Getting started

[Beerdude]

Hey there,

i´m working on everything to start my first run soon. Pot still is in progress, just put my parts for the Liebig condensor together.

Here you can see the starting point for the Pot Still.

First 23L of wash is bubbling right away. Set it up yesterday and it showed signs of fermentation 30 minutes later. Its a birdwatchers sugar wash.

Next steps are soldering all together and waiting for hose/hoseconnectings for the liebig to be shipped.

Question: What can all be used for cleaning - is it good to use NaOH (sodium hydroxide solution), lets say with 2-3%. I often use this with my beerbrewing equipment and its awesome. Safety rules for that are known, worked with lots of chemicals at university. What else is there, excpet the water run, the water/vinegar run and the sacrifical run that i can do to help cleaning after the pot still is finished with building?

Greetings

[thatguy1313]

Several water/vinegar runs. I've never used anything except ethanol and vinegar to clean my still. Fermentation equipment is a different story. When I first set up my new still I did three vinegar runs and two sac runs. Just rinse with water and dry between runs.
Edit: Liebig looks really nice, man. Good job!

[der wo]

After soldering I would dip a cleaning pad (perhaps what you use for cleaning before soldering) in a mixture from vinegar and salt and push it a few times through the condenser. And then do the cleaning and sacrifical runs.

And later after distilling you can use what is called "Soda" or "Waschsoda" in Germany. It's called natron here. It's strange, Natron = soda and Soda = natron.
It does not destroy the patina as vinegar or citric acid does and it helps with the smell. You can also use unparfumed dishwashing liquid, but for the smell natron is better.

[still_stirrin]

Make sure you use water solulable flux when you solder. And of course, use lead-free solder. That will make it a little easier to clean.

I recommend a good steam run to start. Just fill the boiler with water and turn on the heat. No need to run coolant through the Liebig. Just let it push steam through for 30 minutes, or so.

Then make a wash of 50/50 water to vinegar and fire it up. Run it like a run, this time collecting the vinegar & water "product". Collect until you've collected the volume of vinegar you started with (I back fill the jug I bought the vinegar in).

Finally, do a sacrifical alcohol run...just like you're running a "keeper". But this should not be kept, nor sampled. The alcohol will wash out the rest of the crud that the steam and vinegar didn't wash out. So you don't want to consume it, even if tempted to do so.

Be safe. Be responsible. And be discrete.
ss

[Beerdude]

Finished soldering:

Redesigned the column etc. so there is no brass, everything is copper or stainless steel. Transition between lid and column is sealed with SS screws and DIY-PTFE gasket. So the question left is, if the diameters and lenght of the liebig are too small and if anything is leaking. Thermometer fits in a small hole and sealed with PTFE, too.
Two transitions arent soldered, they will be plugged in and sealed with PTFE.

[raketemensch]

Well, your 3 cleaning runs will let you know. The water run is the highest-heat, hardest-pushing thing you'll ever run through it, so it's a great test.

[Beerdude]

Well, your 3 cleaning runs will let you know. The water run is the highest-heat, hardest-pushing thing you'll ever run through it, so it's a great test.

Ok

I got a beer that is a bit sour and i would dumb it - can i use this as a sacrificial? Maybe the alc. content is too low, just about 4%.

[still_stirrin]

I'd solder all thecopper fittings together...eliminate the possibility of leaks.

But...I'd also get a copper union to install between the potstill head and the Liebig condenser. That will make breakdown and storage much easier. 3/4" and/or 1/2" copper unions are not too expensive...but highly recommended.
ss

[Beerdude]

But...I'd also get a copper union to install between the potstill head and the Liebig condenser. That will make breakdown and storage much easier. 3/4" and/or 1/2" copper unions are not too expensive...but highly recommended.

Cant get any brass that doesnt contain lead. Although thats only a very few percent, i dont want to use anything lead containing that can get in contact with the alcohol/alc vapour. Would be a lot easier

[thatguy1313]

They have all copper unions that are safe for use here.

[Beerdude]

Maybe i should import some of those someday.

Just did the water and vinegar cleaning runs. Everything is tight, no vapour escaping. Made a nice o-ring sealing for the lid with silicon tube wrapped in PTFE tape.
Only part that is leaking is the water circlet of the Liebig, probably got sloppy when soldering. As for the diameters it seems to work for the Liebig, altough its 1/2" outer diamter, not inner.

So, waiting for the birdwatchers sugar wash to finish to do the sacrifical run. Until then i will get rid of those leaks...

Greetings

[Beerdude]

As the wash got about 10% today, i did a small 3L run. I guess its huffing, as there was a cycling sound at the end of the Liebig where the destillate runs out. Is this a no-go/really bad? I really dont like to rebuild everything
"Collected" about 300 mLs with 30 vol%.

I will try some copper scrubbie i guess and look if it helps. Huffing was really quiet.

edit: would stainlesssteel scrubber work or is copper necessary?

