Nuclear Whiskey / Nuclear Rum and Spirits Rapid Ageing

[rgreen2002]

So I just finished this posted opus...28 pages of gold. FS, not that you need them but just wanted to give you my thanks for the post and with sticking to your guns over a pretty big opposition in the beginning.
I was wondering... a while back you put a call out for a list of "recipes" (particularly the fruit Nukins). Did you ever get that list? Between the fruit and the candy recipes I think you have a fair number that would be great put together.

[BaxtersDad]

OK, I slogged through all 28 pages, afraid that I might miss something! Turns out I could have stopped after page 1, I kept waiting to read about some disaster that never happened! So I am giving it a shot tonight and tomorrow.

I am afraid that "garbage in, garbage out" will dictate the result of my first effort with nuking, which was a quart of SWF that smelled and tasted like, well, vomit. No need to elaborate, details are elsewhere. Still, this quart has now had three cycles on JD chips, the color is good, and we shall see tomorrow when we smell and taste whether anything else positive happened. If not, it is going down the drain, because I don't want to contaminate any other product I have going with this vile stuff.

I am more hopeful about the second trial. I ended up with half a gallon of heads from the 4 gallon spirit run for my Odin's Simple Gin (the gin is, IMHO, pretty dang good after a month of aging, I am drinking it right now). So IF nuking can reduce the "nail polish remover" character of my jar of heads, then I will be very impressed. If not, that half gallon will just go into another spirit run when I am ready to made more gin (wife and I are not a vodka people). That will happen pretty soon, since we head south for the winter after Christmas.

I also have a second batch of SFW and a batch of all grain, 6 lbs of malted barley and 8 lbs of cracked corn, that have both fermenteds out, which will get distilled early next wekk. I will FOR SURE try nuking both of these with JD chips. Stay tuned!

[FullySilenced]

i am watchin ya

[BaxtersDad]

OK, the early report.

First, I had half a gallon of heads from a spirit run for my gin. I collected the spirit run in pint jars, and the first three pints had a strong odor of nail polish remover, and the fourth was unclear but "iffy," so it went into the heads jar too. I combined them all in a half gallon jar, measured at 80% ABV. Strong mail polish remover smell, didn't see any point in tasting, just set it aside. So I nuked most of the half gallon without JD chips in shy one quart jars, four cycles each. The ABV measured this morning was down to 70%. I diluted an ounce to about 35% to smell and taste. No mail polish remover aroma remaining at all. Sweetness was main sensory perception on tasting. Not sure what I will do with this but I think nuking salvaged it from just being dumped into another spirit run, not that there would be anything wrong with that, so this was really mainly an experiment. Maybe the nuked product will work for a fruit liqueur base, or some other purpose for which we might use cheap vodka. We are not vodka drinkers, so it is not likely to to consumed that way, but I think it could be. For now, it is going to be set aside for a few months to see how it changes, and ponder what we might do with it. Conclusion: success.

Second, I had a quart of fairly vile SFW. Nuked most of it in a shy quart with 1/4 cup JD chips for three nuke / cool cycles. Now, it looks and smells like whiskey, no doubt about it. The taste is affected to some degree however by some remnant of the original objectionable taste (I had previously descirbed it as smelling and tasting like "vomit," more metaphoric than literal). The aroma is also a little bit off TDC as well, although as I say it now smells much more like whiskey than, well, vomit. It no long smells or tastes like vomit, and it looks and smells like whiskey, but does not taste, well, very good. I am not ready to throw it out now however since it is much better than it was before nuking with JD chips. It will get set aside a few months to see if it improves before it goes down the toilet. Conclusion: probable failure.

I am much more optimistic about how nuking with JD chips will work for the two batches I am going to distill tomorrow and the next day. I hope to have a positive report on that by the end of next week!

[FullySilenced]

Thanks for posting your efforts here...

FS

[Antler24]

I have a filling of ujsm that's about 9 months old now had it on 2 3/4"x3/4"x5" charred Hungarian oak sticks for 6 months and it still smells and tastes like lumber. Not sure what happen there. My 6 week old ujsm that's been on same size charred white oak 1 stick per quart already smells and tastes much better than the 9 month old stuff.

Main question. Toss the over oaked gallon into the next spirit run, or hide it away and see what it's like in a year or 2 or 10?

[NZChris]

Don't waste the aging it already has. Blend it with white dog.

