Oak, and Peat Smoked malted barley whiskey

[JellybeanCorncob]

I've been practicing with all grain lately and just finished a 80% malted barley, 20% peet smoked barley. I used Jimbo's AG recipe. I did two 10 gal mashes. First batch SG 1.049, second at 1.050. I used Safe US-05 yeast. When I strained The beer I had 8.5 gallons to distill in each run. Got a little over 2 gallons of low wines. I ran my spirit run slower than I usually do. I collected approximately 200 milliliters at a time and taking off about 200 milliliters of fourshots. Then I covered each jar with a napkin and let sit for 24 hours. The next day I made proper head- heart-tail cuts. Then I did something that I only red about here. I tasted every jar of tales The first jar was slight wet dog not tasty at all, but the second had no wet dog yucky tales smell or off tastes that I could tell. All the rest of the tales were nasty! I put that 200 milliliters in with my hearts. .
We'll see. I cut my hearts to 65% and my final volume of liquor is a little over 2.5 liters. Now, after all that, here is a question for those in the know. I know that people use used bourbon sticks or used bourbon sticks soaked in sherry to oak with. What I did was I used one stick 3/4 by 1 by 4 inch stick of white oak toasted and charred soaked in sherry for 3 weeks. After 3 days the color is already a beautiful honey color.

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My question is: Should I leave the oak in for a good long time and hope for the best? Or taste at at intervals until I have oak flavor I like then leave at 65% and age some more? Or take out the oak, proof down and age some more?
I'm afraid i'll lose the scotch flavor if I leave the oak in too long.
Thanks for any help you might shed on this issue.
J.C.

[still_stirrin]

It sounds tasty. Your processes are spot on. But now you need the hardest part of this hobby...patience.

The color will continue improve with time. And with it, the flavors will continue to balance and smooth into a very nice product. I would let it stay in glass with the wood in it at least 6 months (at cask strength too). When I do that, I will pull a small sample (10ml) periodically through time and temper back to 45% and taste to see the progression. When you've got plenty of color and flavor, then you can remove the sticks. But don't do it too soon. Give yourself at least 6 months. A year is probably not too long either. But you'll need patience.

In the meantime....do it again. Follow the same recipe and process and get the next one in glass. That way, when you actually can start pouring your own product you won't have to worry about running out right away.

Right on the mark. Great job.
ss

[der wo]

When it gets too dark, of course you have to take the stick out.
For me it looks like, that in a few months it will be much too dark for scotch. The stick should be smaller.
I would recommend you, to do something now, if you want to age it for example 6 months.

Used wood gives much less color and sweetness, but similar spiciness in my experience. So the sweet maltiness in scotch is not covered by the sweetness of the wood. Scotch with unused sticks will always taste too sweet after aging. In my opinion, there is no other way than first to age a few months something different. Or perhaps to leach out unused sticks a few times with boiling water, before use them in scotch.

[JellybeanCorncob]

Thanks for the encouragement Mr Stirring. I've got 5 liters of Odens Rye Bread Whiskey on oak now. 3 months on oak. And a bottle of finished rye bread that I'm enjoying now and a mix of flavored neutrals that I made with my boka last summer. So I have plenty of booze to keep me happy. I want to put these 2.5 liters away for a good long time. A year or more.
So Mr Wo: I was thinking the same thing about the sweetness. Do you think I should take the sticks out, cut them in half and boil them? And if so, how long of a boil? Will that help curb the sweet so the magic of the wood and charr can do there thing?
J.C.

[der wo]

Yes, try it (Stick in a jar, pouring boiling water in, waiting a few hours or a day, do it a few times until the color gets significantly lighter, then optional dip it a few hours in sherry). Or put it out and wait, until your rye bread is 6 months aged and then age the malt with the rye sticks...
Or perhaps it's not sooo absolutely important for you, that this malt ages under "original circumstances". Your next will. After a while you will have a shoebox full of used sticks (with notes like "light toast heavy char 6 months rye bread"). A malt whisky aged like bourbon tastes not really bad, but used and unused wood is one parameter, that your spirits vary greatly.
You can do what you want, the only really important thing is, that you put it out when it gets too dark, no matter after 1 or 6 months.

[JellybeanCorncob]

Thanks Mr Wo:
I'm gonna cut those little Peckers in half and boil those tannins right out.
Thanks for the suggestion. I 've done a few generations of ujssm. Turned out good but I didn't save the used oak sticks. I'm gonna start saving and labeling them. My cousin has a vineyard and winery 1 hour and 1/2 away. He gives me all the used French, and American oak staves from his used wine barrels I want for free.

[JellybeanCorncob]

I'm still wondering: when I get the color profile I like, and i take the oak out, is productive to leave it to age at oaking proof? 63-65% ABV. Will it still age and improve? Or do I proof down and bottle?
Thanks
J.C.

[der wo]

Yes it ages. But it doesn't age on wood.
The best way would be to say somethin like "I want to drink it in 6 months, then I want this color and taste, so that amount of wood wil bring me there." That's of course difficult. So I use smaller jars (1l) and each one needs more or less time. When a jar is finished, I dilute, filter and drink it. Or I pour it into other less colored jars. Or I mix a too dark jar with a too light one. Or I mix jars with sherry-sticks with jars with ex-bourbon-sticks. The more jars you have the more you can try out (charred uncharred light toast heavy toast sherry french oak american white oak...).

[JellybeanCorncob]

Thanks Der Wo
That's why it's hobby is so fascinating. A little science, a little experimenting, a little art, and a little luck sometimes.
Cheers
J. C.

[der wo]

Thanks Der Wo
That's why it's hobby is so fascinating. A little science, a little experimenting, a little art, and a little luck sometimes.
Cheers
J. C.

...and a little alcohol sometimes

[der wo]

and boil those tannins right out.

It's not about the tannins, it's about boiling out the easy soluble sugars, which make the first aging tasting too sweet for scotch.

[cuginosgrizzo]

It's not about the tannins, it's about boiling out the easy soluble sugars, which make the first aging tasting too sweet for scotch.

Hi dw, you would suggest the "boiling" procedure when exactly? with raw sticks, with toasted sticks or with toasted and charred sticks?

thanks

[der wo]

First of all the wood has to be seasoned. If you use wood from barrel staves, it is already seasoned. If not I would cut it in sticks, water it and change the water daily. This process can be accelerated by using hot water. That procedure is because of the tannins.

Then toasting and charring. This produces the sugar taste (and much more).

Now the sticks are ready for spirits like bourbon, where you traditionally use unused wood and like the sweet taste of it.
But if you want to use them for malt whisky, where traditionally used wood is used, either age with the sticks first another spirit or try to imitate this first aging by using hot water. First aging or the imitation reduces the sugar/caramell more than the spiciness in my experience (btw you can test it, if you compare a young bourbon with an old malt with the same color. The sweetness of the malt is maltiness from the grain, the sweetness of the bourbon is caramell from the wood).

If you want to imitate a malt whisky aged in ex-sherry barrels, cut sticks from a european oak wine barrel (because sherry staves are harder to find, at least in my country). Or other european oak, but then you have to season it. Then toast it (no charring) and after that leach it out with boiling water to imitate a many years first aging. Then soak it in sherry and age the malt with it. Or after leaching out with boiling water put it directly in the malt and add a little amount sherry (I think at the end it has the same result).

Probably you don't need the first leaching out before toasting, when you do it after toasting (if you want the sticks only for malt, not for bourbon), I don't know, I did not a comparision.

[JellybeanCorncob]

Ok
I think I get it now. Thanks for the more detailed advice!
J.C.