My quest for wild yeast

[MDH]

Smell and taste seems to be fruitier than the same wort that used bakers yeast.

Just wait until a week after fermentation has finished

[thumper123]

I don't know if this is applicable to distillers, but I know of a few breadmakers around here who have gathered the yeast that forms on the stumps of fresh cut aspens.

[jedneck]

Gonna pitch it into 35 gallns of malted corn, malted white wheat and rye in the morning. Added a gallon of wort to wake the yeasties up. Up to a six gallon starter.

[jedneck]

Ferment is popping right along. Almost has a peaty scotch medicinal smell to it. Should be interesting.

[bitter]

Awesome! You need to save this yeast stain if it turns out really nice!

B

[jedneck]

Sittin at just under 1.01. Looks like a long nite Friday.

[ranger_ric]

Well Jed,
Iffin you get really brave I hear they are harvesting yeast off of wasps...

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/news/b ... 48846.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[jedneck]

Gonna pitch it into 35 gallns of malted corn, malted white wheat and rye in the morning. Added a gallon of wort to wake the yeasties up. Up to a six gallon starter.

Flavour good. Not sure it matches the flavour of this grain bill but it is still in diapers only been on oak for a couple weeks. Will check back on it in a few months.
Nose is different almost smells like you walked into a hospital.
Flavour is comparable to my dirty bastard when it was young earthy, corny, bisquits, and grassy that I hope mellows out in time.

[greggn]

How do you visually distinguish wild yeast from pollen ?

[MDH]

Wild yeast produces contributes to the waxy bloom on fruit. You will see it even when there is no pollen during fall.

[bearriver]

Wild yeast produces contributes to the waxy bloom on fruit. You will see it even when there is no pollen during fall.

I just mixed up cherry plums yesterday and let it sit for 18 hours so the wild yeast could play around for awhile before I pitched. The gas it put off smelled like paint thinner this morning but the wash/juice didn't taste any different. I remixed it to aerate and pitched a reliable yeast. Hopefully I'll have better luck next time... It's doing fine now and smells wonderful.

[MDH]

That smell is normal during the first days of fermentation. The yeast produces it while they grow in population. It won't harm the final product.

[jedneck]

Bear I had some pretty wild funky smells while I was building up the colony.

[cranky]

I agree the wild yeast on my apples made the pulp smell like turpentine for a few days but the ferment is going well so I let it run.

[Kegg_jam]

So I'm trying to grow some yeast from a Sierra Nevada six pack. I know you can buy ale yeast at any home brew shop.... Anyway, I just wanted to see if I could do it. So I combined the sediment from six pale ale bottles and made a low gravity yeast starter from DME. Got some activity on the next day and let it go till it cleared. Poured off the clear and it had a slight sulfur smell. Made another starter with some left over barley-corn mash I had stored in the freezer. It took off like crazy and is going strong but also has a slight sulfur smell.

Not sure if I grew the Sierra Nevada yeast or something else. The yeast cake is sure getting bigger but I'm not a fan of the sulfur smell. Don't want to ruin a good mash by being cheep.

[bearriver]

Bear I had some pretty wild funky smells while I was building up the colony.

In a effort to redeem myself, I now have a 55 gallon fermenter full of plums. The only ingredient on this one is the plums.

[cranky]

Bear I had some pretty wild funky smells while I was building up the colony.

In a effort to redeem myself, I now have a 55 gallon fermenter full of plums. The only ingredient on this one is the plums.

In my opinion wild yeast is too much of a crap shoot to risk a 55 gallon ferment, I'm only risking part of my apple to wild yeast and know that since the blueberry park had been around for almost 100 years the yeast there should be good. I would give that plum a good dose of D-47 or even 1118 if it were me rather than saying "COME ON SEVEN!!!!!!"

[MDH]

It's not a crap shoot if you have a pH below 4 and keep the ferment airtight.

Most plums are pretty acidic to begin with so he has nothing to worry about.

Commercial distilleries in europe have been using wild yeast without issue for centuries, and do to this day. Just keep your protocol tight.

[cranky]

Commercial distilleries in europe have been using wild yeast without issue for centuries, and do to this day.

