Aging! Don't much like it for me, but ......

[Sgt-Greywolf]

........but, would sure like to see my shine age with some character. Need some advice boys. I've read about everything I can find hereabouts, put it I to practice and continue to get bitter shine. I was using my own oak, but learned that I toasted it all wrong. I started using JD smoking chips and that mellowed the bitter a bit, but it's still there at 3 weeks into the aging. Then bought some medium toast oak cubes from a local brew shop, put them in, and now a month into the aging, more bitter ... or maybe it's more bitterer. I do stress it, from fridge to room temp and back each day, am I stressing it out? It's stressing me out!!!! need some Sagely advice from you fellas.

[rager]

aging takes more than 3 or 4 weeks.

does it have th bitter taste before you add oak

what are you making?

find some proper age white oak, make some more and come back to those in 6-12 months

good luck

[bitter]

For me 3-4 months is the minimumfor aging not got past about 9 months yet but its way better then than early one... If I ever get a 12 year old will let you know

Is it bitter from the start? If so might be something in your recipe or process that is an easy fix.

What recipe?
What fermentation Temperature?
What yeast? Yeast Starter?
You air rate your wash?
You using backset in next batch? If so how much?
What distillation procedure you using? Strip then spirit run? Type of still?
What are your cuts like? Maybe narrower cuts will help.

B

[NZChris]

Bitter, or tannin? Soaking in water first will get rid of some of the tannin.

Either way, 3 weeks is hardly 'aging'. If you want to drink it that young, you might be better to do a narrow cut and drink it as white dog.
Maybe put down three large ferments in quick succession.
One white dog to keep you in drinking likker.
One for aging.
Then another quicky to keep your mitts off your aging likker.
This is assuming that you are making something worth aging in the first place

[shadylane]

Bitter, or tannin? Soaking in water first will get rid of some of the tannin.

Either way, 3 weeks is hardly 'aging'. If you want to drink it that young, you might be better to do a narrow cut and drink it as white dog.
Maybe put down three large ferments in quick succession.
One white dog to keep you in drinking likker.
One for aging.
Then another quicky to keep your mitts off your aging likker.
This is assuming that you are making something worth aging in the first place

+1, 2 or 3

[bentstick]

2-3 yrs in a barrel (5 Gal/20 liter) does wonders,ya be surprised the change it goes through,have one going on 3.5 and waiting for overoaking not happened yet!

[sungazer]

Even some information about the comment about "you toasted your oak all wrong". There is a large variety of toasting levels but I have never heard of a way to do it wrong.

[Truckinbutch]

Ageing means old , not stale . I'm fond of my white dog too . Follow the advice you have been given to produce enough to keep your dick skinners off what is ageing . Just like a ferment . The more you keep your fingers out of it , the better it will do .

[bentstick]

Oh whitedog makes ya smile also, more drank white than brown!

[hellbilly007]

I left a quart of 4th gen UJSM on JD chips for 8 months (forgot about it). That has been my best yet. Give it time. You'll thank yourself later.

Bentstick or anyone else who this may apply to, are you topping off your 20 L barrel as the angels take their share? Solara-ish?

[bentstick]

No hellbilly,usally just wait until I empty then refill if need be I have added some dominoes into the barrel to help with the diminishing oaking process

[Sgt-Greywolf]

For me 3-4 months is the minimumfor aging not got past about 9 months yet but its way better then than early one... If I ever get a 12 year old will let you know

Is it bitter from the start? If so might be something in your recipe or process that is an easy fix.

What recipe?
What fermentation Temperature?
What yeast? Yeast Starter?
You air rate your wash?
You using backset in next batch? If so how much?
What distillation procedure you using? Strip then spirit run? Type of still?
What are your cuts like? Maybe narrower cuts will help.

B

The recipe I'm using is a sweet feed/sugar. The sweet feed is locally produced, oats, corn, Wheat and molasses. All grain, no additives. White cane sugar. Fermentation temp fluctuated between 78 and 82f. Using Red Star distillers yeast. Finished with a 9% wash. No stripping run, didn't use backset. Have a 5 gallon pot still. I've tried to be stingy with my cuts and the White dog doesn't seem to bitter at all. Even the quart I put to rest with JD smoking chips has a slightly bitter taste (about a month old). I used about a tablespoon of oak per quart. I assume that there is no time during the aging process that it should be bitter at all and that it will go away on itsown!?!

[Sgt-Greywolf]

Even some information about the comment about "you toasted your oak all wrong". There is a large variety of toasting levels but I have never heard of a way to do it wrong.

Used a convection oven, wrapped up the pieces in tin foil, cooked them at 450 for a couple hours. Read somewhere else that convection ovens shouldn't be used?? So bought some medium toasted oak cubes from a brew shop. Still getting bitter.

[still_stirrin]

...Used a convection oven, wrapped up the pieces in tin foil, cooked them at 450 for a couple hours. Read somewhere else that convection ovens shouldn't be used??...

I use a convection oven too. Wrap the wood in tin foil too. I toast at 380*F for 120 minutes. I haven't experienced residual bitterness.
ss

[Coyote]

Read below,

Speed and greed have no place in this hobby

Slow down

My sweet feed normally ferments for 2 to 4 weeks with a couple of quick stirs in the
First two weeks.

