sweetfeed whisky

[S-Cackalacky]

It's been a long time since I read the entire thread, but I don't recall anything about cooking the grains. I think for the initial ferment, some folks might be dumping boiling water with the dissolved sugar into the grain and allowing it to cool to yeast pitching temps. But, for subsequent generations that wouldn't be the case. Spent grains are replaced, sugar is dissolved in hot backset, cool water is added to bring the backset/sugar mix down to a yeast friendly temp, and only then is it added to the grains and lees (containing live yeasts) in the fermenter. Cooking isn't part of the recipe.

About all grain sweetfeed - The Producer's Pride All Grain that I've used in the past consisted of cracked corn and whole oats and barley with molasses added. So, if you mix those three grains in equal proportions and add some molasses, you will have basically the same thing as the PP AG product - doesn't need to be milled. However, it is possible to do an AG mash of this recipe in which case you would want to mill all of the grains, including the cracked corn, then add the molasses after the mashing process. A few people have done this, but then that's not this recipe - this is a sugarhead recipe.

[Jo Diesel]

Has TSC changed their SF. I bought the bag that was shown on here and it said all grain. All grains are pulverized and pressed into pellets. Sucks up lots of water when you mash it and then turns into a pasty goo in the fermenter. Have run a few batch through still and comes out fine but a PIA to get grains and liquid seperate. I think I will be buying grains and molasses separate and blending and millin myself

[Kegg_jam]

Southern States has a similar mix. 'Textured'

I just use less of it knowing it's going to expand.

[Konrad Arflane]

Has TSC changed their SF. I bought the bag that was shown on here and it said all grain. All grains are pulverized and pressed into pellets. Sucks up lots of water when you mash it and then turns into a pasty goo in the fermenter. Have run a few batch through still and comes out fine but a PIA to get grains and liquid seperate. I think I will be buying grains and molasses separate and blending and millin myself

I bought two bags a week and a half ago...both were all grain with no pellets. Can you post a pic of the bag you got?

[Konrad Arflane]

I was trying to save a few bucks and buy bulk sacks but don't have a mill and the lhbs wants $1/lb to mill grains not purchased from them. Looks like I'll stick to ujsm (less than $0.50/lb) for now until I can buy my own mill.

Might want to consider an investment as follows: http://www.barleycrusher.com/barleycrusher.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

One of these (or something similar) is on my "to buy" list...

[Konrad Arflane]

Great thread. I've read most of it. At least enough to have forgot much of what I learned..

I'm making my first batch this weekend. As a newbie to disti work I'm in a habit of leveraging my knowledge of all grain brewing since I do know this subject fairly well. This has raised a question for which I couldn't find an answer.

I get that this recipe is not about mashing in the true sense because the grains are not exposed (crushed) and boiling water certainly will not result in conversion of any of the starches to sugars. Therefore, I gather the boiling water is for dissolving the cane sugar and extracting favors from the SF?

Anyway I remain concerned about using boiling water because temps above 160*F will flush tannins from the grains and this isn't generally a desirable thing and would not expect it is something desired in the wash. Because of this I plan to limit my water temp to 160*F.

So my question is... is there some aspect of using boiling water in the wash prep that I'm missing? Is it important for some reason or do some of you use water at lower temps to prepare your wash?

Cheers, Sudz

I'm making inferences here. That being said,

If temps above 160F will flush tannins from the grain that would influence final taste (not a brewer, so not familiar with that chem process...would like to hear more?) and given the only purpose of adding the hot/boiling water is to dissolve the sugar and bring out flavors from the grain, it shouldn't make a difference using 160F water, as opposed to 212F water (apart from that tannin extraction).

The question then becomes, does that tannin extraction at the higher temp add to, or detract from the final spirit flavor profile.

But, given the 212F water is really only part of the initial (1st Gen) batch...hot backset used in subsequent gens, cooled appropriately before added to the yeast bed, I'm going to infer that base temp is really only critical to the 1st gen, possibly the next 2 or 3 as those tannins are diluted in the follow up processes...

I would like to hear more of that tannin production process though...do you have a link to it/how it works?

Thanks!

Edited to add, I understand the 160F mark is substantial in mashing...and I am curious as to how a boil temp could affect a non-mashed product...

[Sudz]

I don't have a link but in the brew mashing for beer using all grains, temperature control is critical for developing the mash. In a brew mash it's all about converting the grain starches to sugars for fermentation. The process yields either fermentable sugars or non fermentable sugars based on the temperatures the crushed grains were exposed to. One controls the sweetness or dryness of the final product in this manner. When the mash process is complete, one then flushes the wort (wash) from the grain using water at a temp of not more than 160*F. Brewers do not exceed this temp because at higher temps the hot water extracts tannins from the grain husk and this introduces a bitter tasting component into the wort. This is rarely a desired thing so it is generally avoided when making beer.

