FLUTE TALK

[moonshiner dave]

Awesome guys. That's what I like to hear. I'm gonna have to wait a while before I can run it again as I have caving plans next weekend and won't be around. Plus I'm waiting on my new glass for the sight glasses. I figured out that the glass I had cut is a shade too small and is tearing my cork gaskets when I tighten them down. Once I get back on Sunday and get some mash made and get a shipping confirmation for the glass it'll be on like donkey kong.

[olddog]

I figured out that the glass I had cut is a shade too small and is tearing my cork gaskets when I tighten them down.

Dave, you only need a cork gasket on the still side of the sight glass. Make or get a Teflon gasket (seal) for the exterior one, I had the same problem initially, the teflon allows the tightening ring to turn smoothly without tearing.
BTW you can order Teflon sheet on Ebay and cut your own seals.


OD

[moonshiner dave]

Thanks OD, but the issue is where the glass is too small. It's going too far inside the fitting and the angle is causing the glass to cut the cork. I guess I should have said cut instead of tear in my last post. I'm using the teflon on the outside of the glass also and it works well. Once more, I have to thank you for coming up with this idea, this thing is great! Cheers OD.

[Austin Nichols]

I finished my latest project, it is a 3" column that has 2 bubble plates and a centering ring mounted inside the column , there's no reducers except for two on the shotgun condenser.

It needs a bit more of a clean up and gotta fix a slight leak in the water line, but other than that she's ready for a cleaning run.

I might fit sight glasses at a later date, but going to see if I can get consistent results without them.

mini bubbler

It needs a name.

Cheers.

[olddog]

I am interested to see how it delivers, keep us posted.


OD

[Austin Nichols]

I am interested to see how it delivers, keep us posted.


OD

It could end up being a complete failure

[Izzy_Britton]

I am trying to lay out my hole pattern and calculate surface to hole ratio.

cannot seem to get the math right on this, i thought i did it right earlier tonight but then made some changes, now its not computing.

I am under the impression that the goal is to get 30-35% hole per plate, right?

so i got 200 .125" holes in a 4.007 plate. I multiply 200 X .125" = 25" that means that the holes are 5X bigger than the plate. obviously not possible unless a black hole is involved or time lord technology. somewhere i have skipped a step.

its late, can some one point out the error of my ways please.

OffToDreamLandIz

[Mulitpleg]

Area = pi * r squared.
A circular plate with a diameter of 4.007 has an area of 12.61 square inches.
A hole with a diameter of .125 inches has an area of 0.01227 square inches.
30% of 12.61 is 3.783.
308 holes is about 30% area.

[likkerluvver]

I am trying to lay out my hole pattern and calculate surface to hole ratio.

its late, can some one point out the error of my ways please.

OffToDreamLandIz

Area of 0.125 diam hole:
PI(0.125/2)^2
= 0.012271846

Area of 4.007 diam plate:
PI(4.007/2)^2
= 12.6103914

Total area of 0.125 diam holes:
= 200 x 0.012271846
= 2.454369261

% of total area of 0.125 diam holes in 4.007 diaplate:
= 2.454369261 / 12.6103914 x 100

= 19.46306965%

Holes needed for 30% area
= 200 x 30 / 19.4630696
=308.2761408

=308 holes

Holes needed for 30% area
= 200 x 35 / 19.4630696
= 359.6554976

= 360 holes

Wow! That’s one hell of a lot of holes to be drilled

[Kentucky shinner]

I am trying to lay out my hole pattern and calculate surface to hole ratio.

its late, can some one point out the error of my ways please.

OffToDreamLandIz

Area of 0.125 diam hole:
PI(0.125/2)^2
= 0.012271846

Area of 4.007 diam plate:
PI(4.007/2)^2
= 12.6103914

Total area of 0.125 diam holes:
= 200 x 0.012271846
= 2.454369261

% of total area of 0.125 diam holes in 4.007 diaplate:
= 2.454369261 / 12.6103914 x 100

= 19.46306965%

Holes needed for 30% area
= 200 x 30 / 19.4630696
=308.2761408

=308 holes

Holes needed for 30% area
= 200 x 35 / 19.4630696
= 359.6554976

= 360 holes

Wow! That’s one hell of a lot of holes to be drilled

The plates I make have holes 3/32 diameter - 1/16 will work fine also. and there are 180 holes per plate.. They work perfectly. I think sometimes we tend to over think things. I hope this helps...
KS

[exon]

Very interesting, Austin... Will look forward to seeing your results from the chunky plated column.
Would like to see more on your specs, as I am a newbie and unable to determine what the internal configuration and bill of materials may be.
It will be encouraging if you are able to get decent results from a machine using minimal length of copper and components. Efficiency counts for a lot!
I do like that it appears you are using a large volume tube for your product condensor, probably creating less restriction in the vapor path as it collapses.
Thank you
exon

[exon]

I know nothing.

Yet I'd like to learn.

It appears to me that extensive hole tally in multiple plates could be extremely tedious, unless one had access to CNC machinery.
In my particular location, such projects are occasionally accomplish at a local college that has metalworking classes. Gratis.
For example: having motorcycle disk brake rotors drilled in an interesting cooling pattern.
Students would be favorably disposed to participate in an alternative 'fuel' concept.

