8% ABV in 6 hours

[hoochlover]

Your observation of temp might be accurate according to that study but I think you are shoehorning things to fit your theory. Autolysis takes time even under harsher conditions.

I agree it takes time. I'm not saying you have a 50% autolysis after 2 hours. I'm just saying there is autolysis on some level at all periods of fermentation. The quicker you remove the yeast from the solution the better off you will be, always. And there is a much higher autolysis as ABV increases. So if you're doing a 5% wash will it matter as much as a 10% wash? Nope, but it's still a good idea regardless, if you want a neutral.

But enough about you. Seven and a half hours ago I mixed up a batch as per your instructions. About five and a half hours later it started clearing so I filterd about an ounce through a 1 micron filter to get rid of the yeast.

Not crystal clear but a clear wash by common standards. The smell and taste of yeast is very strong and I hate to break it to you but a quick sip and I can taste the tails underneath all the funk from the yeast.

I would like to say that you get the speed and at least it isn't worse than a normal wash but I can't.

In comparison, I just racked a panela wash that took 3 days to ferment and I also just happened to siphon the sugar wash off of a jar in the fridge that has been sitting there, on the yeast cake, for about three weeks. Gave each of them a sip as well and they both taste better that the fast ferment wash.

That doesn't mean that this can't be a winner after going through a still but, this is what I can offer for now.

Thanks a lot for doing a test! I appreciate it. Did you degas it properly to remove the H2S and CO2? That's important to get a neutral smell and taste. If you could compare a fast ferment that has also rested for 3 days, it's a better comparison if you don't want to go to the effort needed to quickly cleanse a fast ferment. I think bentonite will get you clearer than your plate filter. I think you would have less yeast in your other samples you preferred which is giving you that impression.

[Bagasso]

I agree it takes time. I'm not saying you have a 50% autolysis after 2 hours. I'm just saying there is autolysis on some level at all periods of fermentation. The quicker you remove the yeast from the solution the better off you will be, always.

You won't have 50% autolysis even after 2 weeks if the conditions are right. There is a lot of gray area.

Thanks a lot for doing a test! I appreciate it. Did you degas it properly to remove the H2S and CO2? That's important to get a neutral smell and taste.

No, I did not.

If you could compare a fast ferment that has also rested for 3 days, it's a better comparison if you don't want to go to he effort needed to quickly cleanse a fast ferment.I think you would have less yeast in your other samples you preferred which is giving you that impression.

The panela wash finished fermenting this morning. The sip was from the lees and the last bit of wash poured out of the fermentor with the yeast stirred up. It was a good comparison.

The other wash was a white sugar wash that had been sitting on the yeast for a few days at room temp and then the last bit, like I was doing for the panela wash, was transfered to a jar and placed in the fridge to clear and forgotten.

But, aside from the obvious yeast flavor, I can taste other congeners in the wash.

The yeast flavor isn't even really that bad. Cheesy and nutty. The very reason that it is used to make vegetarian cheese sauces but it isn't something most would want in their drink and it definitly isn't neutral.

[Bagasso]

Did you degas it properly to remove the H2S and CO2? That's important to get a neutral smell and taste...I think bentonite will get you clearer than your plate filter.

Was thinking about bentonite this morning and something clicked. Re-read what you are doing and I am now thinking that the results you are getting are probably due to aerating and filtering.

This thread is about the same but with ozone added into the mix ISU professor develops 'world's purest' vodka

Bentonite is an adsorbent, like activated carbon and aerating to remove VOCs works on regular ferments as well.

You are actually proving the advice offered, that a fast ferment needs to be treated to clean it up. I guess people just don't see the need for a 6 hour ferment that you have to spend time treating only to get the same results from something that you set and pretty much forget for a week or so.

[jb-texshine]

+1 bagasso
yes adding shit tons of nutrients to it will make it finish super fast JUST LIKE TURBO YEAST.but who cares if its done in 6 or 24 if you got put extra time and or money or effort to get it cleaned up to run. Why is speed so important anyway? Hell ,just get about a dozen fermenters and start a wash every day for two weeks or so and don't start running the first one until the day you start the last ferment. Then you will be running a wash a day and starting it over everyday... That would be great for someone looking to sell booze but that is totally unacceptable... So...i ask again,Why the need for such speed?
Jb
(all suspicious and shit)

[ranger_ric]

+1 JB & Bagasso..
When is someone going to make a distilled beverage off of this tripe?? This is a distillation site and we are all gung ho for fermentations tips... But Turbos have been disproven for drinkin likker and this thread is really starting to look like an experiment that never happened to prove results you always wanted.
RUN SOME WASH !! kinda reminds me of grandma's sayin.... It will all come out in the wash... (however growin up I never imagined THIS kind of wash!!)

