PLC automated pot still
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PLC automated pot still
My rig is a programmable logic controller automated pot still. The pot is a stainless steel kettle of 6.5 gallons. In the side of the kettle as low as possible is a 230 volt, 4500 watt water heater element. It is low heat density intended for water heaters that are used in hard water areas.
On the pot is an inverted stainless steel food mixing bowl forming the dome. The dome is sealed to the pot with a food grade silicon tube which I have split and fits nicely on the rim of the pot, 8 mm OD if I recall correctly. The dome is clamped to the pot with eight binder clips.
On the dome is a 2” diameter copper column soldered to a bronze flange and then bolted to the dome. A Teflon gasket sits between the dome and the flange. I’ve made the assumption that the flange might contain lead so have arranged the 2” copper tube and gasket to isolate any part of the flange surface from the vapor side of the still.
The copper column is 20” high. At the top, I have soldered a tee. In the top of the tee is a silicon bung with a temperature RTD (resistance temperature detector) installed in it. The RTD senses the vapor temperature at the top of the column. In the side port of the tee is a ½” copper tube Lynn arm running to a Liebig condenser. The condenser is 26” long and is composed of a ½” inner copper tube and a ¾” outer copper tube. The water enters at the bottom and exits at the top, so running counter flow to the alcohol. In the annulus space where the water flows I have soldered in a copper wire spiral so the water will be in full contact with the OD of the ½” tube as it flows through the condenser. Connecting the column, Lynn arm and condenser are unions for disassembly when not in use and for cleaning.
At the water outlet of the condenser is another temperature RTD sensing the water temperature exiting the condenser. I’ve also installed a water regulating valve and a globe valve at the water inlet side of the condenser. The sensing bulb of the water regulating valve is installed to sense the temperature of the water exiting the condenser.
I do my still runs in the laundry room, taking over the top of the washer and dryer. The laundry room provides 230 volt and 120 volt power, a cold water supply, a water drain, and an exhaust fan. All of the services I need to run and control my still.
Control of the still is fully automated. The heart of the controller is a programmable logic controller (PLC). Monitoring and adjusting the operation is through a touch screen display (human-machine interface, or HMI). I have set it up to control the amperage to the heater element either manually or in programmed mode. In programmed mode, I don’t have to do anything more than turn it on and monitor its operation. The controller plugs into the dryer receptacle to serve the 230 volt needs of the heater element. The controller also plugs into the 120 volt receptacle for control power. The 230 volt power enters the controller first connecting through a manual 2 pole stop switch then passes through a current transformer that senses the current and provides an input signal to the PLC which converts it to an amperage unit for display and also as an input to the logic of the PLC program. The PLC program provides an output to a solid state relay to control the relay pulse duration thereby controlling the amount of heat from the heater element in the pot. At full power, the amount of amperage into the heater element is 17.4 amperes (equating to 4500 watts), though I have never run it this hot. When pre-heating, amperage is typically at 12.2 A, during the heart of a spirit run at 5.9 A, and in tails at 14.0 A.
The 120 volt control power also enters the controller through a stop switch. From the switch the 120 VAC is connected to 24 VDC power supply which provides regulated power to the PLC and the HMI and the RTDs. Inputs to the PLC are the sensed current, the column temperature and the condenser water temperature. Output from the PLC is the signal to control the pulse width of the solid state relay (which determines the heat output). The HMI displays the amperage, heater wattage, the column temperature and the condenser water temperature. The HMI also allows the user to switch between manual mode or programmed mode. It also displays any alerts or alarm conditions. A second page of the HMI display allows the user to adjust amperage outputs and corresponding column temperature set points. In programmed operation, the PLC simply steps through a program sending a pre-set amperage to the heater depending upon the stage of the distillation run as determined by the column temperature. Also programmed in are hard shutdown points if the column temperature exceeds 209 degrees F or the condenser water out exceeds 120 degrees F.
The PLC is a Click CO-02DD1-D with a 4 channel RTD input module and a 4 channel relay output module. The HMI is a C-More Micro EA1-TC6CL color touch screen. Both units are from Automation Direct. They are more than capable for what I need, have proven reliable and are relatively low cost. The programming software for both the PLC and the HMI is free, though you still have to know how to write a program. The other major components have either come from Automation Direct or I’ve found on EBay. When I do a distillation run I am also interfacing my laptop computer with the PLC so I can monitor status as it steps through the ladder logic program. Even though this pot still is very small, the controller and the program I’ve written for it could easily be adapted to any size and type of still.
Obviously this is all massive overkill for a hobby still so it begs the question of why did I do it? Like most of you I am hobby distiller. And the part of the hobby that I enjoy most is the process. I don’t even drink most of the product, it either gets tossed into the next still run or sometimes poured down the drain (horrors!). I do save some for sampling so I can validate and improve the process. I did all this because I can. I enjoyed building the still but I really enjoyed building the controller. This is my third generation controller and I’ve learned a lot along the way. When I do a distillation run I keep careful notes which I use to refine the program which then gets tested in the next run. I’d be happy to answer any questions.