Gallon glass jars, six to eight pieces of 1" X 1" X 8" charred oak, cinnomon stick, half a stick of
Valina bean and four months in the shop

Give it a try

Coyote

[Sgt-Greywolf]

...Used a convection oven, wrapped up the pieces in tin foil, cooked them at 450 for a couple hours. Read somewhere else that convection ovens shouldn't be used??...

I use a convection oven too. Wrap the wood in tin foil too. I toast at 380*F for 120 minutes. I haven't experienced residual bitterness.
ss

Hmmmmm?! I'm using oak from my own tree. I'm using a large branch that Ive cut into 1x1x6 inch pieces. Should I be using a tree that I can the Heartwood (from the trunk)? Does that make a difference?

[Coyote]

Heart wood is always the best, I use old whiskey or in a pinch old wine barrels

Coyote

[Sgt-Greywolf]

Read below,

Speed and greed have no place in this hobby

Slow down

My sweet feed normally ferments for 2 to 4 weeks with a couple of quick stirs in the
First two weeks.

Gallon glass jars, six to eight pieces of 1" X 1" X 8" charred oak, cinnomon stick, half a stick of
Valina bean and four months in the shop

Give it a try

Coyote

My sweet feed is done fermenting within 5 or 6 days. I then let it set for a few days in a cooler environment to let things settle, then I rack it off into another car boy and let it settle again for a few more days. Then into the still. From a 4 1/2 gallon wash, I'll get about a quart of drinkable product after cuts for aging. I've been using about a tablespoon quantity of oak to age the quart.

[Sgt-Greywolf]

Heart wood is always the best, I use old whiskey or in a pinch old wine barrels

Coyote

What about JD smoking chips? I've been using them too, but it's still a bit bitter. Let me ask this, if I think I can't salvage what I've got aging right now, can I redistill that? Will the oak and bitterness come through if I run it all again?

[Hillbilly Popstar]

Yes
No

[Swedish Pride]

Was the oak seasoned? should sit out for a year to season after you cut it.
Did you add the JD chips to the already bitter Likker? Many use the chips, can't recall anyone reporting back a bitter taste, but i wouldn't expect the chips to save a bitter tasting likker either.
Yep rerunning it will clean it up, make sure to cut it down to below 40% ABV

[Sgt-Greywolf]

Yes
No

Hey Hillbilly Popstar, take a breath buddy, a simple answer is all I needed. thanks, 'preciate ya.

[Sgt-Greywolf]

Was the oak seasoned? should sit out for a year to season after you cut it.
Did you add the JD chips to the already bitter Likker? Many use the chips, can't recall anyone reporting back a bitter taste, but i wouldn't expect the chips to save a bitter tasting likker either.
Yep rerunning it will clean it up, make sure to cut it down to below 40% ABV

I'm thinking maybe that's what I should do, just pour it all back in the boiler, cut it down and run it through again.

[Hillbilly Popstar]

Yes
No

Hey Hillbilly Popstar, take a breath buddy, a simple answer is all I needed. thanks, 'preciate ya.

Well I'm new to this hobby.
I'm not qualified to give long answers. Lol

[Sgt-Greywolf]

Hell I'm still laughing! My Pap always told me the closest distance between two point is always a straight line. Don't reckon it can be any straighter than you made it! lol

[Bagasso]

This made me think that some of us are just SOL. I want so bad for this to be an indication of other things in a drink other than ethanol but I'm starting to lose hope.

Genetic variation influences how sweet or bitter alcohol tastes you

[Saltbush Bill]

Hmmmmm?! I'm using oak from my own tree.

Your the only person I know who consistently gets " Bitter" from ageing / oaking. If I were you I'd get some wood from a different source and try again. Some old Barrel staves would be a good place to start. If you can afford them or find them try some Medium toast American Oak Dominos , they will give you a reasonably good idea of what you are trying to achieve.

[Mikeinkaty]

I think all the white oak for barrels is heartwood that has been cured in a kiln using steam. Something about the steam drawing the sugars in the wood to the surface. How is the proper way to char the wood? I've heard of guys soaking pieces for a few days then laying them on top of glowing charcoal with the air vents almost closed. Just enough air to keep the charcoal going but not enough for the oak to start blazing. Mike

[NZChris]

No stripping run, didn't use backset.

There's your biggest problem right there. You are trying to steal a cut of drinking likker out of what many distillers call 'low wines'.

[Truckinbutch]

Hmmmmm?! I'm using oak from my own tree.

Your the only person I know who consistently gets " Bitter" from ageing / oaking. If I were you I'd get some wood from a different source and try again. Some old Barrel staves would be a good place to start. If you can afford them or find them try some Medium toast American Oak Dominos , they will give you a reasonably good idea of what you are trying to achieve.

Might be something to that . Around here the squirrel and turkey hunters lime and fertilize around specific oak trees to make the acorn crop more palatable to concentrate the critters to specific trees . Maybe your tree was undernourished .Just a thought ..........................