Having said this, I have no experience with disti mashes and maybe this isn't a concern or possibly is actually desired?? The initial recipe for the SF had 2 gallons of boiling water added to the SF and sugar. This will definitely extract tannins from the grains but.. is this a problem? I have no idea. So one can choose not to release tannins by not exceeding a water temp of 160*F, or ignore the tannins and use boiling water. I suspect boiling water was used by KS simply because that was what he had heard or has done in the past. Boiling water would dissolve the sugar easily and would I imagine, extract the maximum from the SF for favor components. Maybe the tannin is there for the ride but doesn't pass through the still??

Aanyway, this is the basis of my original question.

[Sudz]

Has TSC changed their SF. I bought the bag that was shown on here and it said all grain. All grains are pulverized and pressed into pellets. Sucks up lots of water when you mash it and then turns into a pasty goo in the fermenter. Have run a few batch through still and comes out fine but a PIA to get grains and liquid seperate. I think I will be buying grains and molasses separate and blending and millin myself

This has been a challenge for me as well. I spent several weeks trying to track down a suitable SF to run with. I discovered Tractor Supply carries many similar yet different SFs. Someone on here actually provided the actual SKU number for the one we want. It comes in a brown paper bag with purple printing. However, TS has a number of SF products in this same bag. The Producers Pride bag may identify "pellets" on the bag or not. These bags have a paper tag stitched onto the bag. The ones with pellets that I found actually stated pellets on this label. The correct one does not list pellets on this label and the bag actually is labeled "All Grain". I believe I found four different products which looked very much the same. I used the SKU number (sorry, didn't keep it) to correctly identify the non pellet mix of SF from Tractor Supply.

Now in our area we have four different TS stores. No one had this particular SF. I used the TS website to search and discovered a TS in a small community about 50 miles from here which had plenty. Apparently this is a popular mix in the country but not of interest in urban areas. I suspect a urban store might order it in if requested but I don't know for certain.

Good luck...

[goblin]

sweetfeed is a sugar head not an all grain, which is mashed. in a sugarhead the grain is for flavor, i do not think tannins come into play. simple recipe, simple whiskey

[SassyFrass]

Folks been using sweetfeed to make likker for years. Some folks I knew get their water hot but not boiling. Just to where you can see the steam rising off the top, then add it onto their sweetfeed. I've also seen it done with boiling water and with cool well water. All seems to work. Some better some worse.
Some add sugar for more alcohol, I don't.
I buy mine from a local feed store and it's all grain, plus all the grain has been rough milled. No pellets and I can get the percentages of grains I want, when I'm there on grinding day. It's always good to have friends that run the mill.lol

[bellybuster]

Some add sugar for more alcohol, I don't.

How do you get anything to ferment? There is hardly enough molasses in the sweetfeed for a 1%wash

[SassyFrass]

If you're wife's cousin is a friend and he's the one doing the grinding(and owns the feed store) and mixing you can have a molasses heavy Sweet feed done up. But I gotta buy a ton at a time for stock feed.

SF

[Konrad Arflane]

How do you get anything to ferment? There is hardly enough molasses in the sweetfeed for a 1%wash

I believe he means 'more' than what the recipe calls for...

[SassyFrass]

Some add sugar for more alcohol, I don't.

How do you get anything to ferment? There is hardly enough molasses in the sweetfeed for a 1%wash

I kinda cook the sweet feed. It never comes to a boil. Just hot enough to see a little steam off the top. Stirred constantly or it'll burn. Working the coals and stirring are the big things. A couple hours will usually be enough to make it worthwhile.

I have never had a problem with having SF ferment. I've never checked percentages, SG, PH or anything like that, so I can't really comment on those. I do sweet feed the same way I was taught years ago.

I'd rather have less of something I like, than more of something I don't like.

SF

[goblin]

you must be using malted grains, or something to convert the starches to sugar. if you like it, i guess that is all that matters. i agree with BB.

[SassyFrass]

I've always used sprouted corn in the mix. But sitting here thinking about it...I am only getting about a 5% yield. 100 gallons of wash yielding 5 gallons of good sippin likker = 5%. So yep, the yield is real low. Probably lower than most folks would want. Now that isn't including the backins'/feints.

I learned a little different than most of the folks on this site. Now I'm trying to learn how to do it more uniform/scientific (maybe wrong terminology) and maybe get a more consistent and better product. A handful of X, a half bucket of Y, and a dash of Z doesn't translate well to cups, ML, quarts etc... This is one of the things I am going to be working on when spring hits and I can put together a few barrels of mash/wash.

SF

[W Pappy]

Even so Sass using a ag out it you should still be able to kick it up to 7% 8% without using sugar.You ever do a iodine test
to check conversion?

[SassyFrass]

No, I've never used an iodine test on any washes or mashes. It may go that high, because I'm only including keeper likker and not counting the backins'. The 5% is just a guesstimate. It could have been a little more or less. I usually do a sweetfeed run a couple times a year and this coming year I WILL be keeping notes and learning how to do some of the scientific aspects of our craft.

I've never shared my recipe with anyone but my son. Been using it for about 35 years or so. The sweetfeed recipes in the OP are a lot easier and quicker than the way I do it. I am also gonna try that this summer. Just for comparing.