On the pot is an inverted stainless steel food mixing bowl forming the dome. The dome is sealed to the pot with a food grade silicon tube which I have split and fits nicely on the rim of the pot, 8 mm OD if I recall correctly. The dome is clamped to the pot with eight binder clips.
On the dome is a 2” diameter copper column soldered to a bronze flange and then bolted to the dome. A Teflon gasket sits between the dome and the flange. I’ve made the assumption that the flange might contain lead so have arranged the 2” copper tube and gasket to isolate any part of the flange surface from the vapor side of the still.
The copper column is 20” high. At the top, I have soldered a tee. In the top of the tee is a silicon bung with a temperature RTD (resistance temperature detector) installed in it. The RTD senses the vapor temperature at the top of the column. In the side port of the tee is a ½” copper tube Lynn arm running to a Liebig condenser. The condenser is 26” long and is composed of a ½” inner copper tube and a ¾” outer copper tube. The water enters at the bottom and exits at the top, so running counter flow to the alcohol. In the annulus space where the water flows I have soldered in a copper wire spiral so the water will be in full contact with the OD of the ½” tube as it flows through the condenser. Connecting the column, Lynn arm and condenser are unions for disassembly when not in use and for cleaning.
At the water outlet of the condenser is another temperature RTD sensing the water temperature exiting the condenser. I’ve also installed a water regulating valve and a globe valve at the water inlet side of the condenser. The sensing bulb of the water regulating valve is installed to sense the temperature of the water exiting the condenser.
I do my still runs in the laundry room, taking over the top of the washer and dryer. The laundry room provides 230 volt and 120 volt power, a cold water supply, a water drain, and an exhaust fan. All of the services I need to run and control my still.
Control of the still is fully automated. The heart of the controller is a programmable logic controller (PLC). Monitoring and adjusting the operation is through a touch screen display (human-machine interface, or HMI). I have set it up to control the amperage to the heater element either manually or in programmed mode. In programmed mode, I don’t have to do anything more than turn it on and monitor its operation. The controller plugs into the dryer receptacle to serve the 230 volt needs of the heater element. The controller also plugs into the 120 volt receptacle for control power. The 230 volt power enters the controller first connecting through a manual 2 pole stop switch then passes through a current transformer that senses the current and provides an input signal to the PLC which converts it to an amperage unit for display and also as an input to the logic of the PLC program. The PLC program provides an output to a solid state relay to control the relay pulse duration thereby controlling the amount of heat from the heater element in the pot. At full power, the amount of amperage into the heater element is 17.4 amperes (equating to 4500 watts), though I have never run it this hot. When pre-heating, amperage is typically at 12.2 A, during the heart of a spirit run at 5.9 A, and in tails at 14.0 A.
The 120 volt control power also enters the controller through a stop switch. From the switch the 120 VAC is connected to 24 VDC power supply which provides regulated power to the PLC and the HMI and the RTDs. Inputs to the PLC are the sensed current, the column temperature and the condenser water temperature. Output from the PLC is the signal to control the pulse width of the solid state relay (which determines the heat output). The HMI displays the amperage, heater wattage, the column temperature and the condenser water temperature. The HMI also allows the user to switch between manual mode or programmed mode. It also displays any alerts or alarm conditions. A second page of the HMI display allows the user to adjust amperage outputs and corresponding column temperature set points. In programmed operation, the PLC simply steps through a program sending a pre-set amperage to the heater depending upon the stage of the distillation run as determined by the column temperature. Also programmed in are hard shutdown points if the column temperature exceeds 209 degrees F or the condenser water out exceeds 120 degrees F.
The PLC is a Click CO-02DD1-D with a 4 channel RTD input module and a 4 channel relay output module. The HMI is a C-More Micro EA1-TC6CL color touch screen. Both units are from Automation Direct. They are more than capable for what I need, have proven reliable and are relatively low cost. The programming software for both the PLC and the HMI is free, though you still have to know how to write a program. The other major components have either come from Automation Direct or I’ve found on EBay. When I do a distillation run I am also interfacing my laptop computer with the PLC so I can monitor status as it steps through the ladder logic program. Even though this pot still is very small, the controller and the program I’ve written for it could easily be adapted to any size and type of still.
Obviously this is all massive overkill for a hobby still so it begs the question of why did I do it? Like most of you I am hobby distiller. And the part of the hobby that I enjoy most is the process. I don’t even drink most of the product, it either gets tossed into the next still run or sometimes poured down the drain (horrors!). I do save some for sampling so I can validate and improve the process. I did all this because I can. I enjoyed building the still but I really enjoyed building the controller. This is my third generation controller and I’ve learned a lot along the way. When I do a distillation run I keep careful notes which I use to refine the program which then gets tested in the next run. I’d be happy to answer any questions.