Carry On
RR

[Bagasso]

I let the wash sit in the fridge over night and pulled the cleared wash off the yeast and filtered. There was a lot less yeast smell and flavor but that could have been due to the lower temp. Here is what it looked like. The jar was cold and it seems hazy from condensation.

I tried to wok still it, since there were only about 300ml@5%ABV but, it seems that I didn't seal right because I didn't "seem" to collect anything and I caught a slight smell of wash at one point. Turned off the heat and let it cool. Noob move with the wok still, I tipped the lid to catch any condensate on it and spilled water into the collection vessel. That is why the seem above is in quotes. The thing is that the liquid tasted just like water so it would "seem" that I didn't collect anything.

Another thing I noted was that the backset seemed even less yeasty then when it went in and at this point it was a little warm. That would rule out low temps as the reason why that would seem to be lower.

I did place a copper ring to place the ceramic bowl that I was using to catch the distillate. Wondering what effect that had.

Plan on doing a larger wash and stilling. Don't have bentonite and aerating produced too much foam, reaching the top of the bottle in less than a minute so, I won't be doing either.

[hoochlover]

Did you degas it properly to remove the H2S and CO2? That's important to get a neutral smell and taste...I think bentonite will get you clearer than your plate filter.

Was thinking about bentonite this morning and something clicked. Re-read what you are doing and I am now thinking that the results you are getting are probably due to aerating and filtering.

This thread is about the same but with ozone added into the mix ISU professor develops 'world's purest' vodka

Bentonite is an adsorbent, like activated carbon and aerating to remove VOCs works on regular ferments as well.

You are actually proving the advice offered, that a fast ferment needs to be treated to clean it up. I guess people just don't see the need for a 6 hour ferment that you have to spend time treating only to get the same results from something that you set and pretty much forget for a week or so.

I wasn't talking about aeration with oxygen actually, I would do it in a sealed container and just pump the wash through until it agitates it enough to release the bubbles. This should work well without opening it up to oxygenation which I thought would be bad. But perhaps there is an alternative to this like using ozone thanks for that link which seems to suggest the oxygenation that happens won't be that bad for the wash. I'm still gaining experience on wash cleaning so if you have any other links or information on this subject I would love to see them.

In regards to a fast ferment needing "more" I don't know if this is true. You are not comparing apples to apples here. If you let a slow ferment rest for days then you need to let the fast ferment rest for days to get the same settling effect. It isn't more "dirty" . A slower ferment will release more gas over time, so it's also a measure of time not the yeast activity alone, the more time the more degassing and settling. So you can let a fast ferment rest and you should see similar results to slow ferments given same time. However if you do this then you lose all speed advantages you gain so it's not really worth it to put more yeast in.

This is why I want a fast way to clear it to maintain speed and purity throughout. Benzonite is actually a very clean stripper as it's just a clay and doesn't react with water or ethanol. The likelihood of it breaking down or adding anything to the wash is quite low, provided you can get it all out.It also should not distil out. In the right doses you can get the wash looking like water using it. Like I said before it's not purely about being the cleanest way to do a wash, it's also about speed. Even though if you have less total congeners in there then you need to use less benzonite, less carbon, ozone, etc to purify. If I can make that system that gets me a near perfect neutral in 14 hours total time including distillation I like that. You can't do this using turbo yeast because it's full of crap you don't want in there and it isn't as fast unless you use a lot of them.

Thank you for doing your tests and presenting some data.

[hoochlover]

+1 bagasso
yes adding shit tons of nutrients to it will make it finish super fast JUST LIKE TURBO YEAST.but who cares if its done in 6 or 24 if you got put extra time and or money or effort to get it cleaned up to run. Why is speed so important anyway? Hell ,just get about a dozen fermenters and start a wash every day for two weeks or so and don't start running the first one until the day you start the last ferment. Then you will be running a wash a day and starting it over everyday... That would be great for someone looking to sell booze but that is totally unacceptable... So...i ask again,Why the need for such speed?
Jb
(all suspicious and shit)

My method doesn't necessarily add a lot of nutrients (unless you consider yeast a nutrient). All the method I've proposed here does is pitch a high amount of yeast at an ideal temperature to kickstart fermentation. In the ideal situation you would end up with a cleaner wash and a much quicker fermentation. Why would either of those two things not be wanted by some people?

