Grain flavors

[fqu8847]

This is my first attempts at any grains other than rice and sweet feed. I have been wondering about the different flavors of some of them so that I can make a grain bill for myself.
Here's what I've done:
Cornmeal mix-
4# sugar
5# cornmeal mix (Wally's brand)
5 gallon bucket
1 pk redstar montrachet 2 florastor probiotics

Oats-
2# 10oz rolled oats (Wally's brand)
5# sugar
Same as above

Wheat flour-
5# wheat (Wally's brand)
4# sugar
Same as above

Rice
5# sugar
3# white rice (Sam's 50# bag)
Premiere cuvee redstar yeast
Raisin slush (for nutrients)

Will see how it goes. Will post the procedure for mashing each later today.

[corene1]

This will be interesting to watch. I am thinking off the top of my head but, using sugar will change the flavor of the spirit quite a bit in my opinion and at 4 to 5 pounds of sugar per 5 gallons of water the ABV will be around 5 to 6 percent if it finishes out dry. Are you cooking the grains, or just using them for flavor. Cooking them can change the flavor profile also. I will usually try to do a ferment of the individual grain to see what the flavor profiles of the grain are. Even the difference of using a malted grain versus a grain that has been converted with liquid enzymes may have a slight variation in flavors. I too am doing an experiment. I have a 100% milo ferment going on right now to see what flavor profile milo has. I am looking forward to seeing some more responses.

[Bushman]

You can find almost all the answers to questions here on HD so I very seldom recommend books. This subject lends itself to a book I have, called Alt Whiskey's written by Darek Bell. In the book they offer over 60 recipes using alternate grains, craft beer ingredients, and smoked grains. I recommend this because setting up the grain bill proportions can be difficult. I like the book because I can make a few substitutions without truely inventing the recipe. Darek Bell is the owner of Corsair Distillery and has several locations. He is probably the one person that has experimented more with different grains than anyone in the world.

[bearriver]

You can find almost all the answers to questions here on HD so I very seldom recommend books. This subject lends itself to a book I have, called Alt Whiskey's written by Darek Bell. In the book they offer over 60 recipes using alternate grains, craft beer ingredients, and smoked grains. I recommend this because setting up the grain bill proportions can be difficult. I like the book because I can make a few substitutions without truely inventing the recipe. Darek Bell is the owner of Corsair Distillery and has several locations. He is probably the one person that has experimented more with different grains than anyone in the world.

+1 that is an amazing book and Corsair distilleries make amazing whiskies. You can find it on Amazon.

[fqu8847]

Will get that book!!!! Also... corene I am kind of cooking the grain (if steeping is considered cooking). I add 2 gallons of boiling water (temp of 209.4°) to each 5 gallon bucket.
Here is the process:
Add sugar and grains into 5 gallon bucket. Boil water and add to grains. Temp has been in 190's after this on each bucket.

Cover tightly with sleeping bag and let sit 2.5-3 hours.
Gelitanization is usually done when checking next.

Check temp. Wait until temp reaches 155°. Add powdered enzymes. 1 tbsp alpha amylase.
Cover and wait 1°.

Add gluco amylase and 2 crushed tabs beano when temp reaches 140°.

Cover again and let sit overnight.

Iodine test and temp check in the morning. (85°-94° temp variant between buckets) add yeast and ferment out.



While the sugar will no doubt change the flavor the grain should still be prevalent. This, hopefully, will give me some idea of the original taste of each. This will also allow me to practice my grain mashing while having something to drink at the end!!!
The sugar will be weaned away as I get better at conversion. I mean what's the point if I don't get any test subjects for the taste!

Will run these through a pot still of sorts. 5 gallon boiler, 14 inch loosely packed column, pencil lead sized stream. Has let me attain 150-170 proof on sugar washes, so I'm hoping this will result similar to a thumper being added.

[shadylane]

Just a suggestion.
I wouldn't add the sugar until after the grains have been mashed.

[shadylane]

This is the first time I heard of "redstar montrachet 2 florastor probiotics"
Is this what your taking about? Or is it montrachet wine yeast?

http://www.wholefoodsmagazine.com/suppl ... otic-yeast" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[fqu8847]

I may try adding the sugar later next time... didn't even think about that! And yes it's redstar montrachet yeast! Ad florastor probiotics. Boullardi strain of yeast. Have been told they work extremely well and bring out the grain in beer brewing.

[greggn]

It would be a better experiment to use the same yeast in all batches. It would be even betterer to use something other than wine yeasts in grain-based recipes.

[fqu8847]

I am using the same yeast in all of them. And as far as wine yeast goes I have found that to be (much like the grain taste itself) subjective. This just happens to be the yeast I chose. Supposedly brings out the fruityness, esters, and original constituents of red wine. Since I have more enjoyed the tastes of wine yeast over brewer's/distiller's yeast... I chose this strain. The probiotics were added (as I have read some use 2 strains to bring out more of the subtle flavors) to only promote the grain. Will it work? I have no idea. We shall see!!!

[greggn]

> I am using the same yeast in all of them.

You said you used Montrachet (saccharomyces cerevisiae) and Premier Cuvee (saccharomyces bayanus).

[fqu8847]

Oh I apologize on that one greggn. I did use premiere cuvee in the rice. Used DADY in rice one time and got "yeasty" flavors. (Or at least I thought so) In fear of this happening again, a close to neutral yeast for the rice was (in my opinion, which isn't much... just ask the wife) my option. Rice seems to be very delicate in flavor anyway, and didn't want to drown it out.

[Ridgeville Runner]

4=

[Ridgeville Runner]

Don't know how that got there, sorry

[fqu8847]

Update to all this... progress was made but due to surgery was not able to complete any but the last batch of cornmeal I made up. Finished out at 9% and made a decent drink. Will start again as soon as I can obtain the ingredients.