[still_stirrin]

....I guess its huffing, as there was a cycling sound at the end of the Liebig where the destillate runs out. Is this a no-go/really bad?...

With the small diameter tubing you're using, I believe you're hearing the vapor velocity inside. Then, you've got a long condenser to knock the vapor down, such that I suspect it is collapsing inside early, creating that "huff" sound.

How much heat are you using during the run...and how fast is your cooling water flowing? Both may affect the sound you hear.

Do you have a little piece of scrubbie in the product tube? That sometimes reduces the inrush of cold, ambient air delaying collapse of vapor inside the Liebig. Remember, temperature gradient within helps with a stable process....less "huff" and "puff".

Is it a problem?....probably not for the size of your still and system. Successive runs may help you "tune" your still so she sounds better. It's all about getting to know your tools and toolset.
ss

[Beerdude]

I lowered the heat right after it started do run, think about 70% from maximum. Speed of waterflow - cant really tell, can measure it next time. Wasnt that fast.

I will add a scrubbie - where is the best place - at the beginning of the Liebig or at the end? And would stainless steel be ok, too?

Thanks for your help

[still_stirrin]

...where is the best place - at the beginning of the Liebig or at the end? And would stainless steel be ok, too?

By the outlet. SS will work fine.
ss

[still_stirrin]

Also, to recap...your heat source is an inductive hotplate, am I correct?

Can you get steady heat input from that? I hope that isn't also a contributor to your so called, "huffing". Temperature controlled hotplates will cycle off and on to get the boil to temperature. But the still needs a steady supply of heat input (regulated, of course).
ss

[Beerdude]

Also, to recap...your heat source is an inductive hotplate, am I correct?

Can you get steady heat input from that? I hope that isn't also a contributor to your so called, "huffing". Temperature controlled hotplates will cycle off and on to get the boil to temperature. But the still needs a steady supply of heat input (regulated, of course).
ss

No, its not inductive. I´m still looking for the right controller to regulate my hotplate. Something like this. 4000W should be enough and its 220V Input.

[der wo]

You wrote, your pot is 5-6 gallons. And your hotplate is 1500W but cycles, so in reality/average you have perhaps maximum 1200W after heating up. And you use only 70% of the wattage after heating up, perhaps 1000W. And your condenser huffs a little bit, what's ok, but you won't be able to use more power.
I see your pot is insulated, so it's possible to distill with this low wattage this not so small pot. But I foresee, that soon you want a shorter heating up time and a faster stripping. It's time to think about your future plans...

I really dont like to rebuild everything

After building is before building. Always.

[Beerdude]

Thinking about a 3500W manual induction hotplate as i could use it for other stuff too.

After building is before building. Always.

Thats true. Very familar
I will use this construction for some time, get some practise with this hobby and read a lot more about hardware etc.

[der wo]

Yes. That's wiser than my advice.

[Beerdude]

10 Litres wash ran through my pot still today. Well, as i know right now, my mash wasnt finished fermenting yet, my mistake. Was at about 7%.

I did cuts for some training effects. I just gonna document things for myself if thats ok.

Cuts:
1. 140mL - 45%
2. 150mL - 42%
3. 170mL - 40%
4. -8: 180mL 38/32/29/20/17

Sums up to 1360 mL, took about 80 minutes to run it. My flowrate of the circulating cooling water is either 3,1L/min (12V) or 1,3L/min (6V) with my pump. Maybe i should look for something to adjust this better.

I think im gonna sacrafice those too, as the first run was only with a 3L wash. It doenst smell very good, too. Or i rerun it to find out what a spirit run is like.
10L of wash left in the fermenter.

Would like to set up a new mash/wash to get a first sense of achievment. Probably another sugarwash would be good as it is damn cheap.

edit: huffing sound is gone, used a piece of SS scrubber on the output.

[Antler24]

Sounds like your off to a pretty good start, but I'd be looking at upgrading your heat source ASAP.

Also, I've yet to be happy with first run spirits. Save up enough to do a spirit run, you'll be surprised how much cleaner and smoother it is the second time around.

[Beerdude]

Started a Wineos sugar wash 2 days ago, but with a wineyeast i had on hand.

The birdwatchers wash is still fermenting,i think its to cold to ferment faster. Put it in a room with 22-23°C now. When my fridge isnt used with a fermenting lagerbeer anymore, i will put one of the washs in it and set it on heating - with a lightbulb. Haven´t tested it higher than 25°C, but should work.

Had planned to run the birdwatchers today, but well, i guess i have to be patient

[Beerdude]

Dumped the last run, sacrifical.

Next one:

11-12L wash (about 10%, maybe less):

1: 50 mL (65-9X°C)
2: 180 mL - 49% (95°C)
3: 300 mL - 44% (96°C)
4: 280 mL - 42% (96,8°C)
5: 300 mL - 37% (97,5°C)
6: 230 mL - 35% (98°C)
7: 200 mL - 30% (98,5°C)
8/9: 400 mL - 23% (99°C)

(think my thermometer isnt that precise)

Sums up to 1890 mL without the first cut, which will be dumped. This run smells much better, i can smell a difference between some cuts, too.
Didnt mix everything together yet, but math says it is ~36% when mixed.

