Booner's Casual All Corn

[Halfbaked]

Woodshed you mentioned that you would use a Ph meter rather than strips a few hundred posts ago. Do you have one that you recommend that is good and not break the bank?

[BanjoInWA]

Hello everyone,

As of yet, I have only used sugar bashed recipes and am eager to try an AG using these enzymes. I have built a boiling pot with an attachment for a drill for stirring similar to the video. As I get started wrapping my head around the process, It seems that the two important factors here is the size of the grain grind and ph. The grind is easy but I have questions about the ph. I do have a digital meter that is used for testing water for gardening. I've used a liquid ph up and down but am not sure I really want to use that for this application. I've seen in this thread the use of citric acid and backset to make adjustments but was hoping someone could narrow it down in simple terms how to do this correctly. As this is my first attempt at an AG and haven't made a batch of anything in a while, I have no backset on hand.

Thanks for any help y'all can offer.

3', 4 plate flute on a keg for boiler converted to electric.

[moosemilk]

When I don't have backset and use citric acid, I do it one teaspoon at a time. Give a bit of wait after you add it each time and a good stir. I usually wait about 20 to 30 minutes to recheck the pH. Keep a record of how much you use, as well as your recipe, so you will know for next time how much to add in. If you adjust the amount of corn or water, you are going to have to adjust the amount of citric or backset you use.

I now keep a couple 2 liter plastic apple juice jugs in the freezer full of backset.

[BanjoInWA]

Thanks moose for the qwik reply... Which direction does the citric acid move the ph? (up or down) And what can be added to move it the other direction? I have a tendency to over think things and I hope this is not the case here. As soon as I get my enzymes I plan to do some small batch test runs (taking plenty of notes) before committing to a full 10 gal batch.

What a fun and never ending learning experience this is...

[moosemilk]

It's an acid, so down. Calcium carbonate or oyster shells from feed store can bring it back up. Typically, you won't have to worry about raising pH with most recipes.

Edit: calcium carbonate may be listed as "precipitated chalk" at your brew shop. I have had a bag for awhile now and only had to use it on a rum once.

[woodshed]

Woodshed you mentioned that you would use a Ph meter rather than strips a few hundred posts ago. Do you have one that you recommend that is good and not break the bank?

I have been using a pen from Oakton Instruments called the eco testr ph 2. Their spelling. A division of Fisher Scientific I believe.
Anyway, keep em wet, calibrate often and they work great. I think around $30.00. I have spent a lot of money before and this seems to be the best bang. Any pen you buy is gonna be maintenance. Just another protocol. Great likker requires great protocol.
Every step, every time.

[Halfbaked]

Seems pretty reasonable price. Thanks.

[woodshed]

Thanks moose for the qwik reply... Which direction does the citric acid move the ph? (up or down) And what can be added to move it the other direction? I have a tendency to over think things and I hope this is not the case here. As soon as I get my enzymes I plan to do some small batch test runs (taking plenty of notes) before committing to a full 10 gal batch.

What a fun and never ending learning experience this is...

You do not want to chase ph but the above advice is good. Up and down, all this crap in your drop. Once you get some backset going and ph it then figure out how much, if any, you need at each step. Since you will be trying to get it down do as stated above and sneak up on it. Write the quantity down. Here's your baseline. With backset do the same. Let us know how it goes.

The question about which way the citric acid moved the ph could have easily been answered by your own research
DO some reading!

[warp1]

Woodshed...you're priceless (in a good way). Every step, every time....I need to start chanting that during mashing Thanks again for adding your experience here....can't wait to try your stuff

[Brutal]

I sent this as a pm then thought the answer might be good for more than just me.

"I finished and cleaned my steam injection attachment this week, and right now I'm cooking 50 pounds of cracked corn with steam. Going to use enzymes and stay pretty close to your recipe with the only exception being heating the corn and water together in the fermenter where I steeped them.

