Question on freeze distilling.

[bellybuster]

My point exactly

[Bagasso]

Other points came up.

[bellybuster]

Priceless

[Bagasso]

Priceless

Do you have something to add to the discussion that developed?

If you take a look at the freezing points of ethanol and fusels it looks like, once the bulk of the water is removed, freezing might provide for better fractioning for some.

For example, there is a 26ºC difference between the freezing point of ethanol and isopropyl alcohol, while there is only a 4ºC difference in their boiling points, ethyl acetate has a 30ºC difference vs 0.9ºC.

I thought that was an interesting tidbit and might be worthy of exploration but it seems like for some the hobby should be kept within a box.

I have also been working with cold filtering fruit juices as well. I have gotten about 100ml of the clearest peach nectar and was thinking that using something like that to make a panty dropper would make it easier to calculate the final ABV instead of soaking the whole fruit.

[A74]

I must apologize to all the "old timers" that got involved in this question of mine.I'm not sure which side of the fence everyone is on,BUT I thank one and all for their remarks.To clear the air---I intend to mash and FERMENT into a wine,let settle and clear and then freeze.I've done this with apple juice and also made grape wine and froze.I want to do the same with corn flakes as well.This is the reason for my question.If I can't get what I want with this method then I'll try to distill what I end up with.I didn't post again until now because I really didn't expect this many replies .Some interesting reading,,,,,both for and against.THANK YOU ONE AND ALL !!!!!

[Bagasso]

No apologies needed.

I would guess that it is safe to say that you enjoyed the concentrated apple and grape wine? I really can't imagine what a cornflake wine might taste like, plain or concentrated.

I get the feeling, and please correct me if I'm wrong, that you believe that grain based products need to be treated differently than the fruit wines that you froze. While I'm sure there are differences I don't recall ever seeing anything that indicated that that is the case. People seem to be experimenting with barley, wheat and rye wines.

[A74]

I treat both fruit and grains pretty much the same.I let them ferment under an air lock after adding boiled water and sugar.Let it cool down and add pre-activated yeast and sit back and watch the bubbles flow.When the yeast dies I let everything settle out.Then I rack out to to a smeller container and freeze.When I lived over in Pa.,I BOUGHT a 5L jug of uncut,white shine with a fantastic "mild" corn taste and I trying to get that same or close to that same taste.I'm down to my last pint,so I'm getting worried.... Bob PS----I'm just experimenting,as I have a lot of time on my hands in the winter.

[Bagasso]

I meant that you went ahead with the apple and grape experiments without worring about cuts but took the time to ask about making cuts to the grain batch.

Just something that I couldn't help noticing. Experiment away.

[A74]

A word of warning to them that want to use corn flakes.I found out the hard way----leave a lot of room in your fermenter for expansion.They ,at least the ones I used,expanded about one and a half times their volume.Now I have to clean my ceiling above where I had my fermenter.Seems that the corn flakes absorbed the water,sugar water and yeast,and started to work.The flakes expanded and plugged the air trap I was using.BOOM__SPLAT !!! Isn't Learning GREAT. Bob

[ihatemurphy]

my second attempt at a distilled beverage was a rather large batch of applejack. i started with 15 gallons of apple juice. it was a good year for apples here in Colorado. i then brewed it completely dry. i then jacked the cider down to about 3 gallons. the resulting product is very strong with a definite concentrated flavor. i thoroughly enjoy my applejack however no cuts can be made without heat and as such i consume a lot of alcohols that are not ethanol or the fores. the flavor shows it too. their is a hard alcohol nose and "punch" up front when tasting. i will also attest to the large hangover if i go overboard and have too much.

[MisplacedTime]

I was thinking about using this technique to concentrate 15 gallons of wash into low wines that could all be distilled in one run through my 6 gallon still. Restated, my thinking was to eliminate three 6 hour stripping runs and accomplish the same thing via concentrating 18 gallons of wash into 6 gallons of low wines via crystallization and possible do one 8 hour spirit run. Obviously, this is a controversial topic, but I haven't seen a definitive answer one way or the other. The closest comment that applies to what I was wondering was the comment someone stated About it concentrating the acid in the solution and that worries me. Sure don't want my AG Bourbon coming out blue. If anyone has tried this with success or failure, please respond.

[Bagasso]

I was thinking about using this technique to concentrate 15 gallons of wash into low wines that could all be distilled in one run through my 6 gallon still.

I don't think that anyone has done an actual study of what can be done with freeze distilling. We all know that you can't make cuts but I have never seen how much the ethanol can be concentrated and at what temps or how much is lost to the ice.

My thinking was to eliminate three 6 hour stripping runs and accomplish the same thing via concentrating 18 gallons of wash into 6 gallons of low wines and possible do one 8 hour spirit run.

Stripping runs shouldn't be taking 6 hours each.

[NZChris]

Try it with five gallons. If you don't like the final product you can always put it back in with the rest for the spirit run.

My 5 gal strip runs are done in less than 2 1/2 hours from the time the heat goes on, and thawing 15gal of wash don't sound like a load of fun, so I won't be trying this for you.

[MisplacedTime]

Thanks for your input NZChris. Sadly, my still is very slow. Hence, my desire to find a more efficient method. It's my first build ever and I'm not positive why it's so slow. My thinking is that I need to upgrade the heat source from a 1300 watt hot plate. I use it because I brew inside, it's safe, and doesn't require constant attention. I received an oil-less turkey fryer for Christmas that I think I can convert to my heat source. It's basically a set of heating elements encased in a circular chamber designed to reflect the heat upon whatever is inside of it. If that doesn't work, I'll either find a 220 heating source or scratch the still and build a larger more efficient one, either a hot water heater system or a keg system.

[NZChris]

Can you put an internal element in it to get it up to temperature quicker? That's gotta be easier than trying to thaw gallons of wash. I use two 1500W internals giving me choices of 3000W, 1500W & 750W.

[MisplacedTime]

Doh!! That's an excellent ideal.

[Bagasso]

It's my first build ever and I'm not positive why it's so slow. My thinking is that I need to upgrade the heat source from a 1300 watt hot plate.

Did you bypass the thermostat? If not, then it is cycling on and off.

At 1300w it should take around 3.5 hours to do a 5 gal run, without the cycling.

[MisplacedTime]

Never thought of that either. Thanks so much for your input. That would definitely be the easiest and cheapest approach. Sadly, my set up takes 4 hours to get from room temp until the first drops begin to flow. I can't wait for my latest batch to finish fermenting so I can see the difference.