What do to next? Let it breath some air and try to differentiate it from right now, or just mix it together and distill it another time in a few days?

Should i stick to a simple sugar wash for some time or is it advisable to do a grain mash? Mashing shouldnt be a problem. Or i do "Odins cornflakes whiskey" from T&T section.

Greetings

[still_stirrin]

...What do to next? Let it breath some air and try to differentiate it from right now, or just mix it together and distill it another time in a few days?

Low wines? No sense to do cuts now unless you want to practice. Making cuts can be difficult for the newb. Practice helps. Seeing how this thread is in the "my first" forum, I say you could use the practice too. But once you find the cuts, dump the low wines together for you spirit run.

...Should i stick to a simple sugar wash for some time or is it advisable to do a grain mash? Mashing shouldnt be a problem. Or i do "Odins cornflakes whiskey" from T&T section....

Do you know what you're doing? I'd say stick with one recipe until you know (to the point you won't have to ask for help). Trying to "wear the big boy pants" too soon can result in confusion and catastrophe. Get good at what you're doing before moving on. Those recipes have been here a while and they'll be here a while longer...no rush.
ss

[Antler24]

Stick with one of the tried and true recipes. I suggest ujsm if your after whiskey, or pugirum if you like rum. Sticking with a tried and true recipe until you have fermenting, distilling, and cuts figured out and make good hooch, then try an all grain mash. That way if your all grain drink turns out not so great, there's a very good chance something went wrong in the mashing process. Trouble shooting gets much easier and your finished product becomes much more consistent when you take it one thing at a time.

[Beerdude]

...What do to next? Let it breath some air and try to differentiate it from right now, or just mix it together and distill it another time in a few days?

Low wines? No sense to do cuts now unless you want to practice. Making cuts can be difficult for the newb. Practice helps. Seeing how this thread is in the "my first" forum, I say you could use the practice too. But once you find the cuts, dump the low wines together for you spirit run.

Yes, these cuts where only for practise purpose.

...Should i stick to a simple sugar wash for some time or is it advisable to do a grain mash? Mashing shouldnt be a problem. Or i do "Odins cornflakes whiskey" from T&T section....

Do you know what you're doing? I'd say stick with one recipe until you know (to the point you won't have to ask for help). Trying to "wear the big boy pants" too soon can result in confusion and catastrophe. Get good at what you're doing before moving on. Those recipes have been here a while and they'll be here a while longer...no rush.
ss

Stick with one of the tried and true recipes. I suggest ujsm if your after whiskey, or pugirum if you like rum. Sticking with a tried and true recipe until you have fermenting, distilling, and cuts figured out and make good hooch, then try an all grain mash. That way if your all grain drink turns out not so great, there's a very good chance something went wrong in the mashing process. Trouble shooting gets much easier and your finished product becomes much more consistent when you take it one thing at a time.

Doing an all grain mash wouldnt be a problem, as i am brewing my own beer for nearly ten years now. All grain since the second batch. But i will stick to the simpler sugar washs for a while.
Goals are a smooth whiskey (probably irish style), a good gin and some "neutrals" to transform into fruit-liqueur. The last ones should be good to go with a sugar wash and some maceration i hope.

Thanks guys

[Beerdude]

Spirit run with this small stripped lowwines went pretty "fast", tried to do it slowly.

First my documentation with the cuts:

Lost some vapour at the beginning, fixed it very fast. Though stupid (and potentially dangerous..) that it happend.

1: up to 84°C - 30-50 mL - to less to measure % [bäh, doesnt smell good]
2: 85°C - 140 ml - 77% [sweet smell, not bad]
3: 87°C - 100 mL 73% [think its very neutral]
4: 89°C - 100 mL - 70% [neutral]
5: 93°C - 180 mL - 65% [neutral]
6: 96°C - 100 mL - 55% [little different, but rather neutral smell, nothing bad detectable]
7: 98°C - 150 mL - 40% [not so good]
8: 99°C - 150 mL - 18% [really terrible smelling again]

Hard to describe those smells. Numer 3 - 6 mixing and drinkable after diluting to 40-45? Or just 3-5
2,7,8 going as feints in one glas.

Next time: Make marks for 100 or 150 mL cuts. More cuts would be better i guess.

[der wo]

Heads will profit from airing. Perhaps after a while you will give jar Nr.2 to your mix. Take your time to do this decision. You will learn something.
You only write about smell not about taste. So I have the suspicion, you check also for tails with your nose? General rule is, check heads with nose and tails with tongue. Of course you can also smell tails, but you taste them earlier normally. So perhaps you will decide against jar Nr.6 after tasting.

[Beerdude]

I put some aluminium foil on the jars with the cuts stored in and stiched some holse in it for airing.

Havent tasted antyhing yet. I think i have read that mixing those tasting samples with some water would be good. And not swallowing.