I'm hesitant to add the enzymes before I get it up to temp because I think the stream and the hot copper pipe might denature it over the next hour of cooking or two. What's your opinion on adding the enzyme now vs later?"

[Brutal]

Guess I'll try adding them early next time.. I went a little too high with my temp and while I'm waiting for it to cool down is gelatinizing like crazy. I kinda wanted to see that so I know it happened but the thrill is gone now.

[woodshed]

I was going to say your guess is as good as mine as I have never tried that protocol. I bet the enzymes will still tear through it.

[Brutal]

Good point. This is a little bit different way of mashing than you describe here. I'm probably over-doing it. So I had to add a couple gallons of water to it to get it to mix again, and it cooled it down enough to put in the Sebstar enzyme. It really does a number on that gloppy mess. I ended up cooling it down a little too much after that. The enzyme works a whole lot better when it's over 175 f. I steamed it back up slowly to 185, mixing all the way. Then I threw a blanket over it leaving the steam rig in place (valve open and safety valve open of course) and left it for 2 hours and it only dropped 5 degrees. So I mixed it some more and Now I'm going to a fiends house for a while. Maybe when I get back it will be at 150 so I can start the next enzyme after adjusting the ph (lactic acid.)

Brutal's having fun!

[moosemilk]

Brutal's having fun!

Another seems to be joining the booners side of the force lol. I praise this stuff like HDNB praises UJ lol.

[woodshed]

Woodshed...you're priceless (in a good way). Every step, every time....I need to start chanting that during mashing Thanks again for adding your experience here....can't wait to try your stuff

Great in, great out. This applies to every step of the process. Water to how you run your still. Every time.
Damn fine hooch is easily achieved. If done so in a safe, responsible manner. Reasonable ABV, a protocol followed to the letter.
Then a tight aging protocol. This craft never gets boring. Always a new avenue to explore.

[Brutal]

Stayed out too late last night. Had to start it back this morning and didn't have as easy of a time.

This morning I mixed up my mash and the temp had fallen to 130 f. So I fired up the steamer and had it back to 150 pretty quick. Here's where I think I had trouble. I am testing the PH with these cheap ass strips from the LHBS, and either they are crap or its hard as fuck to lower the ph sometimes. As far as I can tell my PH was a little over 6 yesterday for the first enzyme. It worked good so I think that's fairly accurate. I added several teaspoons of 88% lactic acid trying to lower it to 4 or 5. According to my shitty strips it just barely changed it at all. Eventually I tried citric acid powder. After several teaspoons of that I still don't think the PH dropped enough. After this run I'll have some all grain backset and I believe that will work a lot better.

The iodine test never really cleared the way I'd hoped it would. I got it to the point it was a kinda light purple. I may be getting solids in my test samples. I should have done all this in the same day.. My original plan was to use less water than the total needed because I wasn't sure how much the steam would add. I thought I would just make it to too high of a specific gravity and then water down if necessary. I guess it doesn't really work like that. Trying to get a sample to measure sg was a challenge. I was able to do it but then the hydrometer had enough resistance to "hang up" while bobbing in the glass cylinder thing. I strained through a reusable coffee filter. I added a couple more gallons of water and I think its in the 1.060-1.080 range.

I can only estimate the total volume now. I cooked it in a big ass barrel about 60 gallons and it's about half full. I made a starter from some us-05 yeast I bought due to reading so many of Jimbo's posts. I think I may be experiencing a case of not only over-thinking, but over-reading-before-you-actually-do-anything.

All the thinking and stuff be damned. This mash is super sweet, and it tastes and smells absolutely amazing. I am going to pitch a quart jar starter of us-05 and another blister pack or two either tonight or in the morning depending on temp. Thanks to all the folks who post up about mashing for getting me this far. I think after some practice I'll work out a couple of kinks.

[MichiganCornhusker]

Stayed out too late last night. Had to start it back this morning and didn't have as easy of a time.

Eventually I tried citric acid powder. After several teaspoons of that I still don't think the PH dropped enough. After this run I'll have some all grain backset and I believe that will work a lot better.