[rgreen2002]

I wanted to drop by again and tell my " I am a believer" story of Nuclear alcohol. Take it for what its worth of course but I had a batch of Birdwatchers sitting around just getting old - so that it would be a little less harsh. I ran it as a neutral through my boka (1.5 inch diam with 65 inch column. tested out at 95% ABV). I spent a day reading the forum and thought what the heck, maybe I can speed this along. It had already been diluted down to about 40% ABV and was still "white dog". I put just a few pieces of the JD wood chips in and ran in through the Nuke at 100% until I got it to about 150-160 F. I did this three times, capping each time (its amazing how much vacuum forms). On the last run I let it sit overnight (about 12-14 hours) then ran it thourgh the coffee filter to remove the wood debris. It took on a beautiful color...

Now recently I was in Cuba. I fell in love with their rums... Santiago De Cuba (the original Bacardi) 12 year, and Havana Club 7 year or older. I brought a few of those bottles home with me. The nuclear BW is just as good as the Havana club 7 yr... maybe better. A long cry from where it started!

I had a friend have a taste....agreed. Its quite good. I'm sold! For a guy that doesn't have a lot of stuff aging right now...this is a great way to get drinkable in a short time.

FS a while back I popped in with a question that I think you might have missed...

I was wondering... a while back you put a call out for a list of "recipes" (particularly the fruit Nukins). Did you ever get that list? Between the fruit and the candy recipes I think you have a fair number that would be great put together.

...any chance you put a recipe book together?

[FullySilenced]

http://www.greatbigstory.com/stories/ag ... =obnetwork" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[MDH]

Cleveland has been discussed many times on this forum. The problem is that he equates extraction with aging.

[S-Cackalacky]

I think there are ways to speed up the arrival at a more flavorful whiskey, but there are many more technical components to that than simply forcing the compounds from the wood using pressure - whether it be a canning jar in a microwave or the apparatus in that video. I use the microwave for that single purpose - to extract the wood compounds, but that's only the first step toward aging to a decent flavor. It would take artificial replication of a few other processes to get to a flavorful drop in less time.

[BaxtersDad]

I would like to try Cleveland Whiskey. It does not seem possible that it would match whiskey aged for years in oak barrels but we won't know exactly what it is until we can taste it. Any Cleveland HD'ers out there able to give a first hand report?

On nuking, if you are not using JD chips, you are missing half the benefit of nuking. Charred oak sticks, whatever they do for color and oak flavor, don't do what the JD chips do to impart some flavor and aroma from the prior contents of the barrels from which the chips are made. That plus a small amount of real vanilla, while not equal to long barrel aging, gives you something that is quite drinkable in a very short time period. I'm sure it only improves with age. If you don't have a stock of aged whiskey to drink, this is truly a great process. I am really enjoying Batch #2 of sweetfeed distilled November 9 then nuked three cycles with JD chips. I am going to let my bourbon age while I am doing the snowbird thing so it will be out of reach and therefore temptation!

[MDH]

I've tasted it. It tastes like Oak Tea.

[BaxtersDad]

Sorry if I missed in the previous 28 pages. but I have been recovering and drying the JD chips after the first use, and smelling them, I am thinking they could be reused. Granted, at $4.95 a bag, they are cheap enough, but dang, why waste that JD goodness to BBQ meat? Anybody have success using recovered chips for a second time to nuke your whiskey?

[Secale]

I haven't created any liquor yet. But I'm not sure if I would reuse chips myself.
Considering how much time and money you probably spent on everything else.

Why try to save a few measly dollars when your finishing up?

I would hate to run fine liquor on old wood.

[Swedish Pride]

lots of folks reuse em, lots don't, try it, worst that can happen you don't like it and will use new chips to get the drink to where you want it to be.

[NZChris]

Sorry if I missed in the previous 28 pages. but I have been recovering and drying the JD chips after the first use, and smelling them, I am thinking they could be reused. Granted, at $4.95 a bag, they are cheap enough, but dang, why waste that JD goodness to BBQ meat? Anybody have success using recovered chips for a second time to nuke your whiskey?

I smoked a batch of cheese using recycled chips thinking it was a clever thing to do, but the result was very disappointing. The best of the oak flavor was in my likker jar.

If I was going to reuse chips in the nuke, I wouldn't let them dry in between. I wont be trying this for you, as I doubt they would have much to give a second time around. Give it a try and report back.

[snowman_fs]

I have read through and done nuking before with good results following the guidance on Page 1 and an extra 6+ months on the shelf; but this is not exactly the reason I'm here today.

Recently I have been questioning all that is "known" within our hobby and wondered why we stop at 150F when nuking? It can't be just from the input of the tv show that talks about the roof temperature of the storage in the summer heat can it? I have also read of storage barn fires where the barrels near the fire turned out to be the "honey" casks. Possibly they were exposed to higher than the 150F temperatures? 175F would be about the limit before boiling would occur of cask strength spirits.

