The Badmotivator Bain-Marie and Oak Barrel

Post by **Hillbilly Popstar** » Thu Feb 11, 2016 12:14 pm

Titebond III is a food safe wood glue.

Post by **MichiganCornhusker** » Thu Feb 11, 2016 12:20 pm

I don't think you will have trouble with the head staying in, but for added insurance, you could melt some beeswax and pour it into the joint where the wood meets the stainless. If you roll the "barrel" while you do it, it would make a nice little seal, like caulk, all around.

Really like this idea, ordering up some inserts today!

Post by **Badmotivator** » Thu Feb 11, 2016 12:46 pm

MichiganCornhusker wrote:I don't think you will have trouble with the head staying in, but for added insurance, you could melt some beeswax and pour it into the joint where the wood meets the stainless. If you roll the "barrel" while you do it, it would make a nice little seal, like caulk, all around.

Really like this idea, ordering up some inserts today!

Nice! That 's a great trick to have ready to go if you notice a little leak! Ordering some beeswax right now.

By the way, the stainless steel tap seals just fine without using the included silicone gaskets, washers, and nut, just by the swelling of the oak. I am editing a post above to include that info.

Post by **Hillbilly Popstar** » Thu Feb 11, 2016 12:48 pm

Or you could always just wrap a little Teflon tape around the outside and jam it in tite.

Post by **Hillbilly Popstar** » Thu Feb 11, 2016 12:48 pm

Wrap it and jam it...

That's what she said! Ha!

Post by **Badmotivator** » Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:20 pm

Leak repair:

The "leak" had actually already stopped itself weeks ago with dried sugars or whatever. I wasn't going to do anything about it until beeswax came up.

Post by **bearriver** » Thu Feb 11, 2016 3:22 pm

These are outstanding. Hopefully I will get to try this someday.

Wonderful craftsmanship and ingenuity Badmotivator!

Post by **Badmotivator** » Thu Feb 11, 2016 4:07 pm

Gluing the dowels:

Okay, a tiny amount of wood glue is probably fine but we can do better. Caramel was one suggestion, flour paste was another. I tested both.
Flour paste

Caramel

Results:
Flour paste, like a medium-thin papier-mache paste, works perfectly. After two hours or less I could not separate the test pieces by hand.

Caramel is a goddamned mess and I hate it. I burned myself, of course, and it hardened so fast I couldn't get the test pieces together.

Flour paste it is! I will edit the instructions to take this new information into account.

kiwi Bruce · Post by **kiwi Bruce** » Thu Feb 11, 2016 5:30 pm

If you think the head popping off or even coming slightly loose could be a problem, you could try something like this. The Bain-Marie insert has a raised lip and you could easily make a flat stock piece with two hooks to go over the edge of the insert, then wedge tapered oak pieces against the head and the flat stock. The flat stock will have some spring and guarantee the head will stay in place and stay tight.

P.S. I think you have come up with something quite brilliant with this idea here Badmo! Very very ingenious! Kiwi

kiwi Bruce · Post by **kiwi Bruce** » Thu Feb 11, 2016 5:45 pm

Suitable organic glue....I'd try simple egg white before I'd try some of the other more outrageous possibilities, like...Rabbit skin glue (a traditional furniture glue in the nineteenth century, and still available) or Isinglass (sturgeon, float bladder) You have me hooked on this idea and I'm going to give it a go. Kiwi

P.S. Checking out webstaurant.com Their 6qt is only $8.29 right now, I email them about the shipping.

Post by **Badmotivator** » Thu Feb 11, 2016 6:17 pm

kiwi Bruce wrote:You have me hooked on this idea and I'm going to give it a go. Kiwi

Hell yeah, KB! Post some pics if you get one made. Thanks also for the kind words. I'm pretty excited too! I am going to be using lots and lots of these, for one thing. But more significantly, it feels good to make a significant contribution to the home distiller's toolbox.

I really have no concerns about the heads popping off. It came up in the context of heating the barrel to simulate a warm climate. I'm going to test a BBOB half-full of water, heated up to 150F or so, just to put that to rest.

cob · Post by **cob** » Thu Feb 11, 2016 7:34 pm

BMV great work. great idea. the poor mans cooperage.

food for thought, with your off cuts you can make your own dowels, also a spout.

I didn't see any leakage at your joints but a tight tongue and groove joint could be insurance,

made with a router, table saw, Stanley #45 wood plane.

if you put your batten on the outside with stainless screws it could stay as a plaque holder.

stainless screws through the bain-marie could facilitate repairs (maybe).

a torch on the stainless (gently) will flow the bees wax.

remember prior to 150 years ago most everything was done by hand.

der wo · Post by **der wo** » Fri Feb 12, 2016 1:28 am

kiwi Bruce wrote:If you think the head popping off or even coming slightly loose could be a problem, you could try something like this. The Bain-Marie insert has a raised lip and you could easily make a flat stock piece with two hooks to go over the edge of the insert, then wedge tapered oak pieces against the head and the flat stock. The flat stock will have some spring and guarantee the head will stay in place and stay tight.

I fear, that with the years this would bend/deform the Bain-Marie. But I am sure, something in this direction would be my way, that I can sleep well at night. Something similar, but not clamped to the raised lips but perhaps the bottom. A chain all around the pot, pressing a woodblock in the middle of the wood lid and two turnbuckles to control the pressure.

Post by **cuginosgrizzo** » Fri Feb 12, 2016 1:39 am

kiwi Bruce wrote:P.S. Checking out webstaurant.com Their 6qt is only $8.29 right now, I email them about the shipping.