- corene1
- HD Distilling Goddess
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Re: PLC automated pot still
Yes I would say that is a lot of overkill for a pot still but what ever wets your whistle is OK with me. I would really like to see the silicon seals replaced with PTFE2 seals as we here at HD do not recommend silicone for seals that will contact high proof alcohol vapors. AND even though it is automated please don't run it unattended. That is a very unsafe practice.
Re: PLC automated pot still
Cool. The clicks are cute little toy PLCs. I have a couple of them here. I've been toying with the idea of monitoring and controlling my still power with them. The one thing that I don't like about them is that the analog is 0-5V instead of the standard 0-10V. But I can convert. It's cheaper than using some of my Allen-Bradley CompactLogix or ControlLogix stuff.
Have fun and be safe. As was mentioned, ditch the silicone and use teflon (PTFE).
Have fun and be safe. As was mentioned, ditch the silicone and use teflon (PTFE).
Re: PLC automated pot still
This is a great setup. I can see myself doing this at some point. Like you, because it would be a fun challenge - something to be proud of.
I think if I were to attempt it, I would also look into setting up some sort of MP3 or wav playback linked to various distillation events...
I'd probably offer Wil Wheaton a hundred bucks to record phrases like
"the kettle is now halfway to the boiling point"
"At the current rate, the kettle should reach boiling point in 5 minutes"
And other periodic messages triggered to go off like coolant flow readouts or status updates...
Basically id want a specific audio cue every time the controller (Arduino? Raspberry Pi?) makes an adjustment. And, since motion detectors and mic's are cheap, maybe even a loud 'wake up' call if the system doesn't detect operator motion for longer than 3 or 4 minutes... Maybe make it sensitive enough that turning a page in a book would set it off?
My fear of automation is that the operator might miss something because s/he is assuming the computer will catch it.
Though, I freely admit that I am feeling stoked about the cleverness on display here and that NONE of my ideas could end up being useful.
I think if I were to attempt it, I would also look into setting up some sort of MP3 or wav playback linked to various distillation events...
I'd probably offer Wil Wheaton a hundred bucks to record phrases like
"the kettle is now halfway to the boiling point"
"At the current rate, the kettle should reach boiling point in 5 minutes"
And other periodic messages triggered to go off like coolant flow readouts or status updates...
Basically id want a specific audio cue every time the controller (Arduino? Raspberry Pi?) makes an adjustment. And, since motion detectors and mic's are cheap, maybe even a loud 'wake up' call if the system doesn't detect operator motion for longer than 3 or 4 minutes... Maybe make it sensitive enough that turning a page in a book would set it off?
My fear of automation is that the operator might miss something because s/he is assuming the computer will catch it.
Though, I freely admit that I am feeling stoked about the cleverness on display here and that NONE of my ideas could end up being useful.
Re: PLC automated pot still
One thing this got me thinking about was some sort of Arduino monitor and control setup for malting barley....
Maybe some sort of setup where you load barley into a 10" pvc tube, say, six feet long at a sleight angle... The Arduino could monitor and adjust (?)temps as well as flood the tube with water for the 24hr (48?) soaking. Then, it could dump the water, monitor moisture levels during the sprouting, and then perhaps even spin the tube like a trommel and start a fan for the drying process.
It would be pretty awesome (as a truck driver) to shovel a wheelbarrow-full of barley into a tube on Sunday, hit the 'go' button and come home at the end of the week to a batch of dried malt.
Geez... I think I might spend more energy looking into THIS than rigging up automation for my own still!!
Sorry for the hijack good sir. But you truly have inspired me.
Maybe some sort of setup where you load barley into a 10" pvc tube, say, six feet long at a sleight angle... The Arduino could monitor and adjust (?)temps as well as flood the tube with water for the 24hr (48?) soaking. Then, it could dump the water, monitor moisture levels during the sprouting, and then perhaps even spin the tube like a trommel and start a fan for the drying process.
It would be pretty awesome (as a truck driver) to shovel a wheelbarrow-full of barley into a tube on Sunday, hit the 'go' button and come home at the end of the week to a batch of dried malt.
Geez... I think I might spend more energy looking into THIS than rigging up automation for my own still!!
Sorry for the hijack good sir. But you truly have inspired me.
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Re: PLC automated pot still
Scribbler, I like your ideas. I'm thinking that your malting tube ought to be my next automation project. I'll use the PLC though. I have an Arduino but never got very good at the programming for it. Also a PLC is easier to interface with devises like pump motor starters, solenoid valves and fans. Keep the ideas coming.
