lacto infection?

[smoCha]

Had to leave town in a hurry and left my UJSSM fermenter sitting without any sugar. After a week I returned to this mess of white substance across the top. Forgot how to post pics. Looks like mold, doesn't stink - mash still smells sour. I've read about lacto infection just never seen one. Any help is appreciated.

[likker liker]

Most likely time to start over. Even if you removed all of the funk and boiled to kill the rest of it, the damage is done. Clean Up And start over.

[Bigbob]

You might be able to run it. Lactos are welcomed by some, gives a new taste element. As long as it doesn't smell bad I say run it!

[Appalachia-Shiner]

I'm pretty sure that's what happened to the last batch of Malted Corn all grain. One night it was fine and the next day here's this white moldy lookin skim on top of it. I skimmed it off and ran the mash anyway. Tasted fine, but the yield was low.
Going to try another all grain with the Coon Proof batch of Malted Corn, if it is still OK when I get back to the hills n hollers. Had to go out of town with a family problem and it may dry up before I get back.

[S-Cackalacky]

Thank the distillin' gods and run it. Many here are purposely infecting ferments with lactobacillus. There is even a thread here to make a sour corn starter - http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... =3&t=46340 . And, a thread about intentionally infecting a wash - http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... =3&t=56303 .

[DAD300]

+1 S-Cackalacky............run it...

[smoCha]

Ok consensus is run it. Just to be clear......
1. Siphoned off the beer and made likker
2. Added backwash and water to the sour corn fermenter- no sugar
3.left it sit for a week + in the garage- here's where I'm at now
4.coxntacted HD
5. Added 15# sugga to the mix
So- 1. Let it ferment from here on out? I don't think the mash was fermenting when I opened it.
2. Is the yeast dead? I guess we'll know in about 24 hours.

Cackalacy - thanks bud. You are a guiding force. I'll do my reasearch

[likker liker]

Your guessing and everyone else is also Myself included because I can't see what you have nor can the others. not know what is growing in not just on the top of your mash. From what you've said this is just wet corn no sugar. Some of the most nastiest stuff can and will grow on wet corn. Look it up search wet corn.

[Steep-n-Rocky]

smoCha, make sure you let us know what you think of the infected wash after you run it.

[smoCha]

Well, it's bubblin.

[still_stirrin]

Well, it's bubblin.

Well, don't stick your head too close to it...you never know what's gonna' jump outa' there and CHOMP on you....

Seriously, experiment & learn something without being "spoon fed". You'll live through it!
ss

[smoCha]

smoCha, make sure you let us know what you think of the infected wash after you run it.

I don't think I like it. The yield was low but so was the sugar. It came out REALLY sour! Like sweet tarts sour. I cut 5 Oz at a time and it seemed like the heads never quit, but when they did the flavor changed immediately to something completely different. I don't know, maybe my brain needs it to be brown to understand the flavor, maybe it sucks and I don't know any better. There is a very buttery mouth feel, and some flavors I've never tasted in quick corn/sugar so it's definately a learning experience- however unscientific as it was.

For shit and giggles, I kept the corn and started another round. I did not use any back set for two reasons. It's sour enough, and the pH is already pretty damn low. Do you think the infection is still in there, or do they run their course and die? II've read all the threads and im still curious.

I proofed the SUPER SOUR to around 90 and put it on some wood chips. Think I'll leave it sit for a month or two and see if it changes.

[jedneck]

Whatch your ph also. Maybe throw a handful of crushed oyster shells into it also. Suppost to be self regulating.

[smoCha]

Just checking in, pulled a bit of this out for a friend's home brew party. After just a few weeks on oak chips this shit is awesome.

[rager]

After just a few weeks on oak chips this shit is awesome.

un aged likker will fool you a little when your first starting out after cuts. when im making cuts its all about looking for that jar to stop on with the heads. i know what im tasting during cuts will taste nothing like whiskey after its been aged. time does wonders. i would also look really hard into finding some proper american white oak thats been aged and use that. them chips may taste good but nothing compared to real oak sticks. just sayin

now try and leave some until christmas and report back in. also dont stop running or making ferments!

cheers

[raketemensch]

I keep reading 2 things:

1) "Always sterilize everything because you don't want to infect your wash/mash."
2) "Your wash/mash got infected? Lucky you!"

