Advice requested regarding all grain whiskey/scotch

[Shyrac]

This is my first attempt at whiskey. I have successfully run birdwatchers several times now, and had mixed results with an all panella rum. Now I am making two 5gal batches of what I hope will be somewhat scotch-like when they're done.

Batch A (The one I am having trouble with)
Strike - 5gal at 163 degrees and 7.1pH
Mashed 8 lbs of Fawcett Optic malt with 2 lbs of Simpsons peated malt for two hours.
Final mash temp was 160 with an SG of 1.052 and a pH of 5.7.
Pitched 5 packages of active dry bakers' yeast.

Batch B
Strike - 5gal at 158 degrees and 7.1pH
Mashed 8 lbs of Simpsons Golden Promise malt with 2 lbs of Simpsons peated malt for two hours.
Final mash temp was 150 with an SG of 1.058 and a pH of 5.3.
Added 1 tsp of CaCO3 and pitched 5 packages of Active Dry bakers' yeast.

I assumed B was a bit low on pH, and used the CaCO3 to remedy this, as I have had good results using it to fine tune my birdwatcher's pH to dramatically improve fermentation times.

Both batches have been maintained at 90 degrees for 48 hours. B continues to bubble away as expected, but A has completely stalled. I opened up the fermenter to see what was going on with A and found a significant layer of surprisingly dry grain congealed at the top (I am fermenting on the grain for both batches). I broke this up, and took new readings. I am down to 1.018 and a pH of 3.8. As B is still behaving properly, I did not open it to compare against what I am seeing with A.

I am tempted to toss a half tsp of CaCO3 into A and give it a mighty stir to see if it will come back around. Does anyone with more experience have an opinion on this?

[shadylane]

You can mix the two ferments together to restart batch A

[biker geek]

Most of the time there is no need to adjust ph after mashing. The post mash ph of a wort is typically just about right for the yeast. You are fermenting a bit on the high side.

[Shyrac]

A combination is not possible without acquiring a new larger vessel. Also, I only have a 5gal still. The plan was to combine them in the end though. I planned to strip each, combine the two batches of low wines and then run twice more.

Having never fermented on the grain before, what I found most alarming was the large mass of relatively dry grain. It was my understanding that this would settle at the bottom. I gave it a good stir and noticed quite a bit of out gassing once it got started, but hours later the airlock remains unmoved.

[shadylane]

If the fermenters aren't full, swap as much as you can.
In the past, I've had identical ferments where one of them stalled and the other finished.
I haven't a clue why this happed, but mixing them restarted the stuck one.

[shadylane]

I gave it a good stir and noticed quite a bit of out gassing once it got started, but hours later the airlock remains unmoved.

That sounds like the seal is bad on the fermenter.
Also the "a significant layer of surprisingly dry grain congealed at the top" is called a cap.
It's a good sign, active all grain ferments will have this floating on top.
Your ferment probably wont make it to 1.000 because there's always some unfermentable sugars in it.
Something like 1.015 to 1.003 is common

[Shyrac]

I gave it a good stir and noticed quite a bit of out gassing once it got started, but hours later the airlock remains unmoved.

That sounds like the seal is bad on the fermenter.

It's one of those plastic 6.5gal buckets, and the airlock had been going bonkers just like it still is with B. Those lids seal so tightly, I tend to doubt it would be leaking.

[shadylane]

Over the years I've seen at least a hundred questions or more about bubblers not bubbling.
And it's usually the lid leaking on the bucket.
From all the info you have given it sounds like the ferment is going good and almost finished.
But the bubbler isn't. Plan B is to have patience and wait for the ferment to finish.

[pulsetech]

Wait till the cap falls and run it. Sounds fine. I don't bother with bubblers just cling wrap the top of the bucket. Only takes a small bit of grain to hold up the lid in the groove and no bubbles .

[Kegg_jam]

My 6.5 gallon ale pail is the worst sealing of all my buckets.

[corene1]

If you mashed bucket A at 160 degrees you probably got a bunch of unfermentable sugars and your finish gravity will be high. Most convert their AG mashes at 148 to 145 to avoid the unfermentable sugars.

[S-Cackalacky]

At some point you said the PH was 3.8 and I don't remember reading that you corrected it. If not, give it a little CACO3 and see if that wakes it up. If it's just a leaking lid, try a bead of honey in the groove inside the lid. If it had a cap, I suspect that it was still working. Usually if it stops producing CO2, the cap will fall to the bottom.

[pulsetech]

I agree with Cack. The Co2 is what's holding up the grain.

[Shyrac]

Thank you all for the input.