I think the slow ferment options most people do is probably the "easiest" way to go, as it requires less work as you just rely on time and gravity instead. If that's what you like to do then do it, but at least for me I like having the option. I like the idea of pulling out my equipment maybe once a month or something like that and doing a batch in a day rather than waiting a week or more. It's also good if for some reason you are lazy and have a get together coming up the next day, it's just convenient I think having the option.

I don't think a fast ferment is ideal for selling booze as it would cost more than the typical method, but I don't know all the numbers involved to make an educated guess on that.

[hoochlover]

+1 JB & Bagasso..
When is someone going to make a distilled beverage off of this tripe?? This is a distillation site and we are all gung ho for fermentations tips... But Turbos have been disproven for drinkin likker and this thread is really starting to look like an experiment that never happened to prove results you always wanted.
RUN SOME WASH !! kinda reminds me of grandma's sayin.... It will all come out in the wash... (however growin up I never imagined THIS kind of wash!!)

Carry On
RR

Hehe well I would never use a turbo yeast again unless its for testing purposes. That stuff is so foul and doesn't compare to a fast ferment as proposed in this thread. They have additives in that stuff to help speed up reproduction, and too much of a lot of them to ensure it, which is why the end product is so foul. You usually have the same amount of reproduction as a normal brew, but with all the other crap in there the congener count goes up a lot higher. Though I don't have much besides anecdotal evidence to back that claim up, I think anyone who has run a turbo yeast has smelt the end product and knows what I'm talking about. The method proposed in this thread is about limiting reproduction, and congener count, by pitching large amounts of yeast.

As to me distilling a large batch that is coming. I'm not set up for it yet but anyone else here is welcome to try if they impatient. Only takes a couple hours and a couple dollars, just be sure you understand what a fast ferment means by reading through this thread first and knowing what is needed before distilling if you don't want to let it rest like a normal ferment.

[Bagasso]

I wasn't talking about aeration with oxygen actually, I would do it in a sealed container and just pump the wash through until it agitates it enough to release the bubbles.

Neither was I. VOCs don't care how you shake them out of the liquid. The point was that it isn't the ferment that is giving you a clean wash, it's the treatments afterwards.

In regards to a fast ferment needing "more" I don't know if this is true. You are not comparing apples to apples here. If you let a slow ferment rest for days then you need to let the fast ferment rest for days to get the same settling effect.

Did you miss the part about the panela wash having just finished? It hadn't sat for days.

Benzonite is actually a very clean stripper as it's just a clay and doesn't react with water or ethanol. The likelihood of it breaking down or adding anything to the wash is quite low, provided you can get it all out.

That wasn't what I was saying. Did you see the link I posted? Bentonite acts like a filter.

My point was that the wash isn't necesarily fermenting clean. It is being cleaned afterwards. We still don't know what is going to end up coming off a still but even if it is good, all you are getting is a faster ferment.

People have been talking about piggyback ferments, like ujsm, and commenting how each generation seems to get better. Seems to me they are doing this, large amounts of yeast with as little growth as possible.

So, yeah, there might be something to it but, I have yet to hear someone say that they have a neutral coming out of the fermentor.

[hoochlover]

My point was that the wash isn't necesarily fermenting clean. It is being cleaned afterwards. We still don't know what is going to end up coming off a still but even if it is good, all you are getting is a faster ferment.

People have been talking about piggyback ferments, like ujsm, and commenting how each generation seems to get better. Seems to me they are doing this, large amounts of yeast with as little growth as possible.

So, yeah, there might be something to it but, I have yet to hear someone say that they have a neutral coming out of the fermentor.

Yes you are right that unless the wash is tested untreated and compared to another untreated wash it would be difficult to find out if its cleaner alone. But you could still compare two treated washes the same and look at what you get. Nearly everyone treats their wash to some extent before 'stilling, whether they leave it to gravity, bentonite, chilling, etc.

There is still the big thing about being able to go from fermentation in the morning to 8-10% ABV wash by afternoon. Cleaner or not.

[Bagasso]

Yes you are right that unless the wash is tested untreated and compared to another untreated wash it would be difficult to find out if its cleaner alone. But you could still compare two treated washes the same and look at what you get.