But those commercial distillers are using fruit grown in well established orchards where a yeast colony can get a good foothold and dominate. They aren't picking from random trees where anything and everything can easily get to them. This is why I mentioned the Blueberry park which has over 3500 blueberry plants that have been there since the 1920s. The yeast in that park have had time to establish themselves as good yeast for the blueberry plants but because ( I believe ) Bear is not picking in a well established orchard it is indeed a crap shoot and and it is a lot of work to pick that many plums. In my opinion it is not worth risking a 55 gallon ferment without first establishing that the wild yeast is good. There is nothing wrong with commercial yeast, after all they have been harvested from wild yeast colonies because they were determined to be good and if you want guaranteed results it is the only way to go.

[MDH]

There are some issues with commercial yeast.

The first is that with commercial yeast you must use a "one size fits all" approach. In order to deal harsh conditions they aren't adapted to, the commercial yeast assimilate nitrogen in a different way, and when they eventually autolyze they produce nitrogen compounds that are fairly unpleasant. Because they need to assimilate more nitrogen to protect themselves, most of the time you'll need to add nitrogen supplement in the form of powdered dead yeast, b-vitamins or diammonium phosphate. The result distorts the tails and stops you from collecting further into them and getting those deep fruit flavors that many of the european distillers do.

Secondly, in nature, there are literally millions of different of wild yeast - all slight genetically different versions of a few strains, and among every 1,000 of them there is one saccharomyces strain that will begin to split and eventually dominate over the ferment after the first two to three days. Even then, the non saccharomyces strains in nature can reliably make up to 3-4% alcohol, which is enough to inhibit most pathogens and spoilage organisms. Because there are so many yeasts, there will always be at least some that are specifically very well adapted to the mash - in fact moreso than a chosen commercial strain - that will produce the cleanest taste.

Yeast is everywhere all the time. Don't believe me? Go to the farthest tree from a cityscape bearing fruit, which isn't regularly downwind from that city, pick a few fruit, crush them up with a bit of water, throw it in a ziplock bag and wait. I guarantee you will have an active, solid fermentation after 48 hours.

[cranky]

MDH I don't think anybody ever said anything about there not being yeast everywhere, all I said was it was too much work to pick and prep 55 gallons of plums to risk it with a wild ferment which is indeed a crap shoot, sometimes you throw 7 sometimes you throw craps. As far as supplements being required for store bought yeast I have never found it to be needed on any of my fruit ferments especially plum. Plums will be the most active, violent ferment with no need to add anything but a yeast that you know will consistently give good results.

[bearriver]

Honestly I'm a risk taker which should go without saying. Nature can have this one. If she gives me a good drop in return, then I will consider it that much more special. Shite it's already 1:30... Gotta go pick another tree.

[bearriver]

I understand that commercial breweries and wineries budget for a 10%-15% failure rate when using wild yeast, hence it not being popular. Luckily my gamble paid off. I picked those plums 3 days ago into a fermenter and mixed it with a paint stirrer. Nothing was added, but I did knock the cap down once per day. The ferment is somehow already dry. It smells and tastes great. Among a few surprising things that I can detect is a nutty flavor similar to gruyere and gouda cheese. It's a welcome addition that I really hope carries over and survives the aging process.

[cranky]

Wow Bear, maybe I need to get a sample of that yeast. I know plums ferment fast but 55 gallons in 3 days? That's amazing.

[jedneck]

My 35 gallon all malt bourbon went dry in under 4. But it wanted 85 plus ferment temp. Pitched at 80 and it rose to 85 and stayed there till done. Fermented in 67° basement. Most times my ferments stall due to temp with bakers.

[Steep-n-Rocky]

Jedneck, are you going to try to preserve the yeast strain for future use? If so, have you decided on a method yet? This is all intriguing as I have used DADY, Baker's, and some ale yeasts in the past and am always looking to try something new.

[jedneck]

I was gonna but it doesn't have the profile I'm looking for. Its good but to much of a medicinal hospital finish. I don't mind it but its not quite what I'm looking for. Might try it a lower ferment temp if I get time.

[jedneck]

Got another try at a wild yeast. I used a gallon of apple cider from the local orchard. Cap started to fall today after a four day ferment at 60°.
Grain bill was
15# chit malted corn
17.5# cream o wheat
4# dried cherries
Cooked with steam and converted with enzymes
OG of approx 1.06 I'll pull a sample tommarrow to get a SG reading to see how close to done it is.

[jedneck]

False alarm still fermenting. Haven't taken a gravity reading yet. I believe I will wait until the cap does fall. I know that at these low temps it might take awhile. But good things do take time.