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Re: PLC automated pot still
Funny the risks we personally accept and those we choose to avoid. Often with no rational correlation to the probability or the consequence. I do have a little silicon in my still. I also eat grilled meat and drink alcohol. Often more than the healthy 3 oz recommended daily allowance. I also engage in home distillation in the US and have been known to jaywalk. On the other hand, I don't smoke or drink soda (either the real stuff or sugar free). And I don't run my fully automated still unattended.
One risk that I'm working toward removing from my life is the use of silicon in my still. It shouldn't be there, I agree. I've tried using a PTFE tube as the pot rim seal. It didn't work, too stiff and didn't conform well enough to the shape of the rim. One of the contributors has described an everlasting gasket of PTFE tape and cardboard. Seems like that will work for my still. I will try that next. Thanks for all the advice and ideas - this is a great forum.
One risk that I'm working toward removing from my life is the use of silicon in my still. It shouldn't be there, I agree. I've tried using a PTFE tube as the pot rim seal. It didn't work, too stiff and didn't conform well enough to the shape of the rim. One of the contributors has described an everlasting gasket of PTFE tape and cardboard. Seems like that will work for my still. I will try that next. Thanks for all the advice and ideas - this is a great forum.
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- Distiller
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Re: PLC automated pot still
Very nice, clean and well thought out and well built set-up, But IMHO, you took all the fun out of running a pot still. That would be hell of a setup with a big flute setup, approaching Odin's IStill.
BG
BG
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Re: PLC automated pot still
Good points boda getta. I am flattered by the comparison to Odins Istill. Id like to put a taller finned column on it but already within 1/2" of the ceiling. Personally feel that I am not even close to Odin with this prototype but could be on my next build. Ive kept my old rheostat controller so could always go back if I stop having fun with the current set up. And I still need to make my cuts same as anyone else with a good old fashioned manual pot still.
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Re: PLC automated pot still
Hello DRMILLER100, you sent me a PM about this but I can't reply. I get a message that says your PM receipt preference is turned off. Change your preference and I'll reply to your PM. Thanks
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Re: PLC automated pot still
I can totally relate! I like the process more than anything. Seeing if this batch came out better than the last one, coming up with new flavors or taking on new challenges. Like you, I tend to waste a lot of "product". I pour some in with the brine water when I do ribs. I make my own rum cakes with it (imagine if the coworkers at the office party knew I made the rum in the rum cake?). I don't drink very much of it.Old Gray Dog wrote: Obviously this is all massive overkill for a hobby still so it begs the question of why did I do it? Like most of you I am hobby distiller. And the part of the hobby that I enjoy most is the process. I don’t even drink most of the product, it either gets tossed into the next still run or sometimes poured down the drain (horrors!). I do save some for sampling so I can validate and improve the process. I did all this because I can. I enjoyed building the still but I really enjoyed building the controller.
Besides, I still kind of suck at the mashing/fermenting/distilling part. Up until now most of my output tastes the same. Whether its sugar wash or peaches or bananas, it all pretty much comes out tasting the same. I had fun designing and constructing a couple of smaller stills, but now that my biggest (last!) 13 gallon still is done, I need to actually get something good and useful out of it. Maybe I'll be able to make better cuts and such and get some flavor from the still.
My liebig could still use some work... I understand 3/4 over 1/2 is better than 1" over 1/2, but I'm REALLY tired of buying copper and soldering.
I LOVE your controller. That's like big-time distillery stuff there. The only thing you're doing that I've had a problem with is the thermometers. The ones I used before either eventually leaked, failed, or the people on this board freaked out because I held them in place with silicone.
Here's an Idea I might try in the future, called a "thermowell". Basically you drill a hole in the tube (like the top of your riser column). Insert a thin copper pipe just slightly bigger than your thermometer probe. Solder the tube into the hole. either cap the other end and solder, or just squash it together with pliers and solder. Stick the thermometer probe into the hollow cavity you just made, and squirt a little heat sink compound or other heat-conductive stuff. Put a dab of silicone at the top to hold the probe in place. Now you have a thermometer that will measure your column temp, but is completely outside your vapor flow. I got the idea from my hot tub. There will be a slight delay, as temperature increases have to work their way through the copper. but it's as close as you would get to real-time monitoring. I miss my old digital thermometer, but I didn't include one at all on the new still.
I just use the "ow shlt that's hot" method - where I touch the column and snatch my finger back. The sounds the still makes are interesting, too. There's that "sizzling" sound that lets me know its about to boil, almost like someone tossed a wasp nest inside and the bees are banging against the side, then when it starts to get quiet I start touching the column, and feeling the heat work its way up.
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- Rumrunner
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Re: PLC automated pot still
Wow nice. A good idea for using ptfe to seal a pot and bowl, is to get some plumbers tape and wrap a few times around the lip of the bowl, and if need be, the pot as well. It might need to be replaced every few runs, but it's cheap enough.