Rye Whisky Plan of Action

[gogaston]

Hello everybody, this is my first "real post" where i am trying to generate some conversation. I have been doing a lot of reading and if my boss had the ability to track what i was doing doing my work day he'd probably be hoping that i was trying to sell interactive multimedia to some craft distillery! Throughout my reading i have found that a lot of guys posted about their progress and have been given quite a verbal lashing for not discussing their plans first, as this could have saved them from the faux pas they got into in the first place. Soooo, here i am. vulnerable. and ready to absorb as much knowledge as i can.

As i mentioned in my introduction post I have been brewing beer for years and am pretty comfortable with AG mashes. I would like to pick up where my skills have left me with an AG rye whisky mash following pretty close to George Washington's recipe (http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 11&t=17514).

*edit - i've modified the recipe from 60% rye 35% corn 5% barley to 20% corn and 20% barley because i read that in order to achieve a higher conversion the grain bill should consist of at least 20% barley.

My goal is to produce a mash with a starting gravity of 1.050 using 10 pounds of grain and producing 5.5 gallons of beer after sparging.

Grain Bill
6 Pounds of Flaked Rye
2 Pounds of Flaked Corn
2 Pounds of American Pale - 6 row Barley

I am assuming a 75% efficiency and a 72% yeast attenuation that would leave me with a FG of 1.014 (ABV of 4.72)

The excited boy in me wants to dump a bunch for grain in this to boost my ABV into the 6%-7% range but the wisdom of this forum is keeping me restrained.

I'll be distilling this with my Clawhammer Supply 5 gallon still which has had a water run, vinegar run and sacrificial run.

Any thoughts or suggestions before i move forward with this would be welcomed! Thanks guys and I appreciate the direction given so far through all the reading!

[scuba stiller]

The flaked corn will allow for ease of cooking. I don't see a problem with your grain bill. How about what you are planning for "cuts"? If you are ready, set her up and make a drop. Stay safe and have fun.
Edit: Removed an answered question.

[gogaston]

Thanks scuba stiller. I have not started this at all yet. still about 2 months before i buy the grain. I wanted to try UJSSM as a starter and wanted to get the benefits of the sour mash through 4 or 5 mashes. I just love me a rye whisky and have visited Washington's distillery at Mt. Vernon a few times. Ever since going there as a kid I wanted to replicate it.

I honestly don't know how to plan for cuts yet. the advice that i've been gotten so far is to start out by cutting as often as reasonable until you develop your nose and taste.

I have installed a thermometer on my boiler and at the top of my column and will use a proofing parrot that i made to measure the ABV when i make cuts. I would like to approach this very scientifically and record my absolutes (temps and hydrometer readings) along with my subjective observations (aroma and taste) as i make my cuts. Hopefully this method will lend itself to a solid learning curve.

[dstaines]

You will have a hell of a time sparging that grain bill, unless you add a lot of rice hulls. Even then, well... good luck. Barley is about 20% hull by weight, which both the corn and rye lack. So you would need to add at least 1.6 lbs of rice hulls to that bill (8lbs * 20%) just to have a shot at it on paper, probably better off with 2. I definitely do a multistep mash schedule with a protease rest and a betaglucan rest with that much rye, that would help some too.

Still though most folks here avoid sparging the corn... because it sucks. You may be a lot happier if you ferment on the grain. Washington certainly did It will be a lot easier to get your grain to drain at 1010 gravity than at 1050. No harm will come to your spirit from the tannin extraction like it would with a beer, so fermenting on the grain is A-OK, as is squeezing the hell out of the bag.

[gogaston]

good point dstaines. I've never worked with rice hulls. I figure i wouldn't need to add them if i fermented on the grain. I'm not sure if i have a fermenter larger enough to accommodate all the liquids and solids.

[3d0g]

Fermenting on grain is a good plan with corn and rye. Pick up one of those monster 8 gallon plastic fermenters for wine at the homebrew store. If you've got the ability to step mash, give a 110F beta glucan rest serious consideration as well. If you can shoot for 6 gallons of beer, you should strip 4, and then do a spirit run diluting those low wines with the remaining 2 gal of beer.

Oh, grab some Fermcap-S at the homebrew store too. Rye foams up like a mofo.

[corene1]

You may want to check the diastatic power of the malt you are using. You will need a minimum of 300 points to convert 10 pounds of grain. If the diastatic power of the malted grain you are using is under 150 points per pound you will have to increase it a bit.

[Twinrivers]

Get a 20 gallon Rubbermaid Brute from tractor supply. They are food grade and you can probably double your batch and get 2 runs out of it.

[HDNB]

I honestly don't know how to plan for cuts yet. the advice that i've been gotten so far is to start out by cutting as often as reasonable until you develop your nose and taste.

make your fractions at 100mL or less on a smaller than 5 gallon charge. it may be a lot of jars in the herd when your done, but selecting your cuts for keepers and feints will be easier on smaller fractions.
read kiwistillers novice guide to cuts a few times, it's a great guide, and will adjust your palate quickly. (like a year or two)

[gogaston]

Thanks for the suggestions guys! I'm about 2 months out before i move into this recipe. I'll keep everyone posted about the progress. until then several batches of UJSSM should be a good introduction. slightly less blow to the wallet through the learning curve.

[Braz]

Since you are going to do a few UJSSM washes anyway, consider substituting half the corn with cracked rye for a pretty passable faux rye whiskey.

[gogaston]

Good call Braz. I'm not looking to sell this stuff. It's just for my own enjoyment so why not add a little rye! Thanks for the suggestion!

[Bob Loblaw]

Good call Braz. I'm not looking to sell this stuff. It's just for my own enjoyment so why not add a little rye! Thanks for the suggestion!

I'm a big rye fan as well. Only caveat I'd put on that is that rye costs about 5x what corn does. At least malted rye vs. feed corn. I can get a 50 lb bag of feed corn for less than $10, whereas the same quantity of malted rye is $50. Flaked rye is even more, IIRC. Given you don't really ferment the grain in UJ, I don't know that I'd spend the extra $.

I just ran my first AG using the PVW grain bill (51% rye malt, 38% corn, 11% barley malt). Definitely save the backset from your UJ to add to your first AG mash. I don't know that you will need riice hulls if you ferment on the grain. I strained my out with a paint bag and probably lost less than .5 gallons out of a 6 gallon batch. Also, the diastatic power of Rye malt is quite high (105) so you've got plenty of enzymes to convert in your recipe.