up the actual lead levels of the brass you are looking to purchase according to the laws regulating it's maximum limits. Then figure the weight of your fitting, and how much lead is actually in that fitting by weight.

Then go look at how much lead the average American, assuming you are American, ingests every day through food and drink by weight. After a few Google searches you should be well equipped to make your own decisions about what is or isn't safe.

-Bear

[rumBum2]

I just bought a 1/2" SS valve from this guys(new $17.99)+ship :http://www.ebay.com/itm/Parker-1-2-Stai ... 1e95f77fcb
I purchased the 1/2" only because it was half the price of the 3/8". The seal is made of ptfe.

[bearriver]

I spent an arm and a leg for that same exact fitting over a year ago. Good deal

[BigSwede]

^^That is an awesome deal, may have to snag one for future use.

Just about any small stainless needle valve of this sort of construction is going to have commensurate packing, like a quality PTFE - but not always. What you do is get the part number, like on that Hoke valve, then go to the Hoke web site and using the part number, determine what sort of polymers (if any) are inside. Again, most will be PTFE, because these are engineered for labs and industry to resist aggressive media, like acids, etc.

What I linked to is just an example, there are hundreds of them on eBay, do a bit of searching. One of those new can be $150 or more. They are huge bargains relative to the cost from a dealer or the factory.

Larger needle valves will still have the sensitivity to do fine work, yet can be opened wide for stripping or pot still duties. Yes even the 1/2" job will be fine. Just recommend to keep the tube from your catch pool to the valve relatively short, because if you are using say 1/2" copper, the volume of the tube from pool to valve can increase the overall capture volume excessively. You normally want to keep this small, which is why I've never understood having a liebig between LM pool and valve; doesn't the liebig become part of the capture volume? And it can get big, quick, causing smearing?

Anyway, I'm relatively new and speaking from theory but I think I can fabricate OK. These valves are a great deal. Go get one! Friends don't let friends use Home Depot brass ice maker valves.

And the stainless jobs look cool too!

[blackwaterstout]

Amazing that the 1/2" is $17 shipped but the cheapest I see a 1/4" is $33 shipped. New valves are at least $65 outside of ebay. Can't believe how expensive these little buggers are.

Had anyone tried one of these Chinese valves. http://m.ebay.com/itm/281486774240" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Extremely skeptical of Chinese made thing that come in contact with anything ingested. Doesn't list the seal type so could easily be rubber or something undesirable.

[bearriver]

For $17 I think it's a total waste of time to keep looking. Just buy a damned valve and make some hooch! There are other, better ways to save money.

[blackwaterstout]

For $17 I think it's a total waste of time to keep looking. Just buy the damned valve and make some hooch! There are other, better ways to save money.

My Bok is gonna be 1.5" since it's what I currently have on hand. You think 1/2" is too large for a 1.5"?

[bearriver]

Not when it's only $17. Just get a reducer fitting on either end for a dollar or two to match whatever it is that you have planned. It will be just fine. If you ever build a larger still or want better support from your valve like in my pictures, you will already have the hardware on hand to get the job done right.

Your over thinking it. Just check this part off your list then move onto other research and decisions.

[rumBum2]

I'm using 3/8" off my boka, then soldered a small section of 1/2" that I also flared. Was cheap and easy..

[Hound Dog]

When you look inside the valve you will see it is choked down quite a bit. Snag the 1/2" valve at $17 while you can and roll with it. If you get a little ice maker valve, you will see that it is about an 1/8" inside. You will never be able to open it up and strip something if you want to.

As for your original question, a modern brass valve is OK. I had one on my last still and I'm no more retarded now than I wuz before...

New on the shelf marked lead free is so low in lead content you would get more lead handling your standard brass keys daily. Certainly loading your gun daily. Yes some might worry about the packing and I will not disparage rule number 8, but I do have to ask how much the edge of the packing touching the gallons and gallons of liquor is doing. I think I could eat a dozen of the little pieces of packing and be no worse for wear.

[ShineRunnah]

When you look inside the valve you will see it is choked down quite a bit. Snag the 1/2" valve at $17 while you can and roll with it. If you get a little ice maker valve, you will see that it is about an 1/8" inside. You will never be able to open it up and strip something if you want to.

As for your original question, a modern brass valve is OK. I had one on my last still and I'm no more retarded now than I wuz before...

New on the shelf marked lead free is so low in lead content you would get more lead handling your standard brass keys daily. Certainly loading your gun daily. Yes some might worry about the packing and I will not disparage rule number 8, but I do have to ask how much the edge of the packing touching the gallons and gallons of liquor is doing. I think I could eat a dozen of the little pieces of packing and be no worse for wear.

I wouldn't worry so much about contamination as I would the seal breaking down and leaking. But I run propane and leaks scare me a bit.
My outlook is pretty much : if I can buy something that is safer, will last longer and only costs a little more, that's what I'm buying. I don't want to be wishing I spent an extra $10 while sitting in a burn ward.

Stills can be costly, however safety is priceless!

[bearriver]

Stills can be costly, however safety is priceless!

Now your in the notable and quotable thread!

[Hound Dog]

ShineRunnah does have a very good point.

[Hound Dog]

If you are in the midst of your build, I would have to give a nod toward the bypass setup that Bearriver has pictured also. It seems like it would be quite the handy setup for controlling the flow of things.

[bigal2286]

I think in general stainless is almost always a better option than brass but as of jan 4, 2014 it became fed law in the US that brass used in potable water systems must be "lead-free". This means the brass contains less than .02% lead which is the same as the plumbing solder we use. So I think most fittings sold as plumbing fittings should be as safe as the other materials we consider safe. PTFE seals are still important but that's the same for brass or stainless. Just my two cents.

[BigSwede]

I think in general stainless is almost always a better option than brass but as of jan 4, 2014 it became fed law in the US that brass used in potable water systems must be "lead-free". This means the brass contains less than .02% lead which is the same as the plumbing solder we use. So I think most fittings sold as plumbing fittings should be as safe as the other materials we consider safe. PTFE seals are still important but that's the same for brass or stainless. Just my two cents.

Good to see and learn this, but we must keep in mind that shelves and warehouses are still full of higher-lead brasses, and will be for a LONG time. Easy to get old stock mixed up with new.

If I was buying brass for a still, I'd buy it on line from a high-volume plumbing dealer, and ensure it is described as lead free, AND has the little tag or stamping.

[Erichimedes]

OP: although I'm guessing you've already made your decision on a needle valve, I've just recently gone through this on my boka. My hardware store bought 3/8" needle valve really does NOT have enough fine adjustment to run efficiently. That's with 7 gallons of 40% low wines running at around 750 watts. On another still I have the same valve in 1/4" and I think it works alright, but I now believe those who've said you need to invest in a quality needle valve. Just my .02

As for lead content, both brass valves I bought are stamped lead free and said lead free on the packaging. I feel ok about it, although my new valve is stainless.