I was able to do it but then the hydrometer had enough resistance to "hang up" while bobbing in the glass cylinder thing. I strained through a reusable coffee filter. I added a couple more gallons of water and I think its in the 1.060-1.080 range.

Ha, was following this last night and wondered what happened!
I usually let mine sit overnight after the high-temp enzymes, so no prob there. I agree that it takes me quite a bit to get the pH back down under 5 for the SebAmyl. When I uses lemon juice it seems like 1/2 cup to 4 gallons. I prefer backset, but takes even more of that. Also, I think it helps a lot to do the mashing with the full amount of water. I used to do it with less and I didn't get the conversions I get now when I use the full amount.
In fact, I am starting to think that more corn/gallon is counterproductive. As you add more corn, the mash gets a lot thicker and the pH keeps dropping. Neither of these conditions make for happy mashing.
I squeeze the post enzyme mash through a t-shirt rag and it gets clear enough to get OG.
Sounds like you got a fine batch started up, good luck, I predict great happiness.

[scuba stiller]

Using heat exposure instead of grits for improved yield.

Like many others, I had some trouble getting good yield early on with this recipe. The amount of goop sticking to the cracked corn reminded me that many of our esteemed Master Distillers often repeated something to the effect that, “you gotta cook the hell out of corn.” It should really be a thin soup after cooking. The main thing I do different from Booner’s and others is Keep the Corn Cooking. My yields have rocketed up from getting the corn hot and keeping it hot (a drill with a mortar mixer does all my stirring). Hope my adaption using equipment already on hand helps some others. Thanks to Booner and too many other Masters to enumerate here.

7 gallon boiling water (raise my well water pH to 5.6>6.5)
25 lbs. cracked corn
Add corn to water, stir. Re-light burner when water drops to 160 F. Stir.
Add SEBStar Alpha Amalyse (0.36ml X 25 = 9ml) Stir
Top 10 gallon pot w/water to fill. Stir. Keep pot full from here out.
Heat to 185 F. Turn off burner. Stir. Cover w/insulating blankets, etc.
Next morning, Stir. Re-light Burner, slowly bring temp up to 185 F. Stir frequently.
Turn off burner. Transfer beer to insulated cooler.
Stir hourly & check temperature.
At 148 F adjust pH to 2.8 > 5.5 range. Stir.
Add SEBAmyl – GL (9ml), stir.
Cover to maintain heat. Stir again after an hour.
Waiting overnight is best. Check SG (usually about 1.075 sometimes higher)
Strain to separate beer from corn.
Squeeze corn. I’m using my fruit press.
Sparge w/ 2.5 gallons HOT water. (sparge is usually 1.03 or 1.04 SG) Squeeze corn.
All beer in the fermenter, pitch yeast, airlock, wait.
Running the still is your own protocol.

For me, these are my steps, every time.

[MichiganCornhusker]

(raise my well water pH to 5.6>6.5)...At 148 F adjust pH to 2.8 > 5.5 range. Stir.

What do you use to adjust your pH up and down?

[scuba stiller]

I throw two level table spoons of Arm&Hammer in, that works for MY well water. Using the pH up chemicals for the pool seemed too harsh. On a side note, while teaching swimming to minions we often put large boxes of Arm & Hammer baking soda around the pool area to impress the Soccer Moms that we used only the mildest of chemicals.

pH down is either backset or citric acid. I've used several lime fruit from our babied tree. Fruit Fresh and other such natural preservatives work well also. It really doesn't take a lot to make changes to 12 gallon washes.

[woodshed]

Using heat exposure instead of grits for improved yield.

Like many others, I had some trouble getting good yield early on with this recipe. The amount of goop sticking to the cracked corn reminded me that many of our esteemed Master Distillers often repeated something to the effect that, “you gotta cook the hell out of corn.” It should really be a thin soup after cooking. The main thing I do different from Booner’s and others is Keep the Corn Cooking. My yields have rocketed up from getting the corn hot and keeping it hot (a drill with a mortar mixer does all my stirring). Hope my adaption using equipment already on hand helps some others. Thanks to Booner and too many other Masters to enumerate here.