If I look at the esterification reactions and specifically the time to equilibrium there is a known temperature correlation. Higher temps will accelerate the esterification processes towards equilibrium. An example in a chemistry book shows ethanol and acetic acid crossing the 50% ester yield point at about 368 days at room temperature or 21°C, but at 100°C it occurs in 32 hours, and with 24 hours at 150°C the yield is above 65%. Now this is only for reference as ethyl acetate is the source of the solvent aromas; but the concept should be valid for the esters we want as well. Although the opportunity to induce extra esters and flavor might be while we are in the still, just under full reflux and held at full boil when there is plenty of acid availability from the wash. I digress.

I figure I'll have to be the one who gives this version of nuking a try; Maybe it'll turn out to be "fusion". My plan is to push the heat a little further, up to the 175F area and then try and hold the elevated temperature. I figure once it's in a jar with oak, heated to 175F and sealed I should be able to hold it in a bain marie of water at 175F (or oven) for as long as I want to maintain the temp, maybe overnight or up to the 24-hour mark?

[GrassHopper]

Some thought provoking thoughts there Snowman. You ask why we stop at 150? For me, it just scares the crap out of me to go much beyond that. Okay, I'm chicken. I don't mind, cuz IMHO it seems to be common sense. I have gone to 160 a couple times and start seeing the bubbles. Not willing to go beyond that. When the vapor starts coming off that stuff, it can be a bomb. I know because I did it. Not with nuking, but with a separate experiment. I don't think we should encourage anyone else to do it though until you have done your tests and then have some reliable verified results. I'm just thinking safety here. But, that said, I think you bring up some really valid and interesting points. I would love to see the results. I would do it outdoors though.
Keep us posted.

[FullySilenced]

170f ... I think you will find the product will be boiling or on the verge.... also once your distillate is in that temperature range and when using a microwave you may super heat the liquid to the point where its still in a liquid state.. but once disturbed, shaken, stirred or even moved... it can instantly boil...

IF this happens it can jump out of the jar in a fraction of a second as the lighter solvents go from a liquid state to a vapor...

HENCE one of the reasons i suggest 150f or there abouts....

I suggest you incrementally run your microwave to know or so you can approximate the desired temperature your microwave will produce in a given time...

Keep thinking it through guys and I hope you are enjoying the process as much as I have in it's development.

Happy Stillin

FS

[rgreen2002]

170f ... I think you will find the product will be boiling or on the verge.... also once your distillate is in that temperature range and when using a microwave you may super heat the liquid to the point where its still in a liquid state.. but once disturbed, shaken, stirred or even moved... it can instantly boil...

IF this happens it can jump out of the jar in a fraction of a second as the lighter solvents go from a liquid state to a vapor...

HENCE one of the reasons i suggest 150f or there abouts....

I suggest you incrementally run your microwave to know or so you can approximate the desired temperature your microwave will produce in a given time...

Keep thinking it through guys and I hope you are enjoying the process as much as I have in it's development.

Happy Stillin

FS

+1 I have had this happen to me on two separate occasions. Both time I was heating without wood to see if I could achieve the same effect. I think the wood acts to create effective nucleation sites and calm the liquid(among other things). There was no "explosion" but it is kind of amazing to see that instant boil and eruption. Thank God both times no one was hurt and the wife was asleep... the microwave has never been cleaner.

[FullySilenced]

We have had a few distillers purposely evaporate a whole quart in the microwave.... nothing occurred no fire, no bang, nothing other than the gentile waste of a few quarts of booze...

Happy Stillin,

FS

[NZChris]

I have read through and done nuking before with good results following the guidance on Page 1 and an extra 6+ months on the shelf; but this is not exactly the reason I'm here today.

Recently I have been questioning all that is "known" within our hobby and wondered why we stop at 150F when nuking? It can't be just from the input of the tv show that talks about the roof temperature of the storage in the summer heat can it? I have also read of storage barn fires where the barrels near the fire turned out to be the "honey" casks. Possibly they were exposed to higher than the 150F temperatures? 175F would be about the limit before boiling would occur of cask strength spirits.

If I look at the esterification reactions and specifically the time to equilibrium there is a known temperature correlation. Higher temps will accelerate the esterification processes towards equilibrium. An example in a chemistry book shows ethanol and acetic acid crossing the 50% ester yield point at about 368 days at room temperature or 21°C, but at 100°C it occurs in 32 hours, and with 24 hours at 150°C the yield is above 65%. Now this is only for reference as ethyl acetate is the source of the solvent aromas; but the concept should be valid for the esters we want as well. Although the opportunity to induce extra esters and flavor might be while we are in the still, just under full reflux and held at full boil when there is plenty of acid availability from the wash. I digress.