Not sure what you mean. The comparison that I have in mind is a regular wash with an untreated 6 hour batch. The 6 hour batch looses in that comparison.

There is still the big thing about being able to go from fermentation in the morning to 8-10% ABV wash by afternoon. Cleaner or not.

I know that that seems to be a big thing for you but, others have said it and I agree with them, it isn't that big of a thing.

"Because I can" is a good enough reason in my book but, you dont' even know if you are getting a "clean" wash, unless you have actually run a batch and forgot to share the results.

[GrassHopper]

So, the way I understand it.....if I degas meself properly to remove the H2S., then shake the crap out of the VOCs, then the CO2 expelled will get to that all important neutral smell in less than 6 hrs and then.....god forbid anyone would taste it. Did I get it right?

[hoochlover]

So, the way I understand it.....if I degas meself properly to remove the H2S., then shake the crap out of the VOCs, then the CO2 expelled will get to that all important neutral smell in less than 6 hrs and then.....god forbid anyone would taste it. Did I get it right?

No, you should also run some bentonite in there to help settle quicker, the quicker you can get the yeast from the wash the better off you will be for a neutral provided you can filter existing yeast to a high level. You can also use a centrifuge if you have one. They aren't too hard to build on the cheap for smaller batches. But for neutrals I think bentonite is the best thing you can use since it also absorbs proteins, oils and other shit in the brew that a centrifuge may not.

[hoochlover]

Yes you are right that unless the wash is tested untreated and compared to another untreated wash it would be difficult to find out if its cleaner alone. But you could still compare two treated washes the same and look at what you get.

Not sure what you mean. The comparison that I have in mind is a regular wash with an untreated 6 hour batch. The 6 hour batch looses in that comparison.

There is still the big thing about being able to go from fermentation in the morning to 8-10% ABV wash by afternoon. Cleaner or not.

I know that that seems to be a big thing for you but, others have said it and I agree with them, it isn't that big of a thing.

"Because I can" is a good enough reason in my book but, you dont' even know if you are getting a "clean" wash, unless you have actually run a batch and forgot to share the results.

I see no reason why it won't be cleaner as all studies and evidence I have seen (outside of anecdotal) points to it reducing most cogeners. I will be running a 40 to 80 litre batch very soon and will post reports on it. I've nearly, finally got my vodka still ready. I hope my smaller tests are replicated in the larger sample, some differences exist in containers and such but I can't see why it shouldn't.

I know in one of your tests when you filtered through the 1um filter you could taste tails easily compared to another brew but that is one thing the yeast may help clean up over the next few days in a normal settle. It also could have been the yeast that slipped through your filter that would otherwise have dropped and been able to be decanted in a gravity assisted filter. I haven't seen any plate filter get the wash cleaner than bentonite or a centrifuge. It should be as clear as water if you have done your job right. With the right amounts of bentonite you have a layer of "clay" and what looks like pure water sitting on it. Have you ended up playing around with bentonite yet? You mentioned you might.

I recently found that cat litter is often nearly pure bentonite. You can purify it in numerous ways too, so if anyone has trouble finding a source for it that is often an easy and cheap one! Funny too, "I cleared this with cat litter". For all anyone knows the stuff you can buy from ebay is likely this

[pfshine]

Who wants a yeast bomb cat shit vodka tonic?

[Bagasso]

I see no reason why it won't be cleaner as all studies and evidence I have seen (outside of anecdotal) points to it reducing most cogeners.

Not most congeners, just esters. There are many more congeners than esters.

I know in one of your tests when you filtered through the 1um filter you could taste tails easily compared to another brew but that is one thing the yeast may help clean up over the next few days in a normal settle.

Actually I'm finding out that my water might be a major contributer to what I have thought were tails for many years. Either way letting it sit never got rid of that so it would make no difference either way.

It also could have been the yeast that slipped through your filter that would otherwise have dropped and been able to be decanted in a gravity assisted filter. I haven't seen any plate filter get the wash cleaner than bentonite or a centrifuge. It should be as clear as water if you have done your job right.

It was. Maybe not cleaner than bentonite or a centrifuge but not yeast. Yeast cells are pretty large when compared to molecules that cause haze.

With the right amounts of bentonite you have a layer of "clay" and what looks like pure water sitting on it. Have you ended up playing around with bentonite yet? You mentioned you might.

No, I can't get my hands on any and the two or three different kinds of kitty litter that I have found have additives.