7 gallon boiling water (raise my well water pH to 5.6>6.5)
25 lbs. cracked corn
Add corn to water, stir. Re-light burner when water drops to 160 F. Stir.
Add SEBStar Alpha Amalyse (0.36ml X 25 = 9ml) Stir
Top 10 gallon pot w/water to fill. Stir. Keep pot full from here out.
Heat to 185 F. Turn off burner. Stir. Cover w/insulating blankets, etc.
Next morning, Stir. Re-light Burner, slowly bring temp up to 185 F. Stir frequently.
Turn off burner. Transfer beer to insulated cooler.
Stir hourly & check temperature.
At 148 F adjust pH to 2.8 > 5.5 range. Stir.
Add SEBAmyl – GL (9ml), stir.
Cover to maintain heat. Stir again after an hour.
Waiting overnight is best. Check SG (usually about 1.075 sometimes higher)
Strain to separate beer from corn.
Squeeze corn. I’m using my fruit press.
Sparge w/ 2.5 gallons HOT water. (sparge is usually 1.03 or 1.04 SG) Squeeze corn.
All beer in the fermenter, pitch yeast, airlock, wait.
Running the still is your own protocol.

For me, these are my steps, every time.

Good job scuba!

[HDNB]

Brutal's having fun!

Another seems to be joining the booners side of the force lol. I praise this stuff like HDNB praises UJ lol.

I'm armed and dangerous now. two new bags of grain. new 200L fermenter. new mortar mixer. new mop pail. new yeast.

If i hadn't mixed the first booners lowwines with some infected barley lowwines, i'd be singing the praises already. but gotta start over now that i've made every mistake i could. Ive read the recipies many times over and pretty sure my biggest mistake was not stirring enough...and blending low wines.

[MichiganCornhusker]

I'm armed and dangerous now. two new bags of grain. new 200L fermenter. new mortar mixer. new mop pail. new yeast.

Dressed for success! Get some!

[moosemilk]

Get 'er done, HDNB! Even un-aged and without oak this stuff is something else. Let us know how it goes for you. I have a couple weeks holidays over Christmas, so bought 100 lbs of corn do do a bunch of this and some AG with rye malt.

Oh, this stuff is fabulous if you use it to make a bailey's recipe!

[woodshed]

Go HDNB. Working on another grain with this process. Booner's 2?

[brick]

So I posted a few weeks ago about setting up a 10 gallon mash to make Booner's for the first time. Let it ferment at 70 - 75 F for 10 days, then crashed it at 55 F for 3 days more. Beer tasted great- really corny in a good way. Fermented dry and cleared well. Abundant corn sediment reduced recovery somewhat, so may increase mash vol to 12 gallons next time to be able to recover and run about 10 gallons.
Charged my 13 gallon boiler and ran it through my 3 inch pot still head with Liebig condenser. Collected 400 ml foreshots dropwise, then began collecting heads at slow broken stream rate. Ran at about 9 min per pint produced, which is about par for my rig. First 5 pints- heads tasted pretty hot, with notes of acetone and ethyl acetate. Hearts were smooth and tasty, with deep sweet corn flavor very pronounced in pints 7 and 8. Tasted fantastic! Continued to collect 18 pints total. Jar 16 and on had slight phenolic taste (not experienced with previous wash recipes like UJSSM, corn flakes or rye read washes). After airing out and tasting diluted fractions, ended up pooling pints 6-16 for just over a gallon of 100 proof.
This whiskey is delicious. I pulled aside a fifth to drink white, and I am oaking the rest.
I wonder if anyone else has tasted a phenolic flavor in the early tails of this all-corn, or if it's a flaw in my fermentation method. Maybe I should have not let it ferment so long.... Anyway I will be making this again soon and I'll run it sooner. This is inexpensive to produce and very flavorful.
Thanks to Woodshed and Pintoshine for teaching me how to make this one.