Lucky you. Here you can get 6 liter inserts for no less that 100€ + shipping!

Post by **Badmotivator** » Fri Feb 12, 2016 12:53 pm

I got two more BBOBs done today. Both are 4 qt cans. Lightly seasoned, toasted, and charred white oak heads. SS taps. White oak plugs. They are soaking now.

kiwi Bruce · Post by **kiwi Bruce** » Fri Feb 12, 2016 5:16 pm

Just superb, AND great pic's. Kiwi

Post by **Hillbilly Popstar** » Fri Feb 12, 2016 5:28 pm

Ok, those last set of pics make me really want to build some! It's a shame they need to be put a away for a year or more. They are really quite beautiful.

Post by **Badmotivator** » Fri Feb 12, 2016 5:34 pm

Hillbilly Popstar wrote:Ok, those last set of pics make me really want to build some! It's a shame they need to be put a away for a year or more. They are really quite beautiful.

You can leave them out on the counter, Pop.

It's worth pointing out that when you drain these, they can be used again as an ex- barrel. For example, age bourbon in one, bottle the bourbon after a couple of years, then refill it with scotch (ex-bourbon barrel) and leave it for a bunch more years. Also, when it's time to retire the wood, the expense for replacing the wood is going to be like $4 and some shop time. Not bad.

Just think, if you put one or two of these up every month, down the road you've got a serious, no compromises treat coming your way.

Post by **Badmotivator** » Sat Feb 13, 2016 4:41 pm

After 1 day of soaking, the BBOB on the left is still leaking, but the one on the right is pretty well sealed.

Back upright and refilled with water for another day of soaking.

Post by **Yummyrum** » Sun Feb 14, 2016 1:02 am

Gezz they look bloody beauty Badmo .

I hope they seal soon .
What volume are they in liters ...not real good with all this Quarts stuff

Been keeping my eye out this week for these Bain-Marie things , so far haven't found anything . Might have to visit a kitchen shop . Theres got to be something SS in those shops

Post by **still_stirrin** » Sun Feb 14, 2016 6:18 am

Yummyrum wrote:...keeping my eye out this week for these Bain-Marie things , so far haven't found anything...

Here's one: https://www.katom.com/175-78820.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Post by **Badmotivator** » Sun Feb 14, 2016 10:29 am

Leak test on those latest two BBOBs shows improvement over yesterday, but neither one is completely tight yet.

I am working on some ideas about how best to toast the oak. My goal (I think) is a deep toast that penetrates about halfway through the wood, and no toast at all on the outside half of the wood. My hunch is that untoasted wood swells better than toasted wood does. Testing that now.

The wood I have toasted so far was done in an oven over a couple of hours at about 425°F. That'll free up some vanillin! But no barrel-maker does this, of course.

kiwi Bruce · Post by **kiwi Bruce** » Sun Feb 14, 2016 10:49 am

I was using the staves from a bourbon barrel to age my scotch and made the mistake of using the staves from the head. The head staves are not toasted as heavily as the body staves for fear of them leaking. I came very close to not being able to use the whisky it was so tannic. So... be careful with the char on the head. Kiwi

Post by **Badmotivator** » Sun Feb 14, 2016 11:04 am

kiwi Bruce wrote:I was using the staves from a bourbon barrel to age my scotch and made the mistake of using the staves from the head. The head staves are not toasted as heavily as the body staves for fear of them leaking. I came very close to not being able to use the whisky it was so tannic. So... be careful with the char on the head. Kiwi

Interesting. So toasting reduces tannins? Does that lend support to the idea that a deep toast is probably desirable?

kiwi Bruce · Post by **kiwi Bruce** » Sun Feb 14, 2016 11:20 am

Yes, it has to be. We have someone on HD who was a copper, I'll look up his handle and post it here. He would definitely know.

der wo · Post by **der wo** » Sun Feb 14, 2016 11:24 am

The most bourbon barrel wood is only toasted while the bending process. If you look at JD-smoking wood, it doesn't look toasted at all. But there are some brands, which point out, that their barrels are extra toasted before the charring in contrast to the most other bourbon barrels. Woodford for example.
All my trials with sticks taste more like deep toast. I will try next time no or almost no toast to get the other flavors.

Edit: More about sticks, but anyway a very good article:
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6597

Sun Feb 14, 2016 11:38 am

kiwi Bruce wrote:Yes, it has to be. We have someone on HD who was a copper, I look up his handle and post it here. He would definitely know.

Scout

kiwi Bruce · Post by **kiwi Bruce** » Sun Feb 14, 2016 2:43 pm

Thank you SCD your right it's Scott.

gr8brewer · Post by **gr8brewer** » Sun Feb 14, 2016 3:18 pm

Seriously I'm always impressed by the ingenuity and collaboration that goes on here.

I think even wine maker's would be interested in these.

Post by **Badmotivator** » Tue Feb 16, 2016 6:09 pm

Always learning!

Well, the latest two BBOBs failed to seal. One was weepy, the other was drippy. I tried sealing the outside edge with beeswax but it was not a complete fix.

My best guess right now is that I over – toasted the wood, leaving it less able to swell. I had those wood blocks in the oven for like 2 or 3 hours at 425F. Way too much.

I did a small 2-day-soak test with some blocks of oak, and indeed, the untoasted wood gained about 2% width whereas the thoroughly-toasted offcut from these BBOBs didn't change dimension at all.

More tests and refinements to follow.

Home Distiller