I don't feel the need for speed that you seem to have and I can get rid of esters with alkali so I am not seeing any advantage to the fast ferment.

[der wo]

1 point for Bagasso.
But anyway, even if hoochlovers experiment will be absolutely failed for practical use, I have learned a bit from it.

[hoochlover]

Not most congeners, just esters. There are many more congeners than esters.

Most certainly. However I just want you to be aware that if you had 100% healthy yeast there should be no reason why anyone in the neutral spirit world want anything other than a fast ferment, if all the other things were equal. Which I know they are not and therefore there is many reasons not to do a fast ferment.

One thing to consider in case you haven't is that in the real world we often have to use things like "instant dried yeast" which already contains a lot of dead yeast and other impurities. Using such things without proper purification can lead to more congeners not less. So it is a factor that needs to be properly controlled in any test.

No, I can't get my hands on any and the two or three different kinds of kitty litter that I have found have additives.

I don't feel the need for speed that you seem to have and I can get rid of esters with alkali so I am not seeing any advantage to the fast ferment.

I would be doing every filter aspect regardless of the wash speed anyhow. Because in the goal for neutral that's what I would personally do. So if best case I get a product that is exactly the same as a longer wash just faster then that is still good to me. I can see the case for people who don't filter and do all the other purification steps but I always do for a neutral. The fact I can do a wash so fast lowers risk for infection and gives me peace of mind.

In regards to alkali treatment you're talking about bicarb or sodium carbonate after a stripping run? I found that does wonders too but even when I have left it for weeks it still has left many undesirables. I've got about 10L of TPW 40% which has sat on bicarb for 3 months now that will be interesting to run in my still.

Are you aware of any research which has been done on adding bentonite *AFTER* the stripping run to help reduce tails? I suspect adding bentonite at this stage would help soak up some tails but have never tried it myself. I may split the 10L into a 5/5 batch and use bentonite on one.

[hoochlover]

Actually I'm finding out that my water might be a major contributer to what I have thought were tails for many years. Either way letting it sit never got rid of that so it would make no difference either way.

Just wanted to add that buying a sediment/carbon/reverse osmosis setup will be one of the best investments you make for your health and your brews health. I used to use the typical "water filters" you can buy in the stores, replacing cartridges every 2-3 weeks or whatever, it was quite expensive. Even a cheap reverse osmosis setup blows that out of the water and is much, much, cheaper in the longer term.

Once you've tasted RO water you will not want to use anything else again as It all tastes like shit in comparison to the purity you get with RO. My unit only cost around $300 but there were cheaper things too. You can put them on any house tap usually and away you go. I'm still on my first set of filters after 6 months and it's still purifying as well as it did at start, I have a tester unit for it too which tells you how many impurities are in it.

[Bagasso]

Most certainly. However I just want you to be aware that if you had 100% healthy yeast there should be no reason why anyone in the neutral spirit world want anything other than a fast ferment, if all the other things were equal. Which I know they are not and therefore there is many reasons not to do a fast ferment.

That is the theory but there is nothing to back that up.

I would be doing every filter aspect regardless of the wash speed anyhow. Because in the goal for neutral that's what I would personally do.

Me too, which is why I sent for an O2 generator and use AC. I would use bentonite if I could get my hands on it.

So if best case I get a product that is exactly the same as a longer wash just faster then that is still good to me.

I understand, that is why I pointed out that the opinion was based on my needs.

In regards to alkali treatment you're talking about bicarb or sodium carbonate after a stripping run? I found that does wonders too but even when I have left it for weeks it still has left many undesirables. I've got about 10L of TPW 40% which has sat on bicarb for 3 months now that will be interesting to run in my still.

Exactly my point. The undesirables are not all esters so neither alkali or a fast ferment are going to give you a "neutral" wash or low wines.

Are you aware of any research which has been done on adding bentonite *AFTER* the stripping run to help reduce tails? I suspect adding bentonite at this stage would help soak up some tails but have never tried it myself. I may split the 10L into a 5/5 batch and use bentonite on one.

No I have not but it probably would help. The thing is, would it be better than just making a tight tails cut using the right equipment?

Once you've tasted RO water you will not want to use anything else again as It all tastes like shit in comparison to the purity you get with RO.

I actually don't like the taste of RO water and prefer sediment/AC for drinking.

Says alot about how "good" can mean different things to different people.