Is the avoidance of infections a leftover from beermaking? I haven't seen many (any, actually) stories where people had an infection and *didn't* love the result. I *have* seen stories of people collecting the infection and freezing it to use later.

This leaves me wondering why I'm going to all this trouble to keep all my utensils sterile all the time. I open my bucket to fill it, then don't open it again until the airlock is dead and things obviously aren't moving to get a gravity reading. I'm always wondering what's going on in there, but am afraid to open it up, because it might get infected.

I dunno, the two things seem mutually exclusive. And one seems much easier...

[yakattack]

There are thousands of possible infections. And only a small fraction are welcome.

There is one infection that if it takes hold your mash will smell like baby shit and not go away. Distilling it doesn't change it.

So if you get an infection and its a good one, then you basically won the lottery.

Sanatition is very important. Don't skip the steps. Just know that you really don't want a bad one. Yak

[S-Cackalacky]

This thread might serve to explain some of this - viewtopic.php?f=3&t=46340" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow . It's not the most scientific explanation, but it does give the impression that getting a good lacto infection is sometimes a flip of the coin. With Brendan's process you at least have some control over what you ultimately add to your mash/wash. There are other ways - like adding yogurt or buttermilk to a wash. The cultures used to make them are usually lacto based, but you still need to read the ingredient list.

Edit: Sorry about being redundant. I just noticed that I already gave that link in a previous post.

[Monkeyman88]

I keep reading 2 things:

1) "Always sterilize everything because you don't want to infect your wash/mash."
2) "Your wash/mash got infected? Lucky you!"

Is the avoidance of infections a leftover from beermaking? I haven't seen many (any, actually) stories where people had an infection and *didn't* love the result. I *have* seen stories of people collecting the infection and freezing it to use later.

This leaves me wondering why I'm going to all this trouble to keep all my utensils sterile all the time. I open my bucket to fill it, then don't open it again until the airlock is dead and things obviously aren't moving to get a gravity reading. I'm always wondering what's going on in there, but am afraid to open it up, because it might get infected.

I dunno, the two things seem mutually exclusive. And one seems much easier...

For distilling, being clean is usually good enough. If you're running a wash straight away, like within a week of starting it. There is usually not enough time for a bad infection to really kick off. Of course there may be exceptions. Some people get lucky with no infections, or good infections. I've been fermenting in an open top 200L barrel, never sanitised. Don't even rinse barrel between washes. Only had one lacto infection. Of course your mileage my vary.

[smoCha]

For the record, I'm pretty lazy about cleaning. And I peek at my wash all the time. The fermenter that had this infection had a loose top but I covered it with a sheet to keep the nasties out. I have since sanitized it and started over, mostly because the sour mash is like that friendship bread and I can't fire off batches fast enough to keep up. I will try again at the sour mash, and I bet I get the same fuzzy friends if I ferment in the same manner/environment, but I may try to control it a bit more this time. Still too sour, but when life gives you lemons......
Thanks again guys for all your help.

[pythonshine]

I would like to know what type of still you ran this out of. Does it really matter what still? From my research on stills it seems to me that a reflux still would strip this flavor away? Just curious...not sure if this should be here.

[rubber duck]

Pot still is the the method I like. I only go for seriose lactose infections on whiskey, refunds stills for nutral should do just that make it nutral.

I ferment whiskey in old wooden barrels and I if I'm going to clean them I use steam but I don't clean them often. Whiskey should be fermented nasty, it makes a better drink.

[pythonshine]

That was what i fingerd, altough i felt it was and an assumption one with more experiance could clear. Thank you R.D.

[smoCha]

I would like to know what type of still you ran this out of. Does it really matter what still? From my research on stills it seems to me that a reflux still would strip this flavor away? Just curious...not sure if this should be here.

http://moonshine-still.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
The pic on the top left of the home page above is exactly what I run. I have removed all of my own pics so it's the best I can show you right now. It's mounted to a sanke and fired with a turkey fryer. Almost always get around a gallon of keepers from a 10 gallon ferment. Most days it's around 150p at the start.

[pythonshine]

looks like and nice setup. Again i figured that a pot still was the method of choice.