Cotron wrote:Yeah, if I wasn't sure about it before, that guys' pictures convinced me. The crazy thing is that he's selling that as something that works as both a condenser and wort chiller. I have no idea who's buying.
I dont see anything wrong with the idea. A coil in a bucket can have the same issues. That doesn't make them a bad idea.
It should work just fine and 3/8" is only unsafe if you distill on the grain. It's up to the stiller to know his equipment and it's limits.
I agree that in theory it should work fine. That's why I was originally thinking of doing it. The problem with the idea, which I think was confirmed by this guys' attempt, was that everything has to be pretty carefully constructed so as not to kink, put too much pressure on certain bends, and especially to maintain a nice smooth downward slope. I think a custom built frame to hold the coil in place and using wider diameter tubing would solve the problem. It's just too much work for an unnecessarilly long liebig/overengineered counterflow wort chiller.
I will agree that his stand is really nice. I wouldn't mind that setup for brewing.
Cotron wrote:The problem with the idea, which I think was confirmed by this guys' attempt, was that everything has to be pretty carefully constructed so as not to kink, put too much pressure on certain bends, and especially to maintain a nice smooth downward slope. I think a custom built frame to hold the coil in place and using wider diameter tubing would solve the problem.
That 's not a problem, it's the norm, no matter how you build.
It's just too much work for an unnecessarilly long liebig/overengineered counterflow wort chiller.
It's something built to do double duty.
ETA: I'm not sure I follow how it would be "too much work".
A straight liebig is pretty easy to build. A coiled counterflow chiller is easy to build. Something that works for both is harder than building the two separately. That's what I mean. Im not saying no one should do it. Just that this guy didn't pull it off and that I'm not going to try. Let us know if you do build one properly, I'd love to see some pictures.
Cotron wrote:Let us know if you do build one properly, I'd love to see some pictures.
I dont have a use for a wort chiller so no reason for me to build one but my thinking was that if I built one then I would already have a liebig. It can't get easier than that. I'ts a 2 for 1.
Everything being brought up by others is nitpicking bs. A bomb, packpressure and slope? The first two don't even apply, the outlet is open to the atmosphere and the slope is something that every coil user figures out. There is nothing hard about it.
Bagasso wrote:
Everything being brought up by others is nitpicking bs. A bomb, packpressure and slope? The first two don't even apply,
Hows that? If that kink at the top clogs up with shit, that tank is very much a bomb. THere's no pressure relief valve on it. Its a 3/8 line pinched in half, whats that make it 3/16ths? Water expands 1600 times going to vapor, and then youre cramming that through an opening measured in 16ths of an inch? No thanks.
Jimbo wrote:Hows that? If that kink at the top clogs up with shit, that tank is very much a bomb. THere's no pressure relief valve on it. Its a 3/8 line pinched in half, whats that make it 3/16ths? Water expands 1600 times going to vapor, and then youre cramming that through an opening measured in 16ths of an inch? No thanks.
The kink in that particular set-up is not by design. A kink in a coil in a bucket would be the same, that doesn't mean the basic coil in a bucket design is a sure way to a bomb.
True enough, I used one for years myself, and there is an easy solution to possibility of a restricted outlet due to small worm coil diameter. Drill a hole in the top of the tank and stick a cork in it. The cork will blow if the coil clogs.
At the end of the day tho, the leibig is one of the best changes Ive made to my setup. If someone is building from scratch Id be hard pressed to recommend a worm.
Coiled design looks pretty..
Anyway, i would say a straight Liebig is easier to build and clean.
I can make one with some copperpipe and fittings within 15 min. Heating and soldering would take the most time.
A coiled one would take a lot longer..
Jimbo wrote:At the end of the day tho, the leibig is one of the best changes Ive made to my setup. If someone is building from scratch Id be hard pressed to recommend a worm.
I could see why but the idea here was to pull double duty.
Just before hitting enter a thought occured to me, why can't a straight liebig be used to chill wort? Might have to control the flow to make up for the reduced surface area but it should be possible.
Remember, you're trying to shove a vapor into a long tube. Compressible flow behaves different than incompressible flow; like wort or water. Compressible fluids (vapors) will tend to accelerate as friction cause the pressure to drop through the tube. As the pressure drops, the density decreases and the flow will go sonic, thereby choking. When that occurs, you can no longer shove more vapor through the tube with the same input pressure. The only way it will increase is if the input pressure increases.
So, if you're putting heat into the boiler and it is producing vapors, as the vapor rate increases, a long skinny tube will choke and limit the amount of mass throughput. This will in turn cause the pressure to build in the vessel as the heat input continues to convert the liquid to steam (or hot alcohol vapors). But as the pressure increases, so does the boiling point...and the temperature of the wash will increase..again until saturation temperature is reached.
This won't be a step-wise process. It will occur continuously. Pressure will build within a closed, unregulated boiler. This is the bomb...and not in a good way.
And the outlet tube will likely start to whistle. That's the sonic flow of hot vapors out the tube. Have your ever heard a teapot whistle? Same thing.
I constantly talk (caution) about vapor velocity in condensers. This is why.
Slowing vapor flow in a condenser will help condensation by two factors: 1) the deceleration of the flow velocity will increase contact time with the condenser walls and transfer more heat to the cooling fluid, 2) the deceleration will cause an increase in static pressure and the vapor density will increase. As it does, the static pressure will rise above the vapor pressure of the alcohol at that temperature and it will condense. When it initiates condensation, it will liberate heat to the condenser walls via conduction and the process will continue.
Too fast of vapor flow aggravates this natural condition. So, don't use a small condenser tube. Or better yet...use multiple tubes, i.e.-shotgun condenser.
ss
still_stirrin wrote:So, if you're putting heat into the boiler and it is producing vapors, as the vapor rate increases, a long skinny tube will choke and limit the amount of mass throughput.