[hoochlover]

No I have not but it probably would help. The thing is, would it be better than just making a tight tails cut using the right equipment?

Even with great equipment there is a certain amount of smearing, but with great equipment you are likely not going to be able to notice it too much. You should increase your hearts cut I feel by adding bentonite after the stripping run. I'll try it and see. Though since from now on I'll be bentonite'ing all my ~10% washes it will probably be the only test I will do on a normal stripped wash.

[der wo]

Are you aware of any research which has been done on adding bentonite *AFTER* the stripping run to help reduce tails? I suspect adding bentonite at this stage would help soak up some tails but have never tried it myself. I may split the 10L into a 5/5 batch and use bentonite on one.

Looong time ago I had some feints and added active carbon (pellets powder) and it did not settle after two weeks (today I think there was a problem with the carbon, but I'm not sure). For fun I tried Turboclear (first silica sol, then chitosan) and it worked for the one bottle, for the other not... After removing the most of the carbon from the bottom of the bottle, I added sodium carbonate in the greyish feints and Surprise! this removed the carbon dust, it settled.
What I want to say is, try it.
But we have one tool to reduce tails in low wines: active carbon. Did you ever try? If not, you don't have a comparision, if you have success with bentonite. I also tried bentonite-gelatine-silica sol. It was not better than without bentonite.
Btw did you try the other clearing agents for a wash? The fast and effective silica sol and gelatine clearing? In my experience more effective then bentonite.
Do you know the theory about clearing agents (the polarity and so on...)? Sorry I don't remember everything of your posts, probably you know that all.

For me up to now the fastes way for the most neutral neutral is:
-Fast fermentation speed (much yeast, not too low temperature)
-Clearing agents (silica sol and gelatine/chitosan). It needs 36h.
-Fast stripping
-Active carbon powder 10g/l low wines. Settling out needs a few days. Perhaps you could cut this step.
-Sodium carbonate 5g/l
-Spirit run
-Active carbon pipe
This will taste absolutely neutral but boring. I use such alcohol for vapor infused spirits or mazerations, but not for a vodka. For a vodka I would cut at least the carbon pipe.

[hoochlover]

Are you aware of any research which has been done on adding bentonite *AFTER* the stripping run to help reduce tails? I suspect adding bentonite at this stage would help soak up some tails but have never tried it myself. I may split the 10L into a 5/5 batch and use bentonite on one.

Looong time ago I had some feints and added active carbon (pellets powder) and it did not settle after two weeks (today I think there was a problem with the carbon, but I'm not sure). For fun I tried Turboclear (first silica sol, then chitosan) and it worked for the one bottle, for the other not... After removing the most of the carbon from the bottom of the bottle, I added sodium carbonate in the greyish feints and Surprise! this removed the carbon dust, it settled.
What I want to say is, try it.
But we have one tool to reduce tails in low wines: active carbon. Did you ever try? If not, you don't have a comparision, if you have success with bentonite. I also tried bentonite-gelatine-silica sol. It was not better than without bentonite.
Btw did you try the other clearing agents for a wash? The fast and effective silica sol and gelatine clearing? In my experience more effective then bentonite.
Do you know the theory about clearing agents (the polarity and so on...)? Sorry I don't remember everything of your posts, probably you know that all.

For me up to now the fastes way for the most neutral neutral is:
-Fast fermentation speed (much yeast, not too low temperature)
-Clearing agents (silica sol and gelatine/chitosan). It needs 36h.
-Fast stripping
-Active carbon powder 10g/l low wines. Settling out needs a few days. Perhaps you could cut this step.
-Sodium carbonate 5g/l
-Spirit run
-Active carbon pipe
This will taste absolutely neutral but boring. I use such alcohol for vapor infused spirits or mazerations, but not for a vodka. For a vodka I would cut at least the carbon pipe.

Hi der wo thanks for your post. I tried other clearing agents in the past like turboclear and gelatin, and some other "custom" things that didn't work well. Gelatin on its own was not good for a sugar wash. Bentonite for me was the best, I've never seen anything better than a pure clear liquid floating above an easy to decant clay layer. When I used turboclear it did clear things up nicely but it didn't compare to bentonite at all. I didn't have unlimited amount of turboclear, just enough for a 25L batch so maybe more would have done a better job.

I suggest you up your dosage of bentonite and see if you notice better results. With enough bentonite you only need about 1-2 hours for the entire thing to become two distinct layers of clear liquid and clay, of course this is somewhat dependent upon your container dimensions. Taller containers may need more time. Once you've done bentonite right nothing else compares for clearing a wash.