It is dawning upon me that the sight glasses are among the best way to judge actual performance of selected theoretical plate design.
Especially when straying from a proven design application.
Run time and measured results must be considered along with personal preference of the art.
exon

[Izzy_Britton]

I see engineers over think things everyday to the point it is ridiculous. it is really easy to make things more difficult than they have to be.. all I was saying is it is really easy to over engineer shit... I see it all the time...

Pi! I knew i was forgetting something. Just couldn't make my brain work last night. I had the working formula earlier in the day. oh well, now its on here for reference for everyone.


I am THAT guy, not an engineer but i tend to brain fuck everything when I have too much time on my hands. I had planned out a hole pattern using 296 1/16" holes but the cost of the drill bits and the time involved in drilling that many holes without a drill press put me off. I think this would be a more idealistic hole pattern, but who has that much time? certainly NOT me.

thanks for the math lesson. guess i better get busy with the drilling anyhow huh.

Iz

[valkyrie99]

Ok I'm asking for help again. I looked on the parent sight at the tool for figuring condense size.but I'm not sure I understand it, besides no computer modeling tool is as good as real life experience. I've decided on a liebig condense so how big would have to be made out of two inch over one and half inch. I choose these sizes because this is what I already have. What is your thoughts for a flute condense?
I've been building a few parts, here is some of what I have so far.

[Kentucky shinner]

Your plates look really good man Good job.. I am not sure about the liebeg.. I think OD will be able to help you on that one. It would need to be pretty long I would think.

[Austin Nichols]

Very interesting, Austin... Will look forward to seeing your results from the chunky plated column.
Would like to see more on your specs, as I am a newbie and unable to determine what the internal configuration and bill of materials may be.
It will be encouraging if you are able to get decent results from a machine using minimal length of copper and components. Efficiency counts for a lot!
I do like that it appears you are using a large volume tube for your product condensor, probably creating less restriction in the vapor path as it collapses.
Thank you
exon

The plate tree is very simple, the plates are mounted on a length of 3/8 tube with a centering type plate mounted to the top of it, the centering plate just has a about a dozen 3/8 holes drilled in it.

The plates themselves have 90 x 1/16 holes in each one, I dont know why that many holes but it made a nice pattern on them

The product condenser is a 1.5 inch shotgun style with 4 x 3/8 tubes inside.

I'm not expecting high ABV with this thing, I wanted a still to single run my rum wash's at aging strength..... we'll see what happens there tho.

Sorry for lack of pics during the build.

Cheers.

[LWTCS]

CM tool will damper back the bulk of the heat during most of the run. At the end when your boiler temp rises and you shut down the CM tool is when you need that good knock down power,,,,,just like one would need for a potstill at the end of a stripping run. Or at the en of any potstill run for that matter.

[aqua vitae]

So it's in fact perforated plates not bubble plates?

[Austin Nichols]

So it's in fact perforated plates not bubble plates?

Yes perforated, sorry bout that...

[Kentucky shinner]

they are all bubble plates... one is perforated, one is bubble cap, and the other is valve plate... They all bubble..

[aqua vitae]

Some would say there is a distinctive difference. But this has been argued about before so let's not go there again.

I was just curious about bubble plate designs, hence my question.

[olddog]

The original Flute was designed to be built by anyone with basic tools, and moderate skills. The perforated plate was used as the easiest to fabricate, other choices are available, eg: bubble caps, valve plates etc, its just a personal choice dependant on your choice and skill level.


OD

[moonshiner dave]

I finally got mine about halfway shined up and posted some pics in the "flute family reunion" thread if anyone is interested. Boy I like copper, it's purdy.

[prdbrissy]

I finally got mine about halfway shined up and posted some pics in the "flute family reunion" thread if anyone is interested. Boy I like copper, it's purdy.

I would love to have a look
Where do I find this thread?

Regards

[olddog]

Here http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 3#p6873773



OD

[LWTCS]

Aw moonshinedave, she is beautiful. Recon I'm more partial to a 3 plater too.

Use it in good health

[moonshiner dave]

Thank you.

[Austin Nichols]

Well the vinager run went quite well, so I'll run a wash through it in the morning and see how it goes.

I'll post up another topic though, it's not really a flute is it, the only resemblance is that it has some bubble plates and I'm not really sure what I should call it.....

Cheers.

[Ben Stillin]

Question for you OD

the single 3 way valve design, does it work like this picture shows or is it plumbed in some other way. I have placed it on the exhaust and it regulates which condenser gets more or less use of the exit. This keeps the condensers from running dry and it simultaneously reduces flow to the graham when the dephleg is active and vice verse.



please forgive the garbage rendering, I am not a great artist

[Izzy_Britton]

Question for you OD

the single 3 way valve design, does it work like this picture shows or is it plumbed in some other way. I have placed it on the exhaust and it regulates which condenser gets more or less use of the exit. This keeps the condensers from running dry and it simultaneously reduces flow to the graham when the dephleg is active and vice verse.



please forgive the garbage rendering, I am not a great artist

This too has had me scratching my head. OD can your possibly supply us with a detailed photo and an explanation. 2 valve vs. new 3 valve would be nice to see. I am still in the planning stages of my build but i do not fully understand the benefit of the 3 way valve, I am hoping a pic would better help my understanding.

Thanks in advance.

Iz