[Fills Jars Slowly]

I just mashed in my first batch of this recipe using 25 lbs of cornmeal in 14 gallons of water. I picked up a 25 lb bag of yellow cornmeal at Restaurant Depot on a whim, after seeing some recipes using it in place of cracked corn. First time using the SEBStar, and I was astonished. This is a no-heat after the corn hits the water type recipe, so the corn is mixed in to the water at a high temperature. With a fine grind cornmeal theres nothing like 200F+ water to make it ball up and generally refuse to cooperate with efforts at homogenization. I worked it over with my paint-mixer-on-a-drill style stirring device, and got most of the clumps out at which point it quickly turned to something resembling bright yellow freshly poured concrete. With the temperature of the mash now down below 195F, I applied 10ml of SEBstar while stirring.

Holy Effin Shite! That concrete turned to soup within 5-10 seconds, with the only thing stopping it going faster being the rate my drill stirrer could get it into contact with the mash. Once it was worked in, my drill stirrer sucked a vortex of swirling mash down into a funnel shape just like it would water, and every last lump in the mix disappeared as the texture became that of a creamy smooth soup. I can really see how it would instantly thin the mash if put in the strike water, but with this recipe I assume bringing it to a boil or near boil before putting in the corn would denature even the hi-temp enzymes. Literature mentions 195F as a temp to put them in. Either way, they work so fast that it is a non-issue except for the brief struggle with thick porridge on the initial mash in before adding the enzymes.

Here's a thought, my brewing software (BeerSmith) is excellent at predicting strike water temperatures to achieve a certain mash temp for a given addition of grain. It says that if I take 14 gallons of water to 195F, then dump in 75F cornmeal, I get a mash that is 185F or so. That seems like it is above the gelatinization temp of the corn and hot enough to pastuerize things. hmmm? Maybe next time.

The mash is now sitting in a stainless steel tun with a lid and the temperature one hour in is rock solid at 192F, right where it settled after dough in. My original plan was to let it cool naturally and put in the SEBAmyl after a few hours once it got to about 145-150, and then let it sit overnight to reach pitching temps. However, it looks like this stuff is holding heat so well, I might have to actively cool it if I want to add the SEBAmyl before bed time. I am halfway wondering whether to let it sit overnight instead, then add the second round of enzymes early in the morning and let those sit a few hours at temp before cooling to pitch if need be.

Awesome results so far. I have done enough mashing to know that this will be much more efficient than my cracked corn efforts. With that fine grind there is no place for the starch to hide, and the enzymes do their thing well and quickly it seems. It makes me wonder how necessary the longish mash rests I am using are, but I guess experimentation and reading will fill in the blanks.

[moosemilk]

I had one infection with this stuff. Still ran it and turned out good though. But the one time I got an infection was also the only time I let rest overnight after adding the sebstar and then the sebamyl in the morning. May not have been the cause...could have been my mash paddle wasn't properly sterilized or what not. Just an observation.

[Fills Jars Slowly]

Good input moose. I too had an infection once when I failed to actively cool a mash. Since I posted last I stirred the mash (1.5 hours in) and after that it settled at about 177F. I think I will take it down below 150F and add SEBAmyl and then decide from there whether to sleep on it or make it a late night. When I stirred I took a sample (hygenically! with Star-San dripping everywhere!) for pH and gravity. pH is 5.8 and gravity is Brix 15 (I use a refractometer) which is equivalent to a gravity of about 1.06. My guess is that the SEBStar did a lot of the heavy lifting within minutes, and all the rest is to get whatever else is available.

[woodshed]

Love to see how people are taking this recipe. Strike temp is dependent on so many factors. My numbers are what work for me at our altitude and protocol. Great thing about a recipe is how many variations are to be interpreted. Love the direction this thread has taken. So much to be learned. By all of us.