Thanks for your info on your best neutral too, I always at least double distil so I can put in the sodium bicarb (or carbonate) and let it sit for some days. I suspect that you won't need a final carbon filter if the bentonite does the job up front on the 10% wash. The most important thing when going through all this for a neutral is cleaning up that initial wash as much as you can because whatever you do there, pays dividends later on down the line.

The way I drink I am always mixing my neutral/vodka with something else so I want ilterally no taste from the neutral, the more boring the better for me.

[der wo]

Ok, I will try bentonite again. Yes, a good thing with bentonite is the more solid layer.
Bentonite 1-2h
Silica sol 1-2h
Sad, that both have the same polarity. Sad, that there is no clearing agent with opposite polarity working as fast.

In my experience the carbon pipe is a very powerful tool. There is much more room for taste after filtering.

Another looong time ago I did another experiment:
After producing boring ethanol with the pipe, I poured in some mazerated spirits (I think, it was sloes, hazelnut and apple), which I did not like. The carbon filtered everything out except the sugar (it tasted still sweet, but only like ethanol + sugar, no fruit taste at all) and there was a white cloudiness. Strange results.

[Bagasso]

Even with great equipment there is a certain amount of smearing, but with great equipment you are likely not going to be able to notice it too much.

I meant as a personal preference. Some people don't like the idea of using any filtering although I think that those using lava in their columns are actually doing just that.

[hoochlover]

Even with great equipment there is a certain amount of smearing, but with great equipment you are likely not going to be able to notice it too much.

I meant as a personal preference. Some people don't like the idea of using any filtering although I think that those using lava in their columns are actually doing just that.

Well a still is a filter, if they don't like filtering perhaps they should stick to beer.

[Bagasso]

Well a still is a filter, if they don't like filtering perhaps they should stick to beer.

Yeah that and the "I don't want chemicals in my likker" leave me a bit .

[hoochlover]

Well a still is a filter, if they don't like filtering perhaps they should stick to beer.

Yeah that and the "I don't want chemicals in my likker" leave me a bit .

Well to be fair to most people, they don't really care about chemistry enough to know what's going on so it probably seems spooky. That hesitation to do anything different than some people 100 years ago type thing is strongly alive. Which to me is fine if people are into recreating traditions, I think there is a place for that. But when they start to pass it off like its the best or only way to do something they can tend to sound a bit ignorant. But when you look at what we are interested in here, being alcoholics, I don't know if we shouldn't expect such things.

In regards to this topic I have 3kg (about 7 pounds) yeast ready, my fermenter ready, video camera ready, but my new still equipment which should have arrived two days ago is still not here. I bought some 2 inch gear to run my 2KW turbo boiler which hopefully should be enough power to get a semi liquid column with my SPP. My 3 inch column is still waiting for my better TIG welder and TIG welding skills, already ruined so much stainless trying to get something up to a high standard on my low range TIG welder. You can't go cheap with a TIG welder if you want to weld thin stainless.

I'm going to be running my 3 month old stripped stuff through the new still equipment first after a cleanse run. And while that is going on have my fast brew going in the large fermenter and then strip that down, which should be about 8 hours from the start of the whole process. So 6 hours brewing and 2 hours with bentonite should give me what I want, hopefully. I have a feeling with the larger container I may need more time for settling so it could take longer, wait and see I guess. Looks like a Tuesday thing at this stage.

[hoochlover]

I am in the process of doing a 10%, 25L batch with 1.1KG (2.4 pounds) of yeast. It has been 7 hours and it is still bubbling strong, it should last another hour or two before finishing hopefully if it mirrors my smaller tests. However I have lost at least 6L of product due to foaming. I used a 30L container and it just wasn't enough. Compared to my smaller batches there was a *LOT* more foam in this container, at least it was a lot more noticeable to me probably because there was no space for the foam. In the smaller tests the bottles I was using could get to a certain height whereby it would collapse on itself due to weight, but that didn't happen this time until it had lost 6L and 5 hours into the run. If I had an automatic stirring fermenter it would be completely fine, as long as I stirred it the foam was fine but I don't have such a thing.

I've got some videos of it pushing foam and CO2 through a blow off tube, it was way more violent than I figured it would be. The amount of CO2 it is pushing is just crazy, which proves the more yeast you use the quicker it runs through the sugar!