Mashing Rye/wheat &6 row on the grains

CRACKERCREEK · Post by **CRACKERCREEK** » Sun Jun 21, 2015 4:06 pm

I am planning to mash the above on the grains. Because I will not be able to rack efficiently off the grains. Any tips would help on how to use the false bottom effectively wit out it getting clogged up. Or off the grains it is.

MitchyBourbon · Post by **MitchyBourbon** » Sun Jun 21, 2015 4:43 pm

Not sure I get your meaning. Are you trying to say you will ferment on the grain if you can't mash out properly?

Post by **ROD01** » Sun Jun 21, 2015 5:25 pm

rice hulls work well when I make a rye beer, the husks make the filter bed more porous and help prevent a stuck sparge.
Rod01

Post by **MichiganCornhusker** » Sun Jun 21, 2015 6:18 pm

Lots of ideas here for straining post ferment on grain, if that's what you're after.
Meet the ass-press.
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 15&t=54261

CRACKERCREEK · Post by **CRACKERCREEK** » Mon Jun 22, 2015 1:48 pm

Hey
I can't ever seem to get my false bottom to work for me when distilling. Works fine for brewing. I'll use a bucket (3gal) I have converted into a sieve that drains to a 6.5 gal bucket with screen and spigot.

30-06 · Post by **30-06** » Mon Jun 22, 2015 3:42 pm

I just completed some rye (21 lbs rye flake + 9 lbs six row + 15 g water). Made the recipe five times using a couple of methods to see if anything was easier than another and to up efficiencies. My false bottom effort didn't go so well and I used 2 lbs of rice hulls. Here are my notes from the effort...

- Add heat 10 g of water to 120' in blickman with false bottom. Heat source: gas/fire.
- Add grains, little at a time, mixing grains + rice hulls, stirring heavy to avoid dry spots. Temp dropped to 100'.
- Add heat to goal 120' for protein rest.
- That didn't work, temp fluctuating too much - hot pockets. Screw it. Smells like a bakery (awesome!)
- Add heat to goal 150' for sacc.
- Lots of temp fluctuating with hot pockets, very high spikes, afraid of denaturation. After stirring at 145. Close enough. Stop heat. Smells like burnt bakery.
- Rest for 1.5 hrs. Stir every 15 minutes.
- Starch test w/ iodine. Full conversion.
- Add 5 g of water to cool and promote drainage. Temp drop to 100.
- Doesn't not want to drain. Collected 1/2 g out of spigot. F! Sht! Color should be light, but is deep brown = scorched.
- Tried to promote drainage. Gave up. Too viscous. Transfer by hand.
- Bottom of boiler scorched. Minimal grains got below the false bottom, but the wash is too thick to take the heat directly. Like cooking gravy.
- All in brute to ferm on grain. Pitch yeast starter.
- Post-Op: This sucked. Rests/couldn't regulate the temp on the way up (slow down? add more water?). Scorching/still got it even with false bottom (add more water? slow down? f' rye). Draining/wouldn't budge even with rice (add more rice? add more water?). Conversion looked good. Temp good to pitch. Solid yeast starter. Should still produce.

...Still fermented fine and yielded up a tasty drop. The scorch resulted in a maillard reaction that brought some interesting flavors from that batch. This would be the only benefit seen from the use of the false bottom, otherwise it was more pain that it was worth. Rye is a unique beast that is not easily drained. You will likely need to come up with a method of forcibly separating the wash from the grains.

None of this may help you, I don't know, I'm not the bastion of answers, but maybe something in here will be worth your while. Best of luck.

Post by **jedneck** » Mon Jun 22, 2015 3:49 pm

There is always stripping with steam on the grain.

Post by **S-Cackalacky** » Mon Jun 22, 2015 4:17 pm

MichiganCornhusker wrote:Lots of ideas here for straining post ferment on grain, if that's what you're after.
Meet the ass-press.
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 15&t=54261

Look for the post by OBX Phantom. I think it's about the fourth post from the beginning. I made one of these for my first AG ferment and I can say that it works like a charm.

I work mine slightly different. My bottom bucket is a 6 gallon beer bottling bucket with a faucet. The sieve bucket is a 5 gallon HDPE bucket with a 5 gallon mesh paint strainer inside. I run a 5/16" clear plastic tube from the faucet to a 5 gallon plastic water jug. The 3rd (top) bucket is also a 5 gallon HDPE bucket (w/lid). I fill the top bucket with water for the weight. I put the grainy wash into the sieve bucket with the faucet open, and then set the water bucket inside the sieve bucket and just let it run. I usually put some additional weight on the lid of the top bucket to help it along - that is, I don't use my ass. I set the ass-press on top of two plastic milk crates for some height and the 5 gallon jug on the floor with the plastic hose running into it. I don't use the metal bar that OBX Phantom uses. The sieve bucket sits high enough off the bottom of the bottling bucket to allow good drainage, so I just pour in the wash and let it go.

Post by **MichiganCornhusker** » Mon Jun 22, 2015 6:01 pm

30-06 wrote:Rye is a unique beast that is not easily drained.

I did a 100% unmalted steam rolled rye once and it was a slimey beast. I ended up fermenting on-grain, then allowed it all to settle in carboys. I racked off the clear liquid and then added some water and mixed up the lees and allowed them to settle again, and then racked off that clear liquid. This will dilute your beer, but I felt like it was a way to rinse a little more goodness from the rye. Even after fermenting it was so thick and slimey that squeezing through a strainer bag was not an option.