I figure I'll have to be the one who gives this version of nuking a try; Maybe it'll turn out to be "fusion". My plan is to push the heat a little further, up to the 175F area and then try and hold the elevated temperature. I figure once it's in a jar with oak, heated to 175F and sealed I should be able to hold it in a bain marie of water at 175F (or oven) for as long as I want to maintain the temp, maybe overnight or up to the 24-hour mark?

For what you're talking about, you don't need a nuke, you need a purpose built vessel, insulated, heated and controlled. http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... =4&t=58087

[snowman_fs]

Yup, down the road I go...Gonna use a 1/6 barrel beer keg (60 psi rupture disc capacity and all stainless) with external heat pad, some rock wool insulation, and a temp controller set to 175 next. I tried resting some jars on my woodstove but the temps never went above 145ish. Although they held 12 hours there above 120 with no trouble.

Apparently some exposure to photons also helps.

[snowman_fs]

I have some feedback from a scatter of non-scientific trials; I'll keep it short unless anyone has questions.

1. 12+ hours at "high" heat does induce esterification. I witnessed formations of new oil slicks on the surface of the samples, even an aged burbon that was "classically" nuked 3x and steeped for two weeks before being shelved in the shed off oak and in glass for a year. Therefore, the ester equilibrium was not yet reached at 1 year even with a nuke kickstart.
2. Aerating, especially while at higher temps seems to bring back the oak tea aromas compared to the nice sweet vanilla that built up in the samples that had it.
3. Increased particulate suspension and opacity. The samples were crystal clear prior to heating and have a slight fog now.
4. Head'n'Tail samples were also tried with once used oak. Mostly grey and yellow vs the deep reds I like came out of the wood. The aroma is still not something I would say is driving me to take a sip. It basically smells like it needs more time with good oak. Distinctly better but still too headsy for me.

My immediate plan forward is to let them all mellow for a week or more, chill in my shed and hopefully clear back out before tasting all samples compared to the control of each. So far I have only done nose and eye observations.

Further forward I need to make some new runs for more raw distillate and devise a couple more trials. I also need to finish up a "heat reactor chamber" that's easier to set and forget. Way too many potential variables to investigate; fun none the less.

[FullySilenced]

Today, I opened a jar of my AG wheated bourbon... it was based on Pappy Van Winkles grain ratio... I aged it in a new charred barrel for 4 months. I decanted it and put it in glass with 1 ounce of washed JD chips per quart... I nuked it three times and put it up for 6 more months in a dark cool closet.

It turned out very nice to this point... there is not a bite in a half gallon... smooth bourbon taste.

It's something I will do again..

HAPPY STILLIN,

FS

[widget]

I realize this has been going on for quite some time. Being new to the forums I have to send thanks in a few directions.

1. Mash Rookie - JD Chips... I didn't even know they existed. Canadian Tire! who knew? Brilliant

2. FullyScience - This method is so good. I swear I wouldn't even have tried it if it weren't for the excellent explanation of what was going on. It makes science! hah.

3. Odin - Cornflake whiskey + 4 cycles in the microwave and the final cycle left on the counter overnight.

This is why these forums are amazing. Numerous contributions and ideas = beautiful whiskey.
-Widget

[ericrichards420]

I too tryed this method today, although I didn't use the patented JD chips I did use some of my own white oak wood split and charred in my seasoned gas grill. After about 4 nukes in the microwave I too was pulling some color out of the sticks. I tryed a couple shots of this and it had a lot of my grill flavor. I'm going to age it for the next few weeks and see what happens. When I nuked mine I had already tamed it down to about 40% and 2 minute bursts are safe as I had no problems other than just nervousness about that process.

[martiangreen]

I didn't find where anyone had tried this yet, but since the particular Scotch I like (Glengoyne) is aged in used Sherry casks, I bought some sherry and pre-nuked my wood (toasted then charred oak dominoes that I made myself) in the sherry before putting it in my AG malt whisky to nuke there. I'm very happy with the results. I feel like the wood is not so sharp in my whisky when I nuke it in sherry first. Maybe it's just my imagination, but if so, that's still good enough for me. Nah, seriously, I tried some both ways with my friends in a blind taste test and most prefer the pre-nuked in sherry first.

[kiwi Bruce]

Never did an oak pre-soak in sherry, I just added two shots of sherry per gallon of white dog single malt before I did any aging at all. I like the mellowness sherry brings to the dance. Kiwi