[W Pappy]

PintOshine has some great stuff for converting starches to sugar in Ag batches check out his work.He has some stuff on youtube.

[Antler24]

Just curious here.
I do 3 (12g) stripping runs then combine for a spirit run. That's 16lbs of SF and 16lbs of sugar per wash. If I were to buy the corn oats and barley seperatley, and make my 3 washes with each of the grains desperately, strip separately, and then combine it all for a spirit run,would I still end up with the same end product as the original sweetfeed whiskey?

[SassyFrass]

Just curious here.
I do 3 (12g) stripping runs then combine for a spirit run. That's 16lbs of SF and 16lbs of sugar per wash. If I were to buy the corn oats and barley seperatley, and make my 3 washes with each of the grains desperately, strip separately, and then combine it all for a spirit run,would I still end up with the same end product as the original sweetfeed whiskey?

Honestly, I have no idea what that would taste like. But I don't think you will get the same taste unless all the ingredients are spending the time in the fermenter together. Kinda like mixing all the stuff for stew together. The flavors all kinda mix together and enhance each other.
There are people on this site much more knowledgeable than I and they could probably give you a better answer.
Good Luck
SF

[Antler24]

Just curious here.
I do 3 (12g) stripping runs then combine for a spirit run. That's 16lbs of SF and 16lbs of sugar per wash. If I were to buy the corn oats and barley seperatley, and make my 3 washes with each of the grains desperately, strip separately, and then combine it all for a spirit run,would I still end up with the same end product as the original sweetfeed whiskey?

Honestly, I have no idea what that would taste like. But I don't think you will get the same taste unless all the ingredients are spending the time in the fermenter together. Kinda like mixing all the stuff for stew together. The flavors all kinda mix together and enhance each other.
There are people on this site much more knowledgeable than I and they could probably give you a better answer.
Good Luck
SF

I understand what your trying to say. A potato salad tastes much better if it's prepared the night before, rather than an hour before supper.

Anyone else have opinions on this, maybe I should start a thread in another area?

[S-Cackalacky]

Just curious here.
I do 3 (12g) stripping runs then combine for a spirit run. That's 16lbs of SF and 16lbs of sugar per wash. If I were to buy the corn oats and barley seperatley, and make my 3 washes with each of the grains desperately, strip separately, and then combine it all for a spirit run,would I still end up with the same end product as the original sweetfeed whiskey?

Honestly, I have no idea what that would taste like. But I don't think you will get the same taste unless all the ingredients are spending the time in the fermenter together. Kinda like mixing all the stuff for stew together. The flavors all kinda mix together and enhance each other.
There are people on this site much more knowledgeable than I and they could probably give you a better answer.
Good Luck
SF

I understand what your trying to say. A potato salad tastes much better if it's prepared the night before, rather than an hour before supper.

Anyone else have opinions on this, maybe I should start a thread in another area?

Other than as an experiment, I don't see the reason for it. It would overly complicate the process of doing generations. You would need to do each of the 3 ferments separately and manage each over ever how many generations you do. Just seems simpler to combine them from the git go.

[cuddy-boozer]

Just ran a batch of this. First batch. Made my cuts. Man oh man this stuff is good!

[W Pappy]

Pigs are a flyin hell hath frozen over, I have got my hands on some all grain sweetfeed.

[jmashspirits14]

Im just curious, I picked up a bag of sweet feed(thats what I asked for) and I asked them if it was grain or pellets because I didnt want pellets and they assured me it was grain. Well I get it home and it says super crunchy on it(doesnt say sweet feed anywhere) and has 50% pellets in it along with all this crap, crude protein, crude fat, crude fiber, calcium, phosphorus, copper, selenium, zinc, vitamin a, vit d, vit e, grain products, plant protein products, processed grain, by products, roughage products, molasses products, vitamin d3, vitamin e, vitamin b12, riboflavin, pyridoxine hydroxhloride, folic acid, biotin, thiamine, calcium carbinate, salt, dicalcium phosphate, manganous oxide, ferrous sulfate, copper oxide, magnesium oxide, zinc oxide, ethylenediamine dihydriodide, colbalt carbonate, potassium chloride. I have the feeling this is not what I need for the sweet feed recipe?

[FullySilenced]

aaaaaah Nope... feed that to the goat your about to get ...

[W Pappy]

Yea dont use that!! all grain is just that all grain no pellets and don't feed it to sheep it will kill em they cant take the copper.

[W Pappy]

Tell them you got a damned old pony and the sum bitch wont eat pellets he will only eat all grain.
my pony's name is Pedro HA.

[jmashspirits14]

Son of a bitch! It fgures, I can ever get anything around here. I have chickens, I wonder if the chickens can eat this crap. Its says its for horses. Does anyone know if Tractor Supply Company carries what I need? I have a tractor supply and they said they have sweet feed but thats what the guy told me that sold me this useless garbage! Nevermind, I found the info on here. Says that the all grain sold by tsc is the right stuff, damnit should have just drove the extra 30 miles to tsc. Apparently it has barley, corn wheat, oats, and is sprayed with a liquid molasses.