CRACKERCREEK · Post by **CRACKERCREEK** » Mon Jun 22, 2015 6:39 pm

S-Cackalacky wrote:
MichiganCornhusker wrote:Lots of ideas here for straining post ferment on grain, if that's what you're after.
Meet the ass-press.
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 15&t=54261
Look for the post by OBX Phantom. I think it's about the fourth post from the beginning. I made one of these for my first AG ferment and I can say that it works like a charm.

I work mine slightly different. My bottom bucket is a 6 gallon beer bottling bucket with a faucet. The sieve bucket is a 5 gallon HDPE bucket with a 5 gallon mesh paint strainer inside. I run a 5/16" clear plastic tube from the faucet to a 5 gallon plastic water jug. The 3rd (top) bucket is also a 5 gallon HDPE bucket (w/lid). I fill the top bucket with water for the weight. I put the grainy wash into the sieve bucket with the faucet open, and then set the water bucket inside the sieve bucket and just let it run. I usually put some additional weight on the lid of the top bucket to help it along - that is, I don't use my ass. I set the ass-press on top of two plastic milk crates for some height and the 5 gallon jug on the floor with the plastic hose running into it. I don't use the metal bar that OBX Phantom uses. The sieve bucket sits high enough off the bottom of the bottling bucket to allow good drainage, so I just pour in the wash and let it go.

Seems like I'm using a similar setup to drain

MitchyBourbon · Post by **MitchyBourbon** » Tue Jun 23, 2015 3:46 pm

I have blichman kettles with false bottoms and a couple March pumps. They work great for beer or any all grain that uses a high percentage of malted barley. If I'm mashing mostly corn, rye, wheat or anything flaked, I don't bother with the false bottom. No amount of rice hulls makes any difference.

There are people here that have better luck than I just described, maybe one of them will chime in. If not, here are some options:

Ferment on the grain and squeeze the grain after fermentation is complete.

Ferment on the grain and siphon just the liquid off the top, no squeezing. This results in a nice clean charge but wastes a lot of beer.

Ferment on the grain and then distill on the grain. This is the easiest solution but requires special distilling equipment.

Squeeze the grain after mashing then ferment and distill.

Do multiple mashes, after each mash transfer everything into a bucket. Then transfer just the liquid into a fermenter. Now you have a bucket with spent grain, fill that bucket with the amount of water you need for the next mash. Give it a good stir then pour just the water into your mash pot. Mash as usual and repeat. On your final mash you can squeeze or whatever. This is what I do. I didn't come up with the idea but it works well for me as I prefer not to ferment on the grain and I prefer to have as little yeast as possible in my boiler when I distill.

If you find a better way I would love to here it.

srs787 · Post by **srs787** » Tue Jun 23, 2015 4:27 pm

Good advise from MitchyBourbon and most of the above. My mash bill is always 50% plus on malted barley with wheat and other grains. The crush from the roller mill plays a very important part in this also. Brewing beer my mill is set at 0.043, for crushing barley and wheat, but I have better yield for stilling grains at 0.047 to 0.049 when using flaked grains. Do not crush flaked grains, they are ready to go at mashing temps.

CRACKERCREEK · Post by **CRACKERCREEK** » Wed Jun 24, 2015 8:37 am

So it seems every other time I do up a batch I get some crappy smelling infection in the wash. Should I be boiling the wash prior to ferment? I have been boiling the water then adding the boiling water to the mashing cooler and letting it do its thing then adding it to the fermenter. In beer I usually re boil after the rest in the mash tun

srs787 · Post by **srs787** » Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:45 am

You might have sanitation problems in your fermenter. Boiling the wort-wash will help prevent infections, but your fermenter must be cleaned and sanitized also. Good luck

Post by **MichiganCornhusker** » Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:56 am

If you don't sanitize your wort after and AG mash you are sort of at the mercy of whatever might have come in on the grains.
I don't bring it all back up to a boil, but I've started heating my worts back up to 180F after mash to kill off most anything that might be in there.
Getting it back down to pitching temps with a wort chiller is good insurance too.

CRACKERCREEK · Post by **CRACKERCREEK** » Wed Jun 24, 2015 12:27 pm

I sanitize everything, I have assumed that the grains are dirty but the 200* F water should have killed anything on the grains. Unless it didn't stay at that temp for long enough. Stinks but should ferment out good enough I hope

Post by **MichiganCornhusker** » Wed Jun 24, 2015 2:33 pm

CRACKERCREEK wrote: I have been boiling the water then adding the boiling water to the mashing cooler and letting it do its thing....

CRACKERCREEK wrote: I have assumed that the grains are dirty but the 200* F water should have killed anything on the grains.

I'm not understanding. Are you mashing malted grains, or converting with some other source of enzymes?
Pouring boiling water on malted grains will denature all of the enzymes before they ever get a chance to do their thing.
Pouring boiling water on unmalted grains will gelatinize them, and sanitize them, but how are you then converting the starches?

CRACKERCREEK · Post by **CRACKERCREEK** » Wed Jun 24, 2015 2:34 pm

I use some liquid enzymes

CRACKERCREEK · Post by **CRACKERCREEK** » Wed Jul 01, 2015 5:20 pm

Question for ya!
SG was 12.5 BRIX
Now at about 10 BRIX I think I still have allot of sugar hanging around here. Could I re boil and add sugar and repitch some yeast? Or run what I got

CRACKERCREEK · Post by **CRACKERCREEK** » Wed Jul 01, 2015 5:21 pm

CRACKERCREEK · Post by **CRACKERCREEK** » Thu Jul 02, 2015 4:02 pm

CRACKERCREEK · Post by **CRACKERCREEK** » Thu Jul 02, 2015 4:05 pm

Runs ok but tastes like poison in a bad way! Like Heads on steroids smells ok tastes like rye. Showing 210F at the head and coming off at 40 proof

Home Distiller