I did elect for a 0.5tsp addition of CaCO3 to B, and upon checking today I noticed that much of the cap has fallen. The surface is visibly bubbling. I guess the extended maintenance of temperatures around 90 has caused the buckets to expand and lose their seal.

Next time I will shoot for a mash temp closer to 150 instead of 160. I noticed that B has a very powerful aroma coming off of it. How does the presence of these additional unfermentable sugars impact the taste of the final product?

[corene1]

Shoot for 148 to 145 for best results. In my experience the unfermentables won't affect flavor of the distillate but they will certainly affect the distillation process with additional foaming when the mash is brought up to a boil when distilling. Be gentle with your heat and leave some head space in the boiler.

[Alchemist]

Thank you all for the input.

I did elect for a 0.5tsp addition of CaCO3 to B, and upon checking today I noticed that much of the cap has fallen. The surface is visibly bubbling. I guess the extended maintenance of temperatures around 90 has caused the buckets to expand and lose their seal.

Next time I will shoot for a mash temp closer to 150 instead of 160. I noticed that B has a very powerful aroma coming off of it. How does the presence of these additional unfermentable sugars impact the taste of the final product?

It's pretty hard to mash too low from what I've found with on the grain. 140 is a great temperature for maximum conversion, but they keep on working even at room temperature.

As for your 1/2 tsp, I can't see that did anything at all. It's just too small of an amount. And AG bills just don't need. Especially with the peated in there. You have tons of buffer.

Do report back how it comes out.

[Shyrac]

I'm pretty sure I've made a bloody hash of this process.

After the grain had settled I started to siphon off the goods. The output still had quite a bit of clouding and some small bits of grain, so I dispensed into a large carboy. My plan was to let it settle, and then siphon it into the still. I poured the remaining mass from one bucket into another through a strainer to pull out the remaining grains, and then repeated the process to get the grains from the other batch. I have that strained fluid resting in another carboy for the same purpose.

When I came home from work today I noticed a white film resting on the top of the fluid in the carboys. This stuff has the consistency of whipped cream. I fear it is the product of an infection I may have picked up in the blundering process described above.

Has anyone encountered this before? I will distill it as planned to see what happens when I get home from work tomorrow, but I suspect I will end up with some funky tasting trash.

This fermenting on the grain business turned out to be much more annoying and messy than I expected it to be. Next time I think I will just treat it like my beer mashes and fly sparge the grains.

[shadylane]

If you think fermenting malted barely is annoying and messy, wait until you start playing with corn, wheat and rye.

[Shyrac]

After another round of birdwatcher's, I plan on using the 25lbs of corn I have with the extra 2lbs each of Simpson's and Fawcett from the respective 10lb sacks used in the current endeavor. I also have another 2lbs of red wheat to toss in the mix.

[shadylane]

Just a suggestion, if you want to advance your all grain education.
Research direct steam injection, enzymes, mop wringer, ass press and steam stripping.

[Kegg_jam]

Just a suggestion, if you want to advance your all grain education.
Research direct steam injection, enzymes, mop wringer, ass press and steam stripping.

Dang, that pretty much sums it up. Wish somebody told me that.

[jedneck]

Just a suggestion, if you want to advance your all grain education.
Research direct steam injection, enzymes, mop wringer, ass press and steam stripping.

Especially direct steam injection and steam stripping. Both will save you a big mess.

[Shyrac]

I'm afraid to Google ass pressing and steam stripping.

[shadylane]

Make sure you use the HD Google Search at the top of the page.
If you search those terms on the regular Google what you find might be embarrassing.

[jedneck]

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... =3&t=54434
Steam mashing
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... =1&t=53272
Steam distillation
I'll let you embarrass your self with ass press. But the two link I gave you you don't need ass press.

[Shyrac]

That's a bit hardware intensive for my current endeavors. I'm still just working with 5 gallon batches, but this is definitely something to consider if I ever decide to scale up.

So has anyone ever encountered that frothy white foam on top?

[Brutal]

If it's white spider webby looking shit, don't worry about that. Run it. If it's foamy, it might have started fermenting again. It can happen.

[Shyrac]

White spider webby shit hits the nail on the head. It doesn't stink like molds/infections I have encountered in mushroom production. Perhaps fermentation got a reboot when I strained and combined the two batches.

Hurray! I feel much less annoyed with myself for taking shortcuts.

[biker geek]

The white stuff is from Lactobacillus and creates fruity flavors in the beer. Most grain has some lactobacillus on it, so if you don't boil th wort you will get some effect. A healthy yeast pitch will hold it at bay until most of the sugar has been used. Your infection doesn't sound bad